Minimum Alcohol Pricing

[Todd_is_God]

5 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

Or, actually quite a brave policy for politicians who normally want / need an instant hit. 
 

It’s part of a suite of things aimed at reducing the harms from alcohol. Another one is education - nobody is suggesting education is going to change a jakies mind or behaviour. MUP is the same. 

Nah, it's an excuse for not answering, honestly, the question of "has this had the result we intended?" whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that drug related deaths are increasing.

However, to take your point at face value. Have young peoples' attitudes to alcohol changed as a result of MUP? I'm not convinced they have. In fact, anecdotally, i've seen more young people drinking higher ABV drinks recently than were available when I was younger, and they aren't drinking cheap shite like 3L bottles of White Lightening either. There's no real need for the likes of Dragon Soop to exist, for example.

By the time the %age of young people who will go on to become alcohol dependant actually do so, it will be too late. MUP, clearly, isn't the answer.

[Wee Bully]

9 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Nah, it's an excuse for not answering, honestly, the question of "has this had the result we intended?" whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that drug related deaths are increasing.

However, to take your point at face value. Have young peoples' attitudes to alcohol changed as a result of MUP? I'm not convinced they have. In fact, anecdotally, i've seen more young people drinking higher ABV drinks recently than were available when I was younger, and they aren't drinking cheap shite like 3L bottles of White Lightening either. There's no real need for the likes of Dragon Soop to exist, for example.

By the time the %age of young people who will go on to become alcohol dependant actually do so, it will be too late. MUP, clearly, isn't the answer.

Ok mate. 

Enjoy your night. 

[10menwent2mow]

2 hours ago, Suspect Device said:

The alcohol deaths were heading down before the implementation of the minimum pricing were they not?

Not sure how our alcohol deaths compare with other countries.

ALCOHOL DEATH RATE BY COUNTRY (worldlifeexpectancy.com

Guess it depends if it's like Covid and we count an alcohol related death as anyone who has had a Half Pint shandy in the last 25 years.  

[NotThePars]

As long as Buckfast continues to be unaffected they can do what they like

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Dragon Soop is a great mixer for vodka btw.

[Baxter Parp]

I dont really get that point that the price of alcohol is the deterrent to becoming addicted to it, education and less poverty must be the 2 biggest drivers.
maybe im wrong but putting prices up so people who cant afford a drink cant enjoy one seems a bit class based if thats really their argument for doing it

Debunked years ago. Most alcohol is unaffected, gut rot cider is not. Unless you contend poor folk only drink gut rot cider.

[Baxter Parp]

Nah, it's an excuse for not answering, honestly, the question of "has this had the result we intended?" whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that drug related deaths are increasing.
However, to take your point at face value. Have young peoples' attitudes to alcohol changed as a result of MUP? I'm not convinced they have. In fact, anecdotally, i've seen more young people drinking higher ABV drinks recently than were available when I was younger, and they aren't drinking cheap shite like 3L bottles of White Lightening either. There's no real need for the likes of Dragon Soop to exist, for example.
By the time the %age of young people who will go on to become alcohol dependant actually do so, it will be too late. MUP, clearly, isn't the answer.

Your anecdotes are no match for scientific, data-driven analysis.

[Wee Bully]

8 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

3 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Nah, it's an excuse for not answering, honestly, the question of "has this had the result we intended?" whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that drug related deaths are increasing.
However, to take your point at face value. Have young peoples' attitudes to alcohol changed as a result of MUP? I'm not convinced they have. In fact, anecdotally, i've seen more young people drinking higher ABV drinks recently than were available when I was younger, and they aren't drinking cheap shite like 3L bottles of White Lightening either. There's no real need for the likes of Dragon Soop to exist, for example.
By the time the %age of young people who will go on to become alcohol dependant actually do so, it will be too late. MUP, clearly, isn't the answer.

Your anecdotes are no match for scientific, data-driven analysis.

No point engaging - it is obvious concern trolling.  

[Baxter Parp]

11 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

A reduction of 0.3 deaths per day is not exactly a roaring success, especially when coupled with increased drug related deaths.

Great example of confirmation bias.

What quantity of lives saved would be a success?

