The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[Hazbart]

6 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

Ryan Stevenson has scored in every game for Troon this season and is looking very likely to return to senior football

A 35 year old Ryan Stevenson will be nowhere near senior football, thankfully.

[diegomarahenry]

I thought he was happy where he is and wasn’t interested in moving?

The interview with him in the record says he’s had a few nibbles but at the moment, the only club he’d sign for is Ayr

[D'Jaffo]

The interview with him in the record says he’s had a few nibbles but at the moment, the only club he’d sign for is Ayr

I love the guy but there’s absolutely no way he’ll be back at Ayr. I don’t think he likes McCall anyway.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

Ryan Stevenson has scored in every game for Troon this season and is looking very likely to return to senior football

Jamie Longworth is also banging them in for Ladeside, however he's got about as much chance as Stevenson of making a return to competitive full time senior football.

[trainspotter]

2 hours ago, Thumper said:

uckin' football fans, man. If people had their way then the team would be training by running up and down sand dunes on Greenan shore, chasing that up with three of four tins of Tartan Special before the drive home, and fans would be paying at the game with shillings.

 

[pandarilla]

That’s my point, that he is only signed until Jan. He may not even get in the team once he is fit and we’ve being paying him a wage since June/July. It’s a shame how many injuries he’s had in the last year but as UpInTheAyr said we’re not a charity or a club like the Old Firm who have plenty of money to cover injured players wages 

There's a balance you have to strike and I have complete faith in McCall to handle these matters well.

We absolutely don't want to be seen as a club that lets players go when they have an injury - that's the type of reputation that does lasting damage.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

There's a balance you have to strike and I have complete faith in McCall to handle these matters well.

We absolutely don't want to be seen as a club that lets players go when they have an injury - that's the type of reputation that does lasting damage.
 

Exactly.

Ayr are actually doing lots of things "right" at the moment both on and off the park and personally I don't think I'd want to be associated with any club who just dumps it's employees on the scrapheap if it feels they've outlived their usefulness.

There's no doubt that it's become a cut throat world out there (and I don't just mean football), however treating players right can have positive outcomes such as this 5% sell on clause requested by Rose or getting players to return to your club such as Moffat & Geggan.

Ultimately we're not a charity, however that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be treating your staff with respect and decency even if it doesn't always work out as perfectly as planned.............

[UpInTheAyr]

43 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

There's a balance you have to strike and I have complete faith in McCall to handle these matters well.

We absolutely don't want to be seen as a club that lets players go when they have an injury - that's the type of reputation that does lasting damage.
 

After how the club has stood by Moore the last couple of years I don't think anyone could accuse them of that, even  if he was to be let go in January. Same with Geggan, Doc, Adams & Higgins. Ayr absolutely fulfills it's duty of care to players a hell of a lot more than other clubs.

[Superhursty7]

fully fit Craig Moore will score goals playing in the 433 we played on Saturday, Shankland and Moore did not work as a partnership and Shankland was always going to get the nod unfortunately when he did get the chance he was out of form and struggled but don't forget the Dundee United game after Talbot he was very good and scored the winner, we can't just dump a player who has a very good scoring record 48 goals in 105 games he deserves another chance and hopefully he takes it with both hands.

[BukyOHare]

2 hours ago, Kitty_Boy said:

What sort of statistcal analysis are you thinking about? 

And how would it help identify possible new signings? 

It'd be almost impossible to answer everything in one post but to put things simply, statistical analysis can be as simplistic or in depth as the raw data you have to hand, the time you have to devote to it and the timescales that the manager needs it back.

With games now being recorded, ideally in a wide view, to cover all players in and out of possession, you'll be able to track the effectiveness of each player by the influence they have in games and the positions they take up. This can be presented into graphs, charts and maps for it to be interpreted easily.

Completed passes for example are all good and well but there's more importance for progressive passes in the final 3rd of the pitch as opposed to a deep lying midfielder taking the ball off the back 4 and playing an unpressured square ball.

Tackles, interceptions, aerial duals won, shots on target, successful crosses, distance covered to name but a few can also be included in an all encompassing model. Over a few months, a season or beyond, a management team can begin to build up numbers and values for all of their players. Again this can be displayed in maps or charts for presentations.

From there you can compare the relative strengths and weaknesses against other squad members or to touch on your second point, against future signings. It gives the management team some numbers to back up what their eyes, or hunches, tell them.

