The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[THEHonestman1910]

Lachlan Cameron saved the club, but he nearly killed it in 2012. 

[19QOS19]

At least it's not QOS fans.

What have we got to be bitter about?

[Trogdor]

Saved the club is a bit extreme for me. We didnt go into administration and I wouldn't say our actual existance was threatened. To say otherwise is total speculation, no-one actually knows what would have happened.

Administration (I know its a dirty word) may actually have been a better option. Its all well and good being principled but it definitely hurt the club in the short term. Most clubs that have gone into administration have come out of it stronger. Is it fair? Absolutely not but that's the reality. A lot of companies go into administration and come out stronger too. I would be surprised if it wasn't actually considered by the new board to avoid the legacy debt. 

As I say, its all well and good having principles with junior jobbers and Mark Shanks at the helm... Argh! Thank god thats in the past.

ETA - The Camerons legacy at this club is keeping it ticking over. Nothing more.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Trogdor

[D'Jaffo]

Saved the club is a bit extreme for me. We didnt go into administration and I wouldn't say our actual existance was threatened. To say otherwise is total speculation, no-one actually knows what would have happened.
Administration (I know its a dirty word) may actually have been a better option. Its all well and good being principled but it definitely hurt the club in the short term. Most clubs that have gone into administration have come out of it stronger. Is it fair? Absolutely not but that's the reality. A lot of companies go into administration and come out stronger too. I would be surprised if it wasn't actually considered by the new board to avoid the legacy debt. 
As I say, its all well and good having principles with junior jobbers and Mark Shanks at the helm... Argh! Thank god thats in the past.

ETA - The Camerons legacy at this club is keeping it ticking over. Nothing more.

My view on Cameron has always been that I’m very grateful for what he’s done and what he is still doing. I think most owners might’ve taken the admin option and hoped for the best but I’m happy he didn’t. It’s not a guarantee that you’ll come out the other side of it and be successful.

However I’m also fairly certain we won’t move forward off the pitch unless we get new ownership. That’s not a criticism of Cameron, it’s just the nature of the situation. He’s not willing (or perhaps able) to bankroll us in the same way someone like Bill Barr was and I’m not going to have a go at him for that so it’s only natural, that unless he changes his mind, we’ll stagnate a bit until the ownership changes hands.

I think the way to measure how good a chairman is does he put the clubs best interests first? Bill Barr poured in a small fortune in his time but that doesn’t necessarily make him a brilliant chairman. It makes him a generous one.

[itzdrk]

5 hours ago, diegomarahenry said:

Bill Barr's legacy will show he was the chairman who funded our run to three semi-finals and a final of major competitions and a team of exciting players who ordinarily wouldn't have signed for Ayr. he also built a hospitality suite. He hired Campbell Money as the head of youth development who, at the time was one of the best in Scotland. 

The reality was a very shortsighted approach to not only the football club but also Ayr Eagles and the Centrum project. Almost overnight, the funding was withdrawn from everything. Somerset had almost been run in to the ground waiting on a stadium that never happened. Daziel had about two years too long in the job and was allowed to spend money to hide his inadequacies. 

One of the most common things I get asked when talking to folk about football who aren't Ayr fans is, how could Barr build every stadium in the UK and not build Ayr one? My answer was always, because every club he built a stadium for promised to pay him. Why should he fire £5-10-15 million of his own money in to a stadium he''d never see back? His sustainable approach to a stadium deal probably means that Jim Kirkwood didn't have to buy the ground as well as the car park a few years back to pay the tax bill. 

He gave me some of the best moments of my time supporting Ayr and deserves more credit than Daziel for the whole period. 

I presume he was wanting to go out with a "bang".  The tax bill did shaft Ayr badly and set us back years but I had a much more sour taste about selling the ice hockey club to a shopping centre.  

He took both clubs on a good wee ride and I am glad I was young and loving it when it happened. 

[UpInTheAyr]

The cup runs were great, iirc didn't Neil Duffy score a penalty in a midweek cup game once for the win or replay. I vaguely remember leaving a game early when we were losing because it was that cold, only to be told when I got home what had happened. I'm sure I've not just made that up

[D'Jaffo]

The cup runs were great, iirc didn't Neil Duffy score a penalty in a midweek cup game once for the win or replay. I vaguely remember leaving a game early when we were losing because it was that cold, only to be told when I got home what had happened. I'm sure I've not just made that up

Not sure about him scoring a penalty but he scored against Dundee in a SC replay in extra time at Somerset that then went to penalties and we won.

