Jump to content

Minimum Alcohol Pricing


scottsdad

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 


Dozens of factors but I’m going to throw deindustrialisation in there.

 

a generation that lost their job, switch to house drinking too.

Seems a bit strange to talk about absolute numbers in the stats.  Surely have to account for population changes..although Scotland's hasn't changed THAT  much since 1980.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Figures released today show that the number of alcohol specific deaths rose for the same period that sales fell. Some of that period was following the introduction of minimum unit pricing.

Deaths rose from 1,120 to 1,136. The model for MUP expected a drop in this figure after the first year. As with the consumption figures though, I don’t think conclusions can be drawn on MUP from this. Worth sharing though.

Amazing looking at the document, between the late 70s and early 90s there were around 350-400 alcohol specific deaths per year but the figure has been around 1,000-1,200 since then. Must’ve been some sort of change in how they count them or have we all become massive bevvy merchants in the last 30odd years?

The statisticians in the 80s were all pished on McEwen's Export.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Figures released today show that the number of alcohol specific deaths rose for the same period that sales fell. Some of that period was following the introduction of minimum unit pricing.

Deaths rose from 1,120 to 1,136. The model for MUP expected a drop in this figure after the first year. As with the consumption figures though, I don’t think conclusions can be drawn on MUP from this. Worth sharing though.

Amazing looking at the document, between the late 70s and early 90s there were around 350-400 alcohol specific deaths per year but the figure has been around 1,000-1,200 since then. Must’ve been some sort of change in how they count them or have we all become massive bevvy merchants in the last 30odd years?

I'd imagine some long term jakes have croaked it bumping up the figures.  

Certainly the availablity of drink has increased. From all day opening in the 70s and pubs being allowed to open on a Sunday and extended hours. All the on trade stuff.

In the off trade the amount of licences has increased. They were closed on a Sunday until the mid 90s too. Then you have the targetting of youngsters around that time with hooch and all the alcopops from that time that are still all over the place now.

I'd be surprised if the figures for alcohol related deaths didn't get worse before improving. You'll have chronic jakes who started on the hooch now in their mid forties with all sorts of health conditions. Youngsters are all seemingly avoiding alcohol these days which will improve the figures longer term. Boring c***s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Dozens of factors but I’m going to throw deindustrialisation in there.

 

Pretty much agree with this. Essentially a variation on Deaton and Case's "deaths of despair".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, tirso said:

a generation that lost their job, switch to house drinking too.

House drinking has to be a killer. Used to never drink at home and had at least 3 days a week away from the pub. Being a home carer the last few years has had a dreadful effect, just recently making a serious and so far effective effort to cut down. Switching from a similar volume of whisky to white wine hasn't been too hard but still to master days off it or cutting it out entirely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Deaths rose from 1,120 to 1,136. The model for MUP expected a drop in this figure after the first year. As with the consumption figures though, I don’t think conclusions can be drawn on MUP from this. Worth sharing though.
Amazing looking at the document, between the late 70s and early 90s there were around 350-400 alcohol specific deaths per year but the figure has been around 1,000-1,200 since then. Must’ve been some sort of change in how they count them or have we all become massive bevvy merchants in the last 30odd years?

You certainly can't draw conclusions when MUP was in place for not much more than half that period. In any case, I think you'd have to look at the reasons behind the deaths to to see if there's a link or not. I'd have thought MUP would be more likely to discourage binge drinking which probably isn't the primary cause of drink-related deaths, but is a major factor in hospital admissions. Don't think long-term jakeys are likely to be dissuaded. If they want to drink themselves to death they'll find a way. Any benefits of MUP will take years to appear and even then the impact won't be sensational.

I read somewhere that the major reasons for the jump in deaths was the after-effects of post-industrialisation – it was said to be the reason why deaths in Scotland rose in the 1990s while they declined elsewhere in the UK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49742175

So the first actual evidence strongly suggests that it works and saves lives. There will need to be more evidence gathered and more statistical analysis, but so far it looks good.

No thanks to the global liquid drug pushers alliance, who used the Scotch Whisky Association to delay this policy by six fucking years. They lost at the Court of Session, then they lost at the CJEU, then they lost again at the Court of Session before finally losing at the Supreme Court. At every stage they took as long as possible to seek leave to appeal. They knew it was a legitimate and lawful policy. They knew it had nothing to do with whisky. They didn't care. They just wanted to kick it down the line for as long as they could, so they could exploit ill, addicted and impoverished drinkers.

Looks like people are dead because of that delay.

Last year SWA member Diageo reported £3.7 billion operating profit on sales of £12.2 billion. That's a very fat margin. Their CEO got paid £11.7 million in salary and incentives.

Minimum alcohol pricing was always worth giving a go. There was enough evidence and enough justification to try it and at least see if it worked. I'm glad that the first indications are positive, but I'm struggling not to let that be overshadowed by anger at the c***s who put it back years for no other reason than to make themselves even more obscenely rich. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 I know an Irish couple who gave me examples of alcohol pricing in the ROI. They load their car to near breaking point with wine when visiting France.

It sounded really fkn dear to me.  Anyone know if there has been a drop in alcohol related deaths over there? 

Just asking.

ETA Took my own advice and researched.