Analysis can also be used to scout future opponents to identify strengths, weaknesses and general tactics (eg set piece moves.) Taking that a stage further teams are now developing their own apps to display this information to individuals or to groups in their squad, generally goalkeepers, defenders, midfielders and strikers.

As technology progresses virtual reality headsets will be used during the week as managers and coaches talk their squad through their own tactics and strengths and weaknesses of their opponents.

Fascinating stuff and in simplistic terms if your team go onto the field of play with a more than fair chance of knowing how their opponents are going to line up and its been presented and displayed in an easy to understand manner, then over the course of a season it can be a measurable advantage.

For teams that don't have a huge transfer budget then analysis can be a very important tool in identifying the right players at the right price.

Maupay sold for £20m I see, Brentford had a day or so earlier brought in his replacement for a fraction of that price. They'll have lists of players by position, to cover for their better players leaving. Impressive stuff.

[Pick that one out Marshall]

30 minutes ago, Superhursy7 said:

fully fit Craig Moore will score goals playing in the 433 we played on Saturday, Shankland and Moore did not work as a partnership and Shankland was always going to get the nod unfortunately when he did get the chance he was out of form and struggled but don't forget the Dundee United game after Talbot he was very good and scored the winner, we can't just dump a player who has a very good scoring record 48 goals in 105 games he deserves another chance and hopefully he takes it with both hands.

I agree.

[Jeff Venom]

fully fit Craig Moore will score goals playing in the 433 we played on Saturday, Shankland and Moore did not work as a partnership and Shankland was always going to get the nod unfortunately when he did get the chance he was out of form and struggled but don't forget the Dundee United game after Talbot he was very good and scored the winner, we can't just dump a player who has a very good scoring record 48 goals in 105 games he deserves another chance and hopefully he takes it with both hands.

I agree, particularly with the way Moffat was playing on Saturday. I could see Moore flourishing in that system.

[Iain]

38 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

It'd be almost impossible to answer everything in one post but to put things simply, statistical analysis can be as simplistic or in depth as the raw data you have to hand, the time you have to devote to it and the timescales that the manager needs it back.

With games now being recorded, ideally in a wide view, to cover all players in and out of possession, you'll be able to track the effectiveness of each player by the influence they have in games and the positions they take up. This can be presented into graphs, charts and maps for it to be interpreted easily.

Completed passes for example are all good and well but there's more importance for progressive passes in the final 3rd of the pitch as opposed to a deep lying midfielder taking the ball off the back 4 and playing an unpressured square ball.

Tackles, interceptions, aerial duals won, shots on target, successful crosses, distance covered to name but a few can also be included in an all encompassing model. Over a few months, a season or beyond, a management team can begin to build up numbers and values for all of their players. Again this can be displayed in maps or charts for presentations.

From there you can compare the relative strengths and weaknesses against other squad members or to touch on your second point, against future signings. It gives the management team some numbers to back up what their eyes, or hunches, tell them.

Analysis can also be used to scout future opponents to identify strengths, weaknesses and general tactics (eg set piece moves.) Taking that a stage further teams are now developing their own apps to display this information to individuals or to groups in their squad, generally goalkeepers, defenders, midfielders and strikers.

As technology progresses virtual reality headsets will be used during the week as managers and coaches talk their squad through their own tactics and strengths and weaknesses of their opponents.

Fascinating stuff and in simplistic terms if your team go onto the field of play with a more than fair chance of knowing how their opponents are going to line up and its been presented and displayed in an easy to understand manner, then over the course of a season it can be a measurable advantage.

For teams that don't have a huge transfer budget then analysis can be a very important tool in identifying the right players at the right price.

Maupay sold for £20m I see, Brentford had a day or so earlier brought in his replacement for a fraction of that price. They'll have lists of players by position, to cover for their better players leaving. Impressive stuff.

The media are using new data a lot in the last couple of years. The expected goals stat on match of the day being a good example, but also data on final third entries, heat maps, etc.

[BukyOHare]

11 minutes ago, Iain said:

The media are using new data a lot in the last couple of years. The expected goals stat on match of the day being a good example, but also data on final third entries, heat maps, etc.

I deliberately left expected goals out of my post, the media as you say love it. In effect its figures generated by the quality of chances / shots on target.

