Minimum Alcohol Pricing

[Romeo]

How come rich people live longer then?

They tend not to drink Frosty Jack's.

[Baxter Parp]

5 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

How come rich people live longer then?

What's that got to do with public health policy?

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

What's that got to do with public health policy?

They're targeting the class of people who can only afford cheap alcohol. It will have zero affect on the wealthy. Whether the policy is good or bad it's certainly a class issue.

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, welshbairn said:

They're targeting the class of people who can only afford cheap alcohol. It will have zero affect on the wealthy. Whether the policy is good or bad it's certainly a class issue.

Wealth doesn't = class.  The wealthy are certainly unaffected by all public health policies including prescription charges, cigarette taxes, NHS cuts and minimum pricing.  That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be implemented and doesn't mean that they won't benefit.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/scotland-becomes-first-country-to-introduce-minimum-alcohol-unit-price-a3827686.html

It is estimated the move could save around 392 lives in the first five years of its implementation in Scotland, where on average there are 22 alcohol-specific deaths every week and 697 hospital admissions.

The misuse of alcohol is thought to cost Scotland £3.6 billion each year, or £900 for every adult in the country.

It affects all of us, it's not a class thing.

[Glenconner]

28 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Public health isn't a class issue, fuckwit.

They came for the smokers and nobody gave an eff

They came for the drinkers and nobody gave an eff

Next up........the fatties.

[Glenconner]

They tried it on with the football fans but they fought back and won.

[banana]

32 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

Voted Yes in the referendum but this whole creepy public health gig from Nicola is starting to grate with me. 

Common phenomenon for childless women to redirect the unfulfilled mothering instinct onto others. In the case of women in positions of power, onto groups and broader society.

[Enigma]

Slippery slope. Watch crime go up from here.

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

I'd happily pay £20 for a bottle of Frosty Jack's so I don't really see the problem.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, Enigma said:

Slippery slope. Watch crime go up from here.

Yobs stealing cars to go on 'Frosty Jack' runs to Carlisle?

 

[ICTChris]

58 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Unlike "nearly as much as" which is a precisely quantifiable term, presumably.

70% as much as  

[mizfit]

Meh, my tipples aren’t effected as much.

My concern is supermarkets increasing further to Make more profit, and occasionally drop to the minimal price as an offer.

[renton]

1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:

Public health isn't a class issue, fuckwit.

Of course it is, it absolutely fucking is. The "Glasgow effect" isn't talking about Kelvinside, is it. The whole point of a universal, socialised medical service is to try and reduce that class effect. Beyond that, other socio-economic factors make themselves felt: Not having money to properly heat, or insulate a home, to not be able to afford healthier fresh fruit or vegetables and more often or not as the only form of escapism available to people with hee haw disposable income happens to be through questionable reliance on the drink.

[renton]

40 minutes ago, banana said:

Common phenomenon for childless women to redirect the unfulfilled mothering instinct onto others. In the case of women in positions of power, onto groups and broader society.

Your unfulfilled instincts are certainly obvious in your posts anyway.

[Baxter Parp]

3 minutes ago, renton said:

Of course it is, it absolutely fucking is. The "Glasgow effect" isn't talking about Kelvinside, is it. The whole point of a universal, socialised medical service is to try and reduce that class effect. Beyond that, other socio-economic factors make themselves felt: Not having money to properly heat, or insulate a home, to not be able to afford healthier fresh fruit or vegetables and more often or not as the only form of escapism available to people with hee haw disposable income happens to be through questionable reliance on the drink.

Money doesn't = class. We lived in a one bedroom flat and mum was still defiantly middle class - nothing to do with the lack of available cash. Public health policy isn't part of the class war.

[renton]

1 minute ago, Baxter Parp said:

Money doesn't = class. We lived in a one bedroom flat and mum was still defiantly middle class - nothing to do with the lack of available cash. Public health policy isn't part of the class war.

Try telling that to Karl Marx. It's not about sending in the secret police to get the folk who all know which spoon to use. Class is defined by and large by income and above all else, wealth because those are the levers by which one group of people advantage themselves at the cost of others. There is no doubt that people define "class" as more than the tangible metrics of money and power, and that people construct behaviours and morals that they believe align them to one class or another, there is a good reason the last attempt to move beyond the old three class definition involved a good number of social markers beyond income and wealth - but those were still central. Money, old or new is absolutely the Rosetta stone by which class is ultimately defined in terms of policy and sociology.

On that basis lifting people out of poverty, absolute and relative, is the best long term strategy for dealing with poor health outcomes. 

 

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, renton said:

On that basis lifting people out of poverty, absolute and relative, is the best long term strategy for dealing with poor health outcomes. 

Absolutely but I still dispute that that has anything to do with "class".  "Working class" jobs can earn far more than traditionally "middle class" jobs, for instance.  Middle class people can easily become poverty stricken in a volatile (i.e. Tory) economy and so on.

[54_and_counting]

2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

Nonsense. The price of a can of lager or bottle of wine will be about the same.  What will be affected most is gut-rot high alcohol cider.

No they wont, a 24pk of bud is now 16. 80, places were doing it for 13 quid or less in deals etc

Wine wont change much given the supermarket mark up of some wines were as high as 80%,

Funnily enough a bottle of Buckfast can be made cheaper than it is right now, how great is that for dealing with social issues

[renton]

Just now, Baxter Parp said:

Absolutely but I still dispute that that has anything to do with "class".  "Working class" jobs can earn far more than traditionally "middle class" jobs, for instance.  Middle class people can easily become poverty stricken in a volatile (i.e. Tory) economy and so on.

Not to get too far from the point but there are no such things as working class jobs, only working class outcomes, and the like. Indeed the old three class system is probably fairly out of date in a society where white collar jobs make up the majority of the economic activity, hence why they tried this: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0038038513481128

There is no getting away from the fact that this policy does target one socio-economic group above others. In that respect it must be a class thing. On the other hand I'm not about to castigate it out of hand, as there are enough professional health groups who believe this should positively affect the groups most suffering.

[Baxter Parp]

2 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

No they wont, a 24pk of bud is now 16. 80, places were doing it for 13 quid or less in deals etc

How much was it when the deal was over?

2 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

Funnily enough a bottle of Buckfast can be made cheaper than it is right now, how great is that for dealing with social issues

Unfortunately exceptions can't be made otherwise ScotGov would have imposed Excise rises on a case by case basis.