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The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread


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5 hours ago, WATTOO said:

No, you didn't imagine it, Ayr and Killie, St Mirren and Morton were treated the same as the other big rivals in Scotland and would rarely if ever be at home on the same day / weekend.

I assume it would have as much to do with Policing resource as anything else, plus of course they didn't want the fans clashing as there was lots of trouble in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

Why did they change it to allow us and Killie to play at home on the same day? Surely there is still the potential for trouble between fans of both clubs who are maybe travelling on the train down to Ayrshire...well not this season due to no fans being allowed 

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28 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Why did they change it to allow us and Killie to play at home on the same day? Surely there is still the potential for trouble between fans of both clubs who are maybe travelling on the train down to Ayrshire...well not this season due to no fans being allowed 

Hardly any Policing required at games nowadays (apart from games involving the loony pair) and apart from that crowds at our games / likelihood of fans clashing is a lot less nowadays.

It's sad to say, but we're all becoming much more civilised (well, most of the time).

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45 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Why did they change it to allow us and Killie to play at home on the same day? Surely there is still the potential for trouble between fans of both clubs who are maybe travelling on the train down to Ayrshire...well not this season due to no fans being allowed 

Not really likely to be much crossover with the trains. Probably bulk of folk that are going by train likely moved up to Glasgow  or travel via Glasgow. 

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10 hours ago, D'Jaffo said:


In all honesty he needs another year or two at this level. If you signed him right now you’d just end up finding this out for yourself and loaning him back out to a Championship team.

I’ve no doubt he’ll have offers in the summer given he’s out of contract but our chairman has spoken of the importance of keeping our best players for the next 2 or 3 seasons so I’d imagine we’ll make him a very good offer for renewal.

He's 23. If he doesn't step up this Summer, then he'll just become another Blair Alston, who allowed his potential to wither, stepped up too late and hit a brick wall as he couldn't develop any further and had bad habits from lower league football now ingrained into him.

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He's 23. If he doesn't step up this Summer, then he'll just become another Blair Alston, who allowed his potential to wither, stepped up too late and hit a brick wall as he couldn't develop any further and had bad habits from lower league football now ingrained into him.
Similar situation to Alan Forrest he's done well for livi this year at a similar to age difference is Alan was a first team regular from about 17.
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Just now, Superhursy7 said:

Similar situation to Alan Forrest he's done well for livi this year at a similar to age difference is Alan was a first team regular from about 17.

Yeah McCowan started late, and that's fine, but it just means his window is smaller.

Forrest has been in and out Livis side all season with I think a lack of consistency. He gets away with that because he's young and developing. A 25yo in a similar situation is called a dud, and is also less likely to get a deal over 1 season long in the first place.

McCowan is running out of time to take the leap. I really like him and think in the right set up he could be an effective top flight player, potentially even brilliant. But if he stays another 2 years at Ayr he'll be back within 3.

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9 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

He's 23. If he doesn't step up this Summer, then he'll just become another Blair Alston, who allowed his potential to wither, stepped up too late and hit a brick wall as he couldn't develop any further and had bad habits from lower league football now ingrained into him.

I disagree, he barely played your us 3 seasons ago so I’d say one more year wouldn’t hurt him 

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12 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Why did they change it to allow us and Killie to play at home on the same day? Surely there is still the potential for trouble between fans of both clubs who are maybe travelling on the train down to Ayrshire...well not this season due to no fans being allowed 

Was it not with the advent of the SPL? Having two separate bodies creating their own fixture lists? Obviously the SPL cared not a toss about anyone outside their own kingdom.

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He's 23. If he doesn't step up this Summer, then he'll just become another Blair Alston, who allowed his potential to wither, stepped up too late and hit a brick wall as he couldn't develop any further and had bad habits from lower league football now ingrained into him.

There’s nothing to say that he’ll end up “another Blair Alston”. The fact is that he is not ready for Premiership football right now. When Forrest moved he was primed for top flight football.

He could easily wait until he was 24/25 and then step up. He’d probably be able to have clubs down South to pick from as well.
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12 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:


There’s nothing to say that he’ll end up “another Blair Alston”. The fact is that he is not ready for Premiership football right now. When Forrest moved he was primed for top flight football.