The theory being the more you have, the more likely you are to win the game. Groundbreaking stuff!!

In all seriousness it is used, very successfully, by betting syndicates to identify teams who are over/under achieving over a number of games and betting accordingly on their fortunes changing.

[pandarilla]

McCall on sportsound said we tried to get O'Brien (Arbroath CB), and also mentioned an alloa player we were in for (didn't catch who).

Basically making the point that the PT teams have VG players, and will not be easy for anyone.

He also had a nice wee moment with the Killie supporters group spokesman. He had told them that their new ticket system had been used before Sunday - 'the European tie that we don't want to talk about'.

McCall jumped in and said he wanted to talk about it. Banter merchant.

[D'Jaffo]

McCall on sportsound said we tried to get O'Brien (Arbroath CB), and also mentioned an alloa player we were in for (didn't catch who).

Basically making the point that the PT teams have VG players, and will not be easy for anyone.

He also had a nice wee moment with the Killie supporters group spokesman. He had told them that their new ticket system had been used before Sunday - 'the European tie that we don't want to talk about'.

McCall jumped in and said he wanted to talk about it. Banter merchant.

Iain Flannigan was the Alloa player.

[Kitty_Boy]

It'd be almost impossible to answer everything in one post but to put things simply, statistical analysis can be as simplistic or in depth as the raw data you have to hand, the time you have to devote to it and the timescales that the manager needs it back.
With games now being recorded, ideally in a wide view, to cover all players in and out of possession, you'll be able to track the effectiveness of each player by the influence they have in games and the positions they take up. This can be presented into graphs, charts and maps for it to be interpreted easily.
Completed passes for example are all good and well but there's more importance for progressive passes in the final 3rd of the pitch as opposed to a deep lying midfielder taking the ball off the back 4 and playing an unpressured square ball.
Tackles, interceptions, aerial duals won, shots on target, successful crosses, distance covered to name but a few can also be included in an all encompassing model. Over a few months, a season or beyond, a management team can begin to build up numbers and values for all of their players. Again this can be displayed in maps or charts for presentations.
From there you can compare the relative strengths and weaknesses against other squad members or to touch on your second point, against future signings. It gives the management team some numbers to back up what their eyes, or hunches, tell them.
Analysis can also be used to scout future opponents to identify strengths, weaknesses and general tactics (eg set piece moves.) Taking that a stage further teams are now developing their own apps to display this information to individuals or to groups in their squad, generally goalkeepers, defenders, midfielders and strikers.
As technology progresses virtual reality headsets will be used during the week as managers and coaches talk their squad through their own tactics and strengths and weaknesses of their opponents.
Fascinating stuff and in simplistic terms if your team go onto the field of play with a more than fair chance of knowing how their opponents are going to line up and its been presented and displayed in an easy to understand manner, then over the course of a season it can be a measurable advantage.
For teams that don't have a huge transfer budget then analysis can be a very important tool in identifying the right players at the right price.
Maupay sold for £20m I see, Brentford had a day or so earlier brought in his replacement for a fraction of that price. They'll have lists of players by position, to cover for their better players leaving. Impressive stuff.

I doubt statistical analysis is feasible for the Scottish Championship and below due to the absence of any useful raw data.

[BukyOHare]

7 hours ago, Kitty_Boy said:

I doubt statistical analysis is feasible for the Scottish Championship and below due to the absence of any useful raw data.

If matches are recorded then it's possible. I'd be amazed if there aren't other teams in the league doing their own. The raw data is the 90 minutes of action right in front of you.

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by BukyOHare

[Guest]

4 hours ago, BukyOHare said:

If matches are recorded then it's possible. I'd be amazed if there aren't other teams in the league doing their own. The raw data is the 90 minutes of action right in front of you.

 

Without getting too deep into this, I'd say that our playing style which McCall has adopted and indeed adapted in the last couple of years to suit the players at the club and to identify and bring in similar players has worked an absolute treat.

I don't know how much "data" he's using, however whatever way he's done it has proven to work so I'd actually hold up our current MO as a success story without needing to look at Brentford or their relative success. I'm also pretty sure that Cathro tried all this at Tynecastle and failed miserably.

As the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat.....................

[trotsky27]

Just seen You gaffer in Dumfries parked up with s notebook making numerous phone calls