Jerry Macguire Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Just now, craigkillie said: It's all about the different consequences for the matches. The outstanding Scottish Cup games will be played after the 2020/21 season starts, probably long after. That is obviously not in any way feasible for the play-offs, since the league can't start if you don't know who is going to be in it. The Premiership season is likely to kick off far earlier than every other league so I don’t accept that argument as we don’t know when League 2 will start. They have put the limitation of playing in front of a crowd on themselves. No such limitation need to exist for the play offs. They could be played behind closed doors with the SFA footing the bill for the testing protocols they’re putting in place to allow the Premiership to kick off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said: TBH I’ve got no issues with any club using the media to highlight the injustice and sheer hypocrisy at play here. Kelty were bold enough to out the behind the scenes manipulation of the the LL board to accept Brechin if they were relegated. Despite it requiring a mid season rule change that as recently as last season the SFA advised them wasn’t permitted. (Sporting integrity) The inconsistency of the SPFL of relegating teams only if they remain within the SPFL structure demonstrates perfectly the closed shop protectionism at play here. The wads of cash comment is a bit pathetic at the end of the day; so long as clubs live within their means what they spend is up to them. What gets me is that the SFA can decide no matter what the 3 outstanding 2019/20 Scottish Cup games will be completed in front of fans and yet they can’t give the same commitment to 4 play off games. I’ll bet if given the option the majority of league 2 clubs will vote to mothball next season. Where does that leave the pyramid or sporting integrity? Brechin dodged a bullet fact. Instead of coming on here patronising Kelty fans perhaps a wee bit more humility on your part might not go a miss. No doubt Brechin dodged a bullet . No one is denying that and no one at Brechin would have shirked from the play off scenario if it was at all possible for the games to be played. I pointed out the impossibility of teams being able to complete the play offs with the same squad that ended the season . What is stopping any of the teams from improving their squad for the play offs ? Sporting integrity ? The behind the scenes manipulation you suggest was not proven . Yes Brechin enquired about the possibility of being accepted in the LL but any suggestion of bullying as was originally stated was completely thrown out of the water. Are you suggesting that Brechin should have been automatically relegated even though they were in a play off position ? That is how it appears and that is the media approach which led to members of the SPFL being personally harrassed on social media and on club statements. As for patronising , there was none so patronising as the comment I originally replied to. Adding strange assumptions like the one in bold further emphasises the fact I made about people making up their own agendas. I don't get the humility part. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said: No doubt Brechin dodged a bullet . No one is denying that and no one at Brechin would have shirked from the play off scenario if it was at all possible for the games to be played. I pointed out the impossibility of teams being able to complete the play offs with the same squad that ended the season . What is stopping any of the teams from improving their squad for the play offs ? Sporting integrity ? The behind the scenes manipulation you suggest was not proven . Yes Brechin enquired about the possibility of being accepted in the LL but any suggestion of bullying as was originally stated was completely thrown out of the water. Are you suggesting that Brechin should have been automatically relegated even though they were in a play off position ? That is how it appears and that is the media approach which led to members of the SPFL being personally harrassed on social media and on club statements. As for patronising , there was none so patronising as the comment I originally replied to. Adding strange assumptions like the one in bold further emphasises the fact I made about people making up their own agendas. I don't get the humility part. The issues over squad changes is the same for all clubs participating and it’s something the SFA are facing with the Scottish Cup but they are pressing ahead anyway. It is a fact as confirmed by the LL Chairman that the SPFL made veiled threats of losing their places in the Betfred and Tunnocks Cups if they didn’t play ball and allow Brechin to switch from the HL to the LL if relegated. You can spout not proven all you want but that’s the facts so try and throw that completely out the water. Is that bullying? I’ll leave that there for others to decide. Never once did I mentioned Brechin being automatically relegated so your making things up now. I’m not surprised you don’t get the humility part so let me clarify. You’ve won. You have a get out of jail free card. Despite Kelty and Brora earning their right for a shot at the title they will need to satisfy themselves with another season on the undercard. Try to put yourself in their shoes and then perhaps you’ll understand where these guys are coming from. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said: Never once did I mentioned Brechin being automatically relegated so your making things up now. 1 hour ago, Jerry Macguire said: The inconsistency of the SPFL of relegating teams only if they remain within the SPFL structure demonstrates perfectly the closed shop protectionism at play here. This was the bit I was wondering about. Can you explain what you mean . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said: This was the bit I was wondering about. Can you explain what you mean . It’s self explanatory are you pissed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, gogsy said: Keltys squad is all signed up for next season I think, don't think it would be a problem if Brechin signed a few ringers though. Somehow I think it would be a problem . ................Anyway , no guarantee Kelty would have been playing Brechin Edited June 5, 2020 by theoriginalhedge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 10 hours ago, Jerry Macguire said: It’s self explanatory are you pissed? It's actually not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, theoriginalhedge said: It's actually not. What isn't self explanatory is the fact you want to play Lowland League wtf is that all about? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, newcastle broon said: What isn't self explanatory is the fact you want to play Lowland League wtf is that all about? That suggestion was declined . Brechin have moved on without fuss. For the LL to hang on to this as their only stick to beat the SPFL with is pretty poor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, theoriginalhedge said: It's actually not. The SPFL protected Brechin by not putting their name forward as club 42 for the play off competition. Despite being happy to demote the bottom clubs from all divisions above. Protectionism. All 42 member clubs (happy or not) remain SPFL clubs. Simples. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said: That suggestion was declined . Brechin have moved on without fuss. For the LL to hang on to this as their only stick to beat the SPFL with is pretty poor. WTF does that mean that suggestion was declined? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbionMan Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said: The SPFL protected Brechin by not putting their name forward as club 42 for the play off competition. Despite being happy to demote the bottom clubs from all divisions above. Protectionism. All 42 member clubs (happy or not) remain SPFL clubs. Simples. It could also be said that HL/LL declined to hold a play off to determine tier 5's candidate, instead of which those clubs chose to tug at heart strings and suggest that both should move up. Edited June 6, 2020 by AlbionMan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said: The SPFL protected Brechin by not putting their name forward as club 42 for the play off competition. Despite being happy to demote the bottom clubs from all divisions above. Protectionism. All 42 member clubs (happy or not) remain SPFL clubs. Simples. Brechin were treated exactly the same as every other team in a relegation play-off position. You can be angry about the situation but at least be genuine enough to accept that Brechin were not in the same situation as Stranraer, Partick and Hearts. They were in the same position as Forfar, Queen of the South and Hamilton. Edited June 6, 2020 by Gordon EF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, AlbionMan said: It could also be said that HL/LL declined to hold a play off to determine tier 5's candidate, instead of which those clubs chose to tug at heart strings and suggest that both should move up. No it couldn’t. No such thing exists in the Highland region and in the LL region only one club was eligible for the play off so who the feck are they meant to play? The only decision made by the LL was increase to 17 clubs for one season so that they didn’t need to relegate Vale as they decided, quite rightly it would be unfair to do so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: Brechin were treated exactly the same as every other team in a relegation play-off position. You can be angry about the situation but at least be genuine enough to accept that Brechin were not in the same situation as Stranraer, Partick and Hearts. They were in the same position as Forfar, Queen of the South and Hamilton. They were bottom of their league. The big difference here is It wasn’t the SPFLs call to make. The SPFL play offs is their competition to do whatever they please. This play off is an SFA competition however and cannot be changed with the permission of all 4 bodies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, Jerry Macguire said: The SPFL protected Brechin by not putting their name forward as club 42 for the play off competition. Despite being happy to demote the bottom clubs from all divisions above. Protectionism. All 42 member clubs (happy or not) remain SPFL clubs. Simples. The main part you fail to mention or recognise is the Covid situation itself . Because of the uncertainty of when football can safely return it would have been virtually impractical to play these play off games , not only for the squad contract side of things but also for the social distancing issues faced in the smaller , cramped changing areas at the smaller grounds like ours. The most sensible decision in my mind would have been to promote 2 from each league at the outset. That would have given a feel good factor all round with no relegations at all and both Kelty and Brora getting a step up with no play off issues to deal with. If anything that is where the SPFL fucked up . The ridiculous reconstruction plans on the table now just shows how desperate the whole thing has become. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said: They were bottom of their league. Yep, which means a play-off position. All play-offs in the SPFL were cancelled. Quote The big difference here is It wasn’t the SPFLs call to make. The SPFL play offs is their competition to do whatever they please. This play off is an SFA competition however and cannot be changed with the permission of all 4 bodies. That's a fair point. I think that's one where there's no easy answer on what should be done 'morally' or legally. Brechin didn't really "finish" bottom of L2, Kelty didn't really "win" the LL and Brora didn't even win the HL. I think there's a decent argument to say that the normal rules are already out the window so can't really be used to argue we still need to have play-offs. For what it's worth, I would be in favour of bringing Brora and Kelty into an expanding SPFL and introducing automatic relegation from L2 so I'm not arguing from some anti-LL / SPFL protectionism angle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said: The main part you fail to mention or recognise is the Covid situation itself . Because of the uncertainty of when football can safely return it would have been virtually impractical to play these play off games , not only for the squad contract side of things but also for the social distancing issues faced in the smaller , cramped changing areas at the smaller grounds like ours. The most sensible decision in my mind would have been to promote 2 from each league at the outset. That would have given a feel good factor all round with no relegations at all and both Kelty and Brora getting a step up with no play off issues to deal with. If anything that is where the SPFL fucked up . The ridiculous reconstruction plans on the table now just shows how desperate the whole thing has become. I don’t disagree with you on this at all. That would have been the solution. But we do come back to the protectionism I keep talking about. The clubs would never have voted that through. More clubs means a smaller pay day when it comes to dishing out the TV money. What is clear to me if the Premiership is kicking off behind closed doors shortly and the other leagues are waiting to be able to kick off once crowds can be let into grounds again. A potential does exist for the play offs to take place behind closed doors. Perhaps switch them to a Premiership venue with all the testing and safety measures in place and cut them to 2 games instead of 4. You are right though the SPFL fucked up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: Yep, which means a play-off position. All play-offs in the SPFL were cancelled. That's a fair point. I think that's one where there's no easy answer on what should be done 'morally' or legally. Brechin didn't really "finish" bottom of L2, Kelty didn't really "win" the LL and Brora didn't even win the HL. I think there's a decent argument to say that the normal rules are already out the window so can't really be used to argue we still need to have play-offs. For what it's worth, I would be in favour of bringing Brora and Kelty into an expanding SPFL and introducing automatic relegation from L2 so I'm not arguing from some anti-LL / SPFL protectionism angle. FFS don’t let Celtic supporters hear you say that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, gogsy said: None of the other teams were actively lobbying to go in to a league of their choice if they were relegated, with their league threatening another league about access to cups if they didn't get their own way. Nope. Which doesn't change the point I was making at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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