[ayrmad]

7 hours ago, D'Jaffo said:

Not sure about him scoring a penalty but he scored against Dundee in a SC replay in extra time at Somerset that then went to penalties and we won.

Did the big man not slot away a penalty like a classy thing in a penalty shootout, might even have been the winning one.

Edited November 12, 2019 by ayrmad

[Parkhouse]

Well after the financial crash of 2008 and the subsequent collapse of the new stadium deal the club was on its knees, if you don't think they weren't you are deluded.
Even now the financial statements still show that Cameron is filling the financial gap for losses. If he wasn't there who do you suggest would be paying the difference, Somerset Boab with his latest fundraising music video?

Because I don’t see Lachlan as the saviour of Ayr United doesn’t mean I’m delusional. Obviously the club has not been flush with cash during the majority of his tenure.

My issue is the one-sided view of things. Lachlan has the controlling interest in Ayr United. He is therefore responsible for the negatives as well as the positives. If the club is losing fortunes then ultimately it’s as a result of his decisions.

Do you really think Lachlan Cameron is the only person capable of keeping Ayr United afloat? If he wasn’t in charge our finances would be the responsibility of our new directors/owners. Like directors/owners at every other football club in the country they’d be judged on their success or failure.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Parkhouse said:

 

Because I don’t see Lachlan as the saviour of Ayr United doesn’t mean I’m delusional. Obviously the club has not been flush with cash during the majority of his tenure.

My issue is the one-sided view of things. Lachlan has the controlling interest in Ayr United. He is therefore responsible for the negatives as well as the positives. If the club is losing fortunes then ultimately it’s as a result of his decisions.

Do you really think Lachlan Cameron is the only person capable of keeping Ayr United afloat? If he wasn’t in charge our finances would be the responsibility of our new directors/owners. Like directors/owners at every other football club in the country they’d be judged on their success or failure.


 

 

For a club who only attracts around 1,600 - 1,800 home fans each week, I'd say we're doing remarkably well to compete in this league, remain full time and at the same time more or less wipe our feet from a financial perspective.

Surely Cameron has to take the plaudits for that ??

[BukyOHare]

21 minutes ago, Parkhouse said:

 

Because I don’t see Lachlan as the saviour of Ayr United doesn’t mean I’m delusional. Obviously the club has not been flush with cash during the majority of his tenure.

My issue is the one-sided view of things. Lachlan has the controlling interest in Ayr United. He is therefore responsible for the negatives as well as the positives. If the club is losing fortunes then ultimately it’s as a result of his decisions.

Do you really think Lachlan Cameron is the only person capable of keeping Ayr United afloat? If he wasn’t in charge our finances would be the responsibility of our new directors/owners. Like directors/owners at every other football club in the country they’d be judged on their success or failure.


 

 

Firstly, are we losing "fortunes"? I genuinely dont know. What I do know is that the biggest expense of any business is usually wages and other related costs. Are you therefore advocating a further reduction in the playing budget? In football you generally get the product that your budget allows you, not guaranteed of course but generally. We are massively overachieving.

To answer your second point, I honestly haven't noticed anybody willing to step forward and take the club over from him. To that end there has to be seen to be a lack of people willing to do so as opposed to being capable of doing so. You cant have one without the other.

Edited November 12, 2019 by BukyOHare

[Parkhouse]

For a club who only attracts around 1,600 - 1,800 home fans each week, I'd say we're doing remarkably well to compete in this league, remain full time and at the same time more or less wipe our feet from a financial perspective.
Surely Cameron has to take the plaudits for that ??

In my post you quoted I said he has to take responsibility for the negatives and the positives. Not purely be given credit for the good and absolved of responsibility for the bad decisions.

We could be here all day discussing crowd figures. Again, are those running the club absolved of any responsibility for the crowd figures?

[EvilScotsman]

2 hours ago, ayrmad said:

Did the big man not slot away a penalty like a classy thing in a penalty shootout, might even have been the winning one.

Against Killie, no less.

The 0-0 game when Sheerin was sent off in the first half.

I'd thought it was the Dundee game when extra time was played in a blizzard so thick you couldn't see what was happening at the far end.

 

[BukyOHare]

5 minutes ago, Parkhouse said:

Again, are those running the club absolved of any responsibility for the crowd figures?

 

We've got a not too shabby product on the pitch and yet still there isn't a marked increase in home fans over the piece.

How do you get more people to a Championship match in 2019? The club will surely be failing if they aren't discussing this behind closed doors but there isn't a magic wand, ultimately people want to go or they don't.

For a variety of reasons I doubt there are swathes of people swithering whether to go to Somerset every second Saturday.

