Junior football formed 1886, now facing oblivion. Where did it all go wrong?

[Larky55]

What went wrang?
Tam Johnstone, Isa Goudie, Dipplebevvy, Glenafton1793, Glesgaboy, Daleboy1969, Santheman, fowk like this and theres loads mair out there in juniorland.  They are whats went wrang and they betrayed the game

C**ts.

[santheman]

55 minutes ago, Larky55 said:

 

C**ts.

 

Naw we're all a cabal of luddite dinosaurs. Get it right John.

 

[lookinforgoals]

16 hours ago, Mr.Albert said:

Junior football as a working mans game has always reflected what is happening in that area  and is still doing so now,     young people not interested in either coming to the games or actually helping their local team,  to many other things to do. 

Need to disagree Mr Albert. Come along to any Neilston  game and you'll see a good hard working committee made up of young lads who have came through the supporting days and are now assisting,with the help of the old guard within the committee,to push the club forward

[Mr.Albert]

Glad to hear it but I think that is the exception rather than the rule.

All committees large or small are good hard working committees but there are not enough of them.

[Mr Prez]

On 02/05/2018 at 08:29, Kilbowie Benches said:

The fact that we have a guy in the West in his 80s doing the fixtures tells you all you need to know.

[Garret Deasy]

The fact that we have a guy in the West in his 80s doing the fixtures tells you all you need to know.

Of course they obtained software that would create full fixture lists. Robertson refused to use it, probably unable to, but most of all would remove his control and ability to manipulate fixtures to feed his own sad little mind. Who would he have to be rude to if he didn't have the sword of screwing up your club's fixtures as his weapon?

The issue is not just that he dug his personal heels in and said no, but no one had the ability, position or personal character to say no back to him.

[RWcoach]

Inability (or refusal?) to modernise with the times. 

Football played in mostly crumbling grounds, standard of football is still punt and hunt even for the higher divisions, ageing supports due to the Clubs not doing enough to attract younger people, self preservation of those in charge, self preservation of committees at clubs....I could go on.  Its sad, i still enjoy going to watch a game on a Saturday but the standard is rotten to watch and some of them are fairly well paid for what they actually give.

I'm involved in it but you just need to look at how Women's football has taken off in the last year or so and the content many of the top clubs offer in terms of fan involvement, highlights packages etc. Much of it done for nothing by dedicated volunteers interested in the game growing rather than as i say above - self preservation.

[A.M]

Personally , I love watching a good junior game and dont see a lot wrong with it, except that a lot of clubs have improved their parks / surroundings.

The one bug bear every season is the fixtures but when you look at LTHV late in the season the fixture list didnt exactly help them.

There was very little talk  about pyramids etc until very recently ( last June Burnie started his thread ), and very little moans about the junior game to be honest.

It seems popular to jump on the pyramid bandwagon and time to progress spiel, laid down by a few and followed by many. In fact just this time last year many of the people now campaigning for the pyramid were against any moves....amazing what a year can do if you have people canvassing. I honestly cant see what has changed in 12 months ?

I would say the pro pyramid guys are more vocal on here than those who are happy enough with the juniors, maybe because they get ripped to shreds for daring to think differently to the pro guys ?

Now before you all come on slating me for liking the juniors, I have read all the arguments , and you know what ....I still like the juniors. I'm not looking for an argument, just giving my opinion. 

BTW I have talked to a lot of people at recent games and also in Bonnyrigg where I now live and I can assure you their are plenty with doubts about moving to the pyramid, its not as popular a choice as some would have you believe .

And for all the children on here red dots dont bother me in the slightest.

[Marten]

33 minutes ago, A.M said:

Personally , I love watching a good junior game and dont see a lot wrong with it, except that a lot of clubs have improved their parks / surroundings.

The one bug bear every season is the fixtures but when you look at LTHV late in the season the fixture list didnt exactly help them.

There was very little talk  about pyramids etc until very recently ( last June Burnie started his thread ), and very little moans about the junior game to be honest.

It seems popular to jump on the pyramid bandwagon and time to progress spiel, laid down by a few and followed by many. In fact just this time last year many of the people now campaigning for the pyramid were against any moves....amazing what a year can do if you have people canvassing. I honestly cant see what has changed in 12 months ?

I would say the pro pyramid guys are more vocal on here than those who are happy enough with the juniors, maybe because they get ripped to shreds for daring to think differently to the pro guys ?