  • Alcohol is responsible for 88 deaths every month in Ireland. That’s over 1,000 deaths per year.
  • One in four deaths of young men aged 15-39 in Ireland is due to alcohol.
  • Alcohol is a factor in half of all suicides in Ireland. Alcohol is also involved in over a third of cases of deliberate self-harm, peaking around weekends and public holidays.
  • Liver disease rates are increasing rapidly in Ireland and the greatest level of increase is among 15-to-34-year-olds, who historically had the lowest rates of liver disease.
  • 900 people in Ireland are diagnosed with alcohol-related cancers and around 500 people die from these diseases every year; one in eight breasts cancer are alcohol related.
  • Drink-driving is a factor in two fifths of all deaths on Irish roads; 1 in 2 pedestrians killed on roads had consumed alcohol.

 

So, at first glance, pricing has no effect.

 

Edited by cyderspaceman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 26/06/2019 at 12:59, ICTChris said:

Figures released today show that the number of alcohol specific deaths rose for the same period that sales fell. Some of that period was following the introduction of minimum unit pricing.

Deaths rose from 1,120 to 1,136. The model for MUP expected a drop in this figure after the first year. As with the consumption figures though, I don’t think conclusions can be drawn on MUP from this. Worth sharing though.

Amazing looking at the document, between the late 70s and early 90s there were around 350-400 alcohol specific deaths per year but the figure has been around 1,000-1,200 since then. Must’ve been some sort of change in how they count them or have we all become massive bevvy merchants in the last 30odd years?

Surely most alcohol deaths are due to long term abuse. I wouldn't expect an immediate change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, cyderspaceman said:

 I know an Irish couple who gave me examples of alcohol pricing in the ROI. They load their car to near breaking point with wine when visiting France.

It sounded really fkn dear to me.  Anyone know if there has been a drop in alcohol related deaths over there? 

Just asking.

ETA Took my own advice and researched.

  • Alcohol is responsible for 88 deaths every month in Ireland. That’s over 1,000 deaths per year.
  • One in four deaths of young men aged 15-39 in Ireland is due to alcohol.
  • Alcohol is a factor in half of all suicides in Ireland. Alcohol is also involved in over a third of cases of deliberate self-harm, peaking around weekends and public holidays.
  • Liver disease rates are increasing rapidly in Ireland and the greatest level of increase is among 15-to-34-year-olds, who historically had the lowest rates of liver disease.
  • 900 people in Ireland are diagnosed with alcohol-related cancers and around 500 people die from these diseases every year; one in eight breasts cancer are alcohol related.
  • Drink-driving is a factor in two fifths of all deaths on Irish roads; 1 in 2 pedestrians killed on roads had consumed alcohol.

 

So, at first glance, pricing has no effect.

 

Ireland doesn't have minimum unit pricing. According to research, in Ireland a man can buy enough alcohol to hit his weekly drinking limit of 17 units for €9, a woman can buy her limit of 11 units for €5.50. That's not as cheap as it was in Scotland and at around 50 cents per unit it's only slightly below the Scottish MUP. But incomes are higher in Ireland and the weak pound skews it too. They're talking about introducing an MUP of €1 per unit, and the health stats you've given are a good indication of why they need it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, GordonS said:

Ireland doesn't have minimum unit pricing. According to research, in Ireland a man can buy enough alcohol to hit his weekly drinking limit of 17 units for €9, a woman can buy her limit of 11 units for €5.50. That's not as cheap as it was in Scotland and at around 50 cents per unit it's only slightly below the Scottish MUP. But incomes are higher in Ireland and the weak pound skews it too. They're talking about introducing an MUP of €1 per unit, and the health stats you've given are a good indication of why they need it.

I wasn't suggesting Ireland has minimum pricing. I just meant the 'price' didn't seem to have any effect.

Your figures (which I have checked, of course ) are indeed accurate.  I hadn't checked the supermarket pricing. 

Maybe it's just decent wine that's expensive, my friends certainly bought a shedload over here.

From what you say, the Irish are in line for MUP.  One euro per unit seems very high. They won't like it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, cyderspaceman said:

I wasn't suggesting Ireland has minimum pricing. I just meant the 'price' didn't seem to have any effect.

Your figures (which I have checked, of course ) are indeed accurate.  I hadn't checked the supermarket pricing. 

Maybe it's just decent wine that's expensive, my friends certainly bought a shedload over here.

From what you say, the Irish are in line for MUP.  One euro per unit seems very high. They won't like it.

I think quality booze is much cheaper in France than Ireland, so that's presumably what your friends were doing.

I remember a group of Tartan Army guys on our campsite near Bordeaux in 1998 drinking their way through a keg of lager and a keg of heavy that they'd brought from home, then on the advice of the campsite owner, taking their empty kegs to the local vineyard to get them filled with very, very respectable claret. I can't remember how much they paid but it was ridiculously cheap!

MUP is the kind of policy that doesn't necessarily work the same in every society - it depends on the income profile of problem drinkers, the incomes of the people on the lowest rung, and all sorts of cultural stuff. It'll be interesting to see if it works there, and what is the impact of a price not far off double ours. It's bound to have more of an impact through the middle of the market too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8% drop in alcohol sales in the shops. On the face of it, a good thing.
Anyone got a figure for cross-border alcohol imports?  :whistle


It certainly won’t be replacing the 8% of total sales.

Great to see it working (and apparently the drop is twice what had been modelled).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

When you bring back two cartons of fags you get a half bottle of vodka free, 9 half bottles this time no cost.

Sometimes when you read that someone  is increasing their chance of Cancer you just have to hit the "Like" button

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...