Junior football formed 1886, now facing oblivion. Where did it all go wrong?

[A.M]

4 hours ago, Jason King said:

What is being sold?

If the SJFA had sold the product properly over the last decade or so we wouldn't be in the mess that we currently are.

If you read Burnies post you would understand my answer

[A.M]

4 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

That view seems to be prevalent down Talbot way.

You and others criticise those who highlight and debate the benefits of involvement in the Pyramid on this forum, yet are not prepared to counter this by highlighting the benefits of the Junior game, just snipe. Play the ball and not the man.

Snipe and criticise ? 

I only gave my view , nothing more , nothing less , me thinks you are paranoid 

[Burnie_man]

Snipe and criticise ? 
I only gave my view , nothing more , nothing less , me thinks you are paranoid 

Not paranoid just fed up of people having a dig, subtle or not, instead of actually offering up an alternative argument to the Pyramid and outlining why Junior is better in their opinion.

[Marten]

5 hours ago, A.M said:

Using your own words Marten, if not much would change , why move ?

I would imagine the biggest change to my teams fans would be travel, purely down to geography. Its one thing travelling on occasion for the junior cup but for it to become a regular thing ( which is possible if they went up through the leagues )

If there would be a LL with the best non-league clubs south of the Tay boundary, from what is now the LL, EoS, SoS & juniors, it would be dominated by central belt clubs. Clubs like Spartans, EK, East Stirlingshire, Selkirk, Auchinlek, Pollok, Kelty, Linlithgow etc. would make up that league. I can hardly imagine travel being a serious issue in such a league and for most leagues distances won't increase by much.

[Vollyman]

FFS have you seen the pish he posts on here and twitter fowk laugh at him and yer club but you have a problem with my post lol!!!!  Mibbee he does work hard for his club and nae criticism for that plenty fowk do that but he is an example of the backward thinking in the Juniors. Its embarrassing.

He really winds you guys up you take the bait everytime

[cmontheloknow]

15 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Not paranoid just fed up of people having a dig, subtle or not, instead of actually offering up an alternative argument to the Pyramid and outlining why Junior is better in their opinion.

As I see it, every benefit of Junior football will still exist within the pyramid. What could change is where clubs are within it, and the higher they go, the more likely they are to stray away from these benefits. However, that is a likelihood that will evade most. For most, nothing really will change and if there are changes, they may even be positive. The counter to that is 'well why change at all?' Because the change allows *some* to go to a new level. To me that's reason enough.

[Burnie_man]

As I see it, every benefit of Junior football will still exist within the pyramid. What could change is where clubs are within it, and the higher they go, the more likely they are to stray away from these benefits. However, that is a likelihood that will evade most. For most, nothing really will change and if there are changes, they may even be positive. The counter to that is 'well why change at all?' Because the change allows *some* to go to a new level. To me that's reason enough.

Yip good point

[A.M]

27 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Not paranoid just fed up of people having a dig, subtle or not, instead of actually offering up an alternative argument to the Pyramid and outlining why Junior is better in their opinion.

I am not arguing the juniors are better , I am saying I enjoy the juniors as they are and can’t see the big attraction to the pyramid, simply I haven’t been convinced the pyramid is better. 

[Marten]

13 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

As I see it, every benefit of Junior football will still exist within the pyramid. What could change is where clubs are within it, and the higher they go, the more likely they are to stray away from these benefits. However, that is a likelihood that will evade most. For most, nothing really will change and if there are changes, they may even be positive. The counter to that is 'well why change at all?' Because the change allows *some* to go to a new level. To me that's reason enough.

Yep, fully agreed on this. All advantages of junior football will still exist, yet due to the pyramid there is a far better system for clubs who want to move up to do so, while clubs who are happy to stay where they are don't have to worry.

[Burnie_man]

20 minutes ago, A.M said:

I am not arguing the juniors are better , I am saying I enjoy the juniors as they are and can’t see the big attraction to the pyramid, simply I haven’t been convinced the pyramid is better. 

Fair enough

[cmontheloknow]

30 minutes ago, A.M said:

I am not arguing the juniors are better , I am saying I enjoy the juniors as they are and can’t see the big attraction to the pyramid, simply I haven’t been convinced the pyramid is better. 

Alternate question then - is the grassroots game in Scotland as good as it can be and how can it be improved up on within the current structure?

[A.M]

35 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Alternate question then - is the grassroots game in Scotland as good as it can be and how can it be improved up on within the current structure?

I look around me and would say it is improving again with lots of kids playing football at all ages with much better facilities , here in Bonnyrigg there are hundreds of kids playing every night just up the road from me and even in Auchinleck ( a fairly small village ) there are kids of all ages playing that weren't there a few years back. In fact just on Saturday past a young lad became the first “academy” product to make his debut for Talbot. 

Listen , there is always room for improvement but that isn’t reserved just for the juniors I’m sure. 

[Ginaro]

58 minutes ago, A.M said:

I am not arguing the juniors are better , I am saying I enjoy the juniors as they are and can’t see the big attraction to the pyramid, simply I haven’t been convinced the pyramid is better. 