Now before you all come on slating me for liking the juniors, I have read all the arguments , and you know what ....I still like the juniors. I'm not looking for an argument, just giving my opinion. 

BTW I have talked to a lot of people at recent games and also in Bonnyrigg where I now live and I can assure you their are plenty with doubts about moving to the pyramid, its not as popular a choice as some would have you believe .

And for all the children on here red dots dont bother me in the slightest.

The LTHV fixture problem is quite specific to them (and Tynecastle) though. Due to their awful pitch many games got called off. Other clubs didn't really have any major issues with the fixtures, so using LTHV as example is not entirely fair.

And I'm not saying you can't enjoy the juniors, but do you really think much would change if the division you're in would be a part of the pyramid? In terms of prices, pitches etc., most of the pyramid non-league clubs are not that different from clubs in the juniors. The only clubs for which things will change significantly are clubs that get promoted to the SPFL. And let's be honest, of all the junior clubs, only a very small percentage would have that "worry"...

This is not criticism at you, just to be clear. I am just genuinely interested in what people think would seriously change?

[santheman]

33 minutes ago, A.M said:

Personally , I love watching a good junior game and dont see a lot wrong with it, except that a lot of clubs have improved their parks / surroundings.

The one bug bear every season is the fixtures but when you look at LTHV late in the season the fixture list didnt exactly help them.

There was very little talk  about pyramids etc until very recently ( last June Burnie started his thread ), and very little moans about the junior game to be honest.

It seems popular to jump on the pyramid bandwagon and time to progress spiel, laid down by a few and followed by many. In fact just this time last year many of the people now campaigning for the pyramid were against any moves....amazing what a year can do if you have people canvassing. I honestly cant see what has changed in 12 months ?

I would say the pro pyramid guys are more vocal on here than those who are happy enough with the juniors, maybe because they get ripped to shreds for daring to think differently to the pro guys ?

Now before you all come on slating me for liking the juniors, I have read all the arguments , and you know what ....I still like the juniors. I'm not looking for an argument, just giving my opinion. 

BTW I have talked to a lot of people at recent games and also in Bonnyrigg where I now live and I can assure you their are plenty with doubts about moving to the pyramid, its not as popular a choice as some would have you believe .

And for all the children on here red dots dont bother me in the slightest.

Welcome to the Cabal  A.M

[A.M]

4 minutes ago, Marten said:

The LTHV fixture problem is quite specific to them (and Tynecastle) though. Due to their awful pitch many games got called off. Other clubs didn't really have any major issues with the fixtures, so using LTHV as example is not entirely fair.

And I'm not saying you can't enjoy the juniors, but do you really think much would change if the division you're in would be a part of the pyramid? In terms of prices, pitches etc., most of the pyramid non-league clubs are not that different from clubs in the juniors. The only clubs for which things will change significantly are clubs that get promoted to the SPFL. And let's be honest, of all the junior clubs, only a very small percentage would have that "worry"...

This is not criticism at you, just to be clear. I am just genuinely interested in what people think would seriously change?

Using your own words Marten, if not much would change , why move ?

I would imagine the biggest change to my teams fans would be travel, purely down to geography. Its one thing travelling on occasion for the junior cup but for it to become a regular thing ( which is possible if they went up through the leagues )

[Vollyman]

What went wrang?
Tam Johnstone, Isa Goudie, Dipplebevvy, Glenafton1793, Glesgaboy, Daleboy1969, Santheman, fowk like this and theres loads mair out there in juniorland.  They are whats went wrang and they betrayed the game

These people have their opinions which I personally do not always agree with. I know one of the above who is dedicated to his club who works hard on maintaining the ground and dressing rooms. He also organises fund raising such as race nights, bingo, weekly lottery, raffles etc. He is backed by a hard working committee providing facilities which are used by the community. The statement you have made is probably the most idiotic comment I have read on this forum.

[Burnie_man]

11 minutes ago, A.M said:

Using your own words Marten, if not much would change , why move ?

I would imagine the biggest change to my teams fans would be travel, purely down to geography. Its one thing travelling on occasion for the junior cup but for it to become a regular thing ( which is possible if they went up through the leagues )

Without taking this particular thread off track, but since you name checked me above (and the debate has been on-going since the LL was being talked about, a lot longer than 10 months).