What about a billboard at the Whitletts roundabout?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Parkhouse said:

 

In my post you quoted I said he has to take responsibility for the negatives and the positives. Not purely be given credit for the good and absolved of responsibility for the bad decisions.

We could be here all day discussing crowd figures. Again, are those running the club absolved of any responsibility for the crowd figures?

 

Our current crowd figures are every bit as good (or bad) as what they were under Barr. I also believe that Cameron couldn't do much more than he's actually done for Ayr without throwing money at the club that he doesn't really have and which again, has no guarantee of success.

The club appears to me to be on a stable and firm footing, we've got a good youth setup, we've taken the catering, stewarding and club shop back in house, the ground is looking pretty decent (especially when compared to the likes of Cappielow and Palmerston), we're now beginning to look more like an established Championship side and for the first time in years we're actually getting positive publicity and have quite a few saleable assets on our books.

Also, if you take a look around the ground on a Saturday, you'll notice lots of young Ayr supporters which again can only be good for our future.

At this current time in relation to our peers (who I'd count as Morton, QOS, Raith & Airdrie) I'd say we're doing great and if you look at the plight of clubs like Falkirk and even Partick Thistle, then I'd say we're doing far far better than could be expected for our budget and income to expenditure ratio.

[Parkhouse]

Firstly, are we losing "fortunes"? I genuinely dont know. What I do know is that the biggest expense of any business is usually wages and other related costs. Are you therefore advocating a further reduction in the playing budget? In football you generally get the product that your budget allows you, not guaranteed of course but generally. We are massively overachieving.
To answer your second point, I honestly haven't noticed anybody willing to step forward and take the club over from him. To that end there has to be seen to be a lack of people willing to do so as opposed to being capable of doing so. You cant have one without the other.

Firstly I didn’t say we WERE losing fortunes, I said IF we were losing fortunes. Either way, IF we are, as the decision maker that’s as a result of decisions Lachlan has made.

There is an alternative to cutting costs. You can increase revenue streams.

No disrespect intended but parties interested in owning Ayr United are unlikely to feel the need to notify ordinary fans like you or me of their interest in doing so. That’s not to say they’re not out there. Lachlan has said he would only sell to the right person/people. He has also indicated he has been approached over the years. We are not privy to what was offered or what has been asked for so it’s hard to say if any of those people were realistic options or if Lachlan is asking for a realistic price for the club. We (or certainly I) don’t know.

Clubs don’t need to have a majority owner. Lachlan’s shareholding could be split amongst potential investors. He could even maintain a smaller shareholding. There are numerous options that could be looked at. Are we really saying Ayr United are the only football club in the country nobody but Lachlan wants to run or has the financial capability to run?

[Skyline Drifter]

50 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

Firstly, are we losing "fortunes"? I genuinely dont know.

You lost about £70k in the year to June 2018, a promotion season from the division below. More or less broke even the year to June 17. You haven't filed accounts to June 19 yet. You are insolvent by about £1.5m and owe about £1.75m to Directors and related companies in 'soft loans'

[ayrunitedfw]

20 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

You lost about £70k in the year to June 2018, a promotion season from the division below. More or less broke even the year to June 17. You haven't filed accounts to June 19 yet. You are insolvent by about £1.5m and owe about £1.75m to Directors and related companies in 'soft loans'

How do similar sized clubs in this division like QOS and Morton compare to that?

[19QOS19]

How do similar sized clubs in this division like QOS and Morton compare to that?

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Parkhouse said:

 

Firstly I didn’t say we WERE losing fortunes, I said IF we were losing fortunes. Either way, IF we are, as the decision maker that’s as a result of decisions Lachlan has made.

There is an alternative to cutting costs. You can increase revenue streams.

No disrespect intended but parties interested in owning Ayr United are unlikely to feel the need to notify ordinary fans like you or me of their interest in doing so. That’s not to say they’re not out there. Lachlan has said he would only sell to the right person/people. He has also indicated he has been approached over the years. We are not privy to what was offered or what has been asked for so it’s hard to say if any of those people were realistic options or if Lachlan is asking for a realistic price for the club. We (or certainly I) don’t know.

Clubs don’t need to have a majority owner. Lachlan’s shareholding could be split amongst potential investors. He could even maintain a smaller shareholding. There are numerous options that could be looked at. Are we really saying Ayr United are the only football club in the country nobody but Lachlan wants to run or has the financial capability to run?

 

Yes, probably.

Only an idiot, a crook, or someone with very deep pockets and a sentimental attachment would get involved with a Scottish football club in ANY division.........