Minimum Alcohol Pricing

[54_and_counting]

1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/scotland-becomes-first-country-to-introduce-minimum-alcohol-unit-price-a3827686.html

It is estimated the move could save around 392 lives in the first five years of its implementation in Scotland, where on average there are 22 alcohol-specific deaths every week and 697 hospital admissions.

 

The misuse of alcohol is thought to cost Scotland £3.6 billion each year, or £900 for every adult in the country.

It affects all of us, it's not a class thing.

So it saves 392 lives in the first five years, is that based on current numbers or have they accounted for the glaring alcoholics that will have to choose between topping up their heating or getting out their tits on bevvy

Make no mistake there will be a considerable amount of hardened booze hounds who will now eat less, heat less and live in the dark more because their favourite booze has went up a benefits bursting amount 

[Baxter Parp]

2 minutes ago, renton said:

There is no getting away from the fact that this policy does target one socio-economic group above others. In that respect it must be a class thing.

So long as members of every class can be spread right across the economic spectrum it can't be. Income is what counts, not class.

[renton]

Just now, Baxter Parp said:

So long as members of every class can be spread right across the economic spectrum it can't be. Income is what counts, not class.

Income and wealth are the central tenants of the class system, not whether your Mum  listened to Radio 4 regularly. 

[54_and_counting]

2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

How much was it when the deal was over?

Unfortunately exceptions can't be made otherwise ScotGov would have imposed Excise rises on a case by case basis.

When the 24pk deal was off the 12pk deal came on, same price per bottle just different size of cases, the point is there is no offers that people can take advantage of now, wages are already squeezed to breaking point now we are told we need to pay more to have a beer or two on our day/night off, 

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, 54_and_counting said:

Make no mistake there will be a considerable amount of hardened booze hounds who will now eat less, heat less and live in the dark more because their favourite booze has went up a benefits bursting amount 

They should probably try and get some help before it comes to that.  I suspect someone in that kind of state might be about to become a statistic no matter what happens.  It's those that aren't already lost causes that are the main targets of the legislation.

[54_and_counting]

On the flip side the pub trade might get a boost given most of them already sell at above minimum pricing 

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, renton said:

Income and wealth are the central tenants of the class system, not whether your Mum  listened to Radio 4 regularly. 

"Tenets" and minimum pricing is still not about class.

[ICTChris]

3 minutes ago, renton said:

positively affect the groups most suffering.

That's the question really.  Who is this supposed to help - people who sit on park benches drinking cans of Super or people who maybe have a few too many bottles of wine?  I know people who've been in the second category and I'm fairly certain that they will carry on drinking if it's a bit more expensive and, while I'm not pals with anyone who drinks K cider by the  carrier bag, I imagine they aren't going to particularly cut down.

It could be that people on the fringes of each of these groups are 'nudged' in the direction of drinking less, we will see.  I do think that the levels of drinking in Scotland (and the rest of the UK) have been reducing in recent years, be interesting if this trend continues, the fall increases or even decreases.

[54_and_counting]

1 minute ago, Baxter Parp said:

They should probably try and get some help before it comes to that.  I suspect someone in that kind of state might be about to become a statistic no matter what happens.  It's those that aren't already lost causes that are the main targets of the legislation.

The ones that arent already lost causes could be pushed towards being a lost cause, there could be many alcoholics who still get by just fine before today, albeit in an intoxicated state but they still get by, they will have a major decision to make now and instead of helping them by the government making the choice for them, they are simply left to their own devices, when has that ever worked? 

[Lurkst]

3 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

On the flip side the pub trade might get a boost given most of them already sell at above minimum pricing 

What pubs were selling at below 50p a unit? 

[54_and_counting]

Just now, ICTChris said:

That's the question really.  Who is this supposed to help - people who sit on park benches drinking cans of Super or people who maybe have a few too many bottles of wine?  I know people who've been in the second category and I'm fairly certain that they will carry on drinking if it's a bit more expensive and, while I'm not pals with anyone who drinks K cider by the  carrier bag, I imagine they aren't going to particularly cut down.

It could be that people on the fringes of each of these groups are 'nudged' in the direction of drinking less, we will see.  I do think that the levels of drinking in Scotland (and the rest of the UK) have been reducing in recent years, be interesting if this trend continues, the fall increases or even decreases.

The levels may have fallen due to the smoking ban in boozers, many people might have enjoyed a pint or two in their local after work, drinking in the house might not be possible, 

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, 54_and_counting said:

The ones that arent already lost causes could be pushed towards being a lost cause, there could be many alcoholics who still get by just fine before today, albeit in an intoxicated state but they still get by, they will have a major decision to make now and instead of helping them by the government making the choice for them, they are simply left to their own devices, when has that ever worked? 

Just how many of these people are there?

[54_and_counting]

Just now, Lurkst said:

What pubs were selling at below 50p a unit? 

Erm none, thats the point, lots of pubs lost trade due to the cheap supermarket prices, people might start going back to their local if the prices arent much different now

[renton]

3 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

"Tenets" and minimum pricing is still not about class.

Of course it is, this isn't a policy aimed at stopping Lord Fuckwit of the Glen from getting smashed on Brandy every night. It's a typical behavioural nudge policy aimed at trying to reduce consumption through increased cost. It's impossible to get away from the correlation between precarious levels of disposable income, and binge drinking on cheap alcohol. To deny that is asinine. 

Not sure why your wanting to die on this hill, unless you perceive an open flank for the SNP to be accused of not being left wing on this issue, and therefore are vigorously denying any such link to class to try and short circuit any critique. 

[Lurkst]

1 minute ago, 54_and_counting said:

Erm none, thats the point, lots of pubs lost trade due to the cheap supermarket prices, people might start going back to their local if the prices arent much different now

It's a point I agree with wholeheartedly, but you did say "most" pubs sell at above minimum price.

 

I'm happy to give minimum pricing a shot, if it turns out to be a crap policy it can be repealed in 6 years.

[Baxter Parp]

6 minutes ago, renton said:

Of course it is, this isn't a policy aimed at stopping Lord Fuckwit of the Glen from getting smashed on Brandy every night. It's a typical behavioural nudge policy aimed at trying to reduce consumption through increased cost. It's impossible to get away from the correlation between precarious levels of disposable income, and binge drinking on cheap alcohol. To deny that is asinine. 

Not sure why your wanting to die on this hill, unless you perceive an open flank for the SNP to be accused of not being left wing on this issue, and therefore are vigorously denying any such link to class to try and short circuit any critique. 

It's only about class if you and your definition of class are stuck in the 1950's.

[Glenconner]

Putting up the price of cheap drink is prohibition by the back door. 

[banana]

'Progressives' and lefties celebrating imposing yet more top-down behavior and morality control over people's lives is always good for a laugh.

#thepromisedland

Edited May 1, 2018 by banana

[Glenconner]

4 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

It's only about class if you and your definition of class are stuck in the 1950's.

In the end that's why the SNP will go back into the tartan ghetto. Nice wee cosy middle class politics and dancing round Bruce's statue in Bannockburn of a June afternoon. Only thing holding it back from happening is the Labour Party in Scotland being so effin dreadful.

[NotThePars]

Income and wealth are the central tenants of the class system, not whether your Mum  listened to Radio 4 regularly. 

Of course. Arguing otherwise inevitably leads to Chlamydia Kid style claims that working class “culture” is opposing immigration and proudly flunking out of your highers. Income is the first and primary definition of class.