He could easily wait until he was 24/25 and then step up. He’d probably be able to have clubs down South to pick from as well.

There seems to be very few lower league winners who successfully make the step up for the first time at 24/25. 

Greg Stewart probably the only example.

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52 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

There seems to be very few lower league winners who successfully make the step up for the first time at 24/25. 

Greg Stewart probably the only example.

I have absolutely no idea where you’re getting this patter from.

Lawrence Shankland, Liam Smith and Shaun Rooney (thought you might remember him) off the top of my head are examples just from this season that are all playing regularly and not looking out of place.

About half the Livingston team as well could fall into that bracket - the likes of Alan Lithgow, Keaghan Jacobs and Josh Mullin managed it alright.

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Luke would 100% benefit form another year with us he has came on loads and I think he could step up playing wise but he still needs to mature a bit when things are not going well he tends to get visibly frustrated and that has probably contributed to his red cards, signing a 2 year deal with us would be a win win for all parties

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2 hours ago, Handofdavid said:

Was it not with the advent of the SPL? Having two separate bodies creating their own fixture lists? Obviously the SPL cared not a toss about anyone outside their own kingdom.

Wonder if the authorities would start caring again if we’re in the same league as them next season! 

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40 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

I have absolutely no idea where you’re getting this patter from.

Lawrence Shankland, Liam Smith and Shaun Rooney (thought you might remember him) off the top of my head are examples just from this season that are all playing regularly and not looking out of place.

About half the Livingston team as well could fall into that bracket - the likes of Alan Lithgow, Keaghan Jacobs and Josh Mullin managed it alright.

I was on about wingers/attacking midfielders. They're generally inconsistent and haven't even nailed a role if they're still in the lower tiers by their mid-20s. Alston and Stewart both examples, one got lucky with a team deciding to give them a free role, the other didn't.

Smith and Shankland were both in double figures for Premiership appearances before they even joined Ayr, so I'm not sure how that's similar to McCowan in terms of stepping up. They both had an idea of how top flight sides operate/top flight players play. McCowan will have to adapt to something new on and off the field quickly.

Mullin didn't step up with Livingston, and is back with them after a few years, after being released by Ross County. If McCowan joins County, is a regular for one season, back up the next, then released for nothing before joining Ayr, would you class him as a success story?

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I was on about wingers/attacking midfielders. They're generally inconsistent and haven't even nailed a role if they're still in the lower tiers by their mid-20s. Alston and Stewart both examples, one got lucky with a team deciding to give them a free role, the other didn't.
Smith and Shankland were both in double figures for Premiership appearances before they even joined Ayr, so I'm not sure how that's similar to McCowan in terms of stepping up. They both had an idea of how top flight sides operate/top flight players play. McCowan will have to adapt to something new on and off the field quickly.
Mullin didn't step up with Livingston, and is back with them after a few years, after being released by Ross County. If McCowan joins County, is a regular for one season, back up the next, then released for nothing before joining Ayr, would you class him as a success story?

If you’re saying McCowan would follow the same path as Mullin then by that logic we’d be in the Premiership as well. So yeah it would be a success.

Tbh we’ll be in the Premiership within two seasons with Hoppyball so he’d be as well staying put and just stepping up with us.
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2 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:


If you’re saying McCowan would follow the same path as Mullin then by that logic we’d be in the Premiership as well. So yeah it would be a success.

Not for him.

He's running out of time to go beyond the top flight IMO.

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Not for him.
He's running out of time to go beyond the top flight IMO.

Such is the disadvantage of starting your career later that normal.

It still doesn’t change the fact that if he was to step up now he’d be out of his depth and simply end up punted back on loan to a Championship team.
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Just now, D'Jaffo said:


Such is the disadvantage of starting your career later that normal.

It still doesn’t change the fact that if he was to step up now he’d be out of his depth and simply end up punted back on loan to a Championship team.

He'd get time to adapt, if he chose wisely though. A 23yo stepping up will be given time to acclimatise/find his role.

If he's 25/26 and stepping up then teams will expect an instant impact.

It's a gamble whether he stays or goes, I just reckon he's better taking the leap now