What would you say to an amateur club for example, who wanted to move the club to the next level.   How would you sell the Junior game to them as the better option as opposed to a the EoS (or a WoS) league in the Pyramid?

[A.M]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

Without taking this particular thread off track, but since you name checked me above (and the debate has been on-going since the LL was being talked about, a lot longer than 10 months).

What would you say to an amateur club for example, who wanted to move the club to the next level.   How would you sell the Junior game to them as the better option as opposed to a the EoS (or a WoS) league in the Pyramid?

I dont want to sell anything to anybody unlike you.

Although your hundreds of posts about the pyramid havent sold anything to me.

Thats my view....no interest in getting involved in an argument with the pro brigade because I'd just be labelled a dynosaur as have many more.....I can live with that.

[Burnie_man]

11 minutes ago, A.M said:

I dont want to sell anything to anybody unlike you.

Although your hundreds of posts about the pyramid havent sold anything to me.

Thats my view....no interest in getting involved in an argument with the pro brigade because I'd just be labelled a dynosaur as have many more.....I can live with that.

That view seems to be prevalent down Talbot way.

You and others criticise those who highlight and debate the benefits of involvement in the Pyramid on this forum, yet are not prepared to counter this by highlighting the benefits of the Junior game, just snipe. Play the ball and not the man.

[Jason King]

12 minutes ago, A.M said:

I dont want to sell anything to anybody unlike you.

What is being sold?

If the SJFA had sold the product properly over the last decade or so we wouldn't be in the mess that we currently are.

[Blackie Gold]

21 hours ago, Goalie Hamish said:

What went wrang?

Tam Johnstone, Isa Goudie, Dipplebevvy, Glenafton1793, Glesgaboy, Daleboy1969, Santheman, fowk like this and theres loads mair out there in juniorland.  They are whats went wrang and they betrayed the game

Isa and Dipple have done more for football than you could ever imagine. Beechwood's two enclosures, stand, toilets and new catering facilities were built by these two lads and their small building committee. When the stand was short of £10,000 to see it completed both of them and two others took out a personal loan to get the stand open. If Talbot do go to the pyramid and get a ground license then its down to their hard work that it will be awarded. Football is about devotion and passion they have shown theirs through hard work. I'm actually offended by your comment about them. 

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

Isa and Dipple have done more for football than you could ever imagine. Beechwood's two enclosures, stand, toilets and new catering facilities were built by these two lads and their small building committee. When the stand was short of £10,000 to see it completed both of them and two others took out a personal loan to get the stand open. If Talbot do go to the pyramid and get a ground license then its down to their hard work that it will be awarded. Football is about devotion and passion they have shown theirs through hard work. I'm actually offended by your comment about them. 

Fair play you two [emoji108]

[Goalie Hamish]

3 hours ago, Vollyman said:

These people have their opinions which I personally do not always agree with. I know one of the above who is dedicated to his club who works hard on maintaining the ground and dressing rooms. He also organises fund raising such as race nights, bingo, weekly lottery, raffles etc. He is backed by a hard working committee providing facilities which are used by the community. The statement you have made is probably the most idiotic comment I have read on this forum.

FFS have you seen the pish he posts on here and twitter fowk laugh at him and yer club but you have a problem with my post lol!!!!  Mibbee he does work hard for his club and nae criticism for that plenty fowk do that but he is an example of the backward thinking in the Juniors. Its embarrassing.

[Goalie Hamish]

1 hour ago, Blackie Gold said:

Isa and Dipple have done more for football than you could ever imagine. Beechwood's two enclosures, stand, toilets and new catering facilities were built by these two lads and their small building committee. When the stand was short of £10,000 to see it completed both of them and two others took out a personal loan to get the stand open. If Talbot do go to the pyramid and get a ground license then its down to their hard work that it will be awarded. Football is about devotion and passion they have shown theirs through hard work. I'm actually offended by your comment about them. 

Dinnae be offended, naebody is questioning people’s hard work for their ain club.  The point of this thread is to talk aboot what has caused the demise of Junior fitba and you can have fowk involved with their club who put their heart and soul into it, but cannae see the bigger picture and dinnae want anything to change ever.  You can be a hard grafter, put yer hand in yer pocket to help,  but be resistant to change at the same time and their posts on here show that. Thats whit holds the game back.