[NotThePars]

8 hours ago, Tommy Carcetti said:

Dragon Soop is a great mixer for vodka btw.

I have to try this. Am always open to ned drinks.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

10 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I have to try this. Am always open to ned drinks.

It's strong alcohol + strong alcohol + caffeine + fizzy juice..

Pure rocket fuel before you head out.

[vikingTON]

13 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

It’s good to see we are back to the old argument of “Alchies will always find a way to drink”.  The point of minimum pricing was not to catch those already addicted, but to discourage those who aren’t yet, and help reduce the chances of them become addicted.  It is one of those rare policies where the main benefits are in 20 years time, not today.

Except that the measure only discourages those who are too poor to dinghy the impact of the tax. For the 'respectable', bottle a wine with dinner every night Morningside set, it has no such effect. When they continue drinking, the adjustment proposed by wilful idiots like yourself is to, erm, further increase the tax that only the poor feel the impact from. 

Consumption taxes are a regressive crock of shite. If you want a public health intervention to prevent potential addiction, fund it through direct, progressive taxation instead. It's literally that straightforward. 

[Baxter Parp]

10 minutes ago, virginton said:

Except that the measure only discourages those who are too poor to dinghy the impact of the tax.

virginton is another arsehole that thinks the poor only drink Frosty Jacks.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Baxter Parp

[vikingTON]

Baxter Parp is another wilful idiot who wants to trade his entirely insincere concern about alcohol misuse for a regressive consumption tax on the poor. 

[bendan]

14 minutes ago, virginton said:

Except that the measure only discourages those who are too poor to dinghy the impact of the tax. For the 'respectable', bottle a wine with dinner every night Morningside set, it has no such effect. When they continue drinking, the adjustment proposed by wilful idiots like yourself is to, erm, further increase the tax that only the poor feel the impact from. 

Consumption taxes are a regressive crock of shite. If you want a public health intervention to prevent potential addiction, fund it through direct, progressive taxation instead. It's literally that straightforward. 

I wish MUP was a tax. At least the government would be getting some extra money. It would probably be a drop in the ocean compared to the harm alcohol causes in Scotland, though.

[Baxter Parp]

43 minutes ago, virginton said:

Baxter Parp is another wilful idiot who wants to trade his entirely insincere concern about alcohol misuse for a regressive consumption tax on the poor. 

It's not a tax and you're a fucking idiot, virginton.

At this time, I'm just seeing if the virginton filter is consistent.

Edit: it is.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Baxter Parp

[vikingTON]

11 hours ago, bendan said:

I wish MUP was a tax. At least the government would be getting some extra money. It would probably be a drop in the ocean compared to the harm alcohol causes in Scotland, though.

Just as well that the government already slaps some of the highest duties in the developed world on it then, as well as further, crushing taxes on pubs to sell it within a controlled, licensed environment. 

It's no surprise though that a country that already chose the Helen Lovejoy principle to govern its own people's free use of their time and money has went on to apply that principle again during the pandemic. To predictably lamentable effect, other than convincing the chattering classes that At Least Something is Being Done. 

[Bairnardo]

Baxter Parp is another wilful idiot who wants to trade his entirely insincere concern about alcohol misuse for a regressive consumption tax on the poor. 

Didn't you argue for these types of taxes on junk food for the fatties?

[Wee Bully]

2 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

14 hours ago, virginton said:

Baxter Parp is another wilful idiot who wants to trade his entirely insincere concern about alcohol misuse for a regressive consumption tax on the poor. 

Didn't you argue for these types of taxes on junk food for the fatties?

Don’t ask virginton to be consistent. 

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

14 hours ago, virginton said:

Baxter Parp is another wilful idiot who wants to trade his entirely insincere concern about alcohol misuse for a regressive consumption tax on the poor. 

Didn't you argue for these types of taxes on junk food for the fatties?

No, I argued that fatties should have a supplement added to their income tax rate, based on their deviation from healthy BMI.

Unlike the ridiculous alternative of a consumption tax*, this is consistent with the principle of progressive taxation because it is tied to income tax; rather than targeting the poor with paying higher prices, which is entirely regressive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Good luck determining whether and what products would be classed as 'junk food'.