The big attraction is that if you are the Superleague winner (i.e. at the top of the Junior pyramid) then you have somewhere to go. For most Juniors the pyramid wouldn't change anything, but it would allow those clubs who wish to make upwards progress to move on - and also demote poorer clubs in the higher divisions. Clubs in the east such as Kelty or Bonnyrigg are leaving the Juniors because otherwise they cannot go higher (or get an SFA Licence).

And it's not whether the pyramid is better just now, it's about where it's going to be in relation to the Juniors as they continue to decline. Especially if a WoS league gets set up and say a dozen Juniors fill it.

[stevie2502]

Its quite simpe. clubs are under the illusion that the pyramid will make them a fortune. Whether it be grants etc. There is no way the sfa can afford to jus keep giving out money the way they have been to clubs to help them achieve their license the more clubs that put in for it.

[Dindeleux]

Firstly, and I say this as a fan of the Juniors and a (semi) regular attendee, there has been a lot of flak aimed at the Junior part of this forum for years regarding “junior thickos” but these threads about the possibly changes to the game at this level have given some of the most well thought out posts and discussions that I’ve seen on almost 13 years of this site.

Secondly, does anyone think that some fans will be pressuring their club to move away from Juniors into the pyramid simply because they don’t like the name Juniors and without really knowing the merit or implications of such a move? I ask this because, as noted on this thread, 12-18 months ago there was only a murmuring of the pyramid but plenty of passionate discussion around changing the name of the grade.

[San Starko Rover]

Using your own words Marten, if not much would change , why move ?

A fair question and for me the answer is simple, we’re all football teams, Celtic, Ayr, Pollock, Kelty, Blackburn. We all play the same game by the same rules. So why have an artificial divide? A year ago we had Kelty and Cowdenbeath 2 teams separated by only a few miles who could both be equal in terms of playing abilities but would never meet, next season they could be playing each other. There’s examples of this all over the country. Teams should find their natural level compared to all other teams. Clubs will rise and fall and play their peers.

[GLENAFTON93]

9 hours ago, RWcoach said:

Inability (or refusal?) to modernise with the times. 

Football played in mostly crumbling grounds, standard of football is still punt and hunt even for the higher divisions, ageing supports due to the Clubs not doing enough to attract younger people, self preservation of those in charge, self preservation of committees at clubs....I could go on.  Its sad, i still enjoy going to watch a game on a Saturday but the standard is rotten to watch and some of them are fairly well paid for what they actually give.

I'm involved in it but you just need to look at how Women's football has taken off in the last year or so and the content many of the top clubs offer in terms of fan involvement, highlights packages etc. Much of it done for nothing by dedicated volunteers interested in the game growing rather than as i say above - self preservation.

I'm sorry but there are many grounds that are not crumbling my own club for a start, and I would say we along with many others are not hunt and punt, a home game you will see many youngsters and have 4/5 teams at various ages under the Glenafton  name , and I would say the standard in the west premier is as good as any non league in Scotland,  if you look at the video forum on here there are many highlights done by dedicated volunteers for nothing, self preservation could be said about any grade. The Juniors are not perfect but who is, change is coming to an association over 100yrs old its taken a while , for the good well who knows.

[Hillonearth]

9 hours ago, RWcoach said:

Inability (or refusal?) to modernise with the times. 

Football played in mostly crumbling grounds, standard of football is still punt and hunt even for the higher divisions, ageing supports due to the Clubs not doing enough to attract younger people, self preservation of those in charge, self preservation of committees at clubs....I could go on.  Its sad, i still enjoy going to watch a game on a Saturday but the standard is rotten to watch and some of them are fairly well paid for what they actually give.

I'm involved in it but you just need to look at how Women's football has taken off in the last year or so and the content many of the top clubs offer in terms of fan involvement, highlights packages etc. Much of it done for nothing by dedicated volunteers interested in the game growing rather than as i say above - self preservation.

Much of it done for nothing by dedicated volunteers interested in the game growing ...I think you might have summed up the rationale behind anyone getting involved with any club at any level...trust me, no-one on a Junior committee's getting a wage out of what they do, it's purely for love of the game and love of the club.

For what it's worth I'd actually say the womens' game has gone slightly backwards rather than in leaps and bounds in the last few years both in terms of profile and attendances, and I'm saying that at someone who will take in a game of a Sunday now and again. Maybe five or six years ago the future looked quite promising, with the likes of Glasgow City pulling down a couple of hundred for home games before they made the ill-advised decision to decamp to Airdrie for a few years. I was at their first home of the season a few weeks back and there were maybe 60-70 there, and that's for the x-in-a-row champions. Lower down the food chain, it seems to be largely watched by friends and family of players.

 

[Glenconner]

1 hour ago, San Starko Rover said:

 

We all play the same game by the same rules. 

 

Have you been living in Antartica the last 6 years?

[San Starko Rover]

Have you been living in Antartica the last 6 years?

Why did you guys start playing rugby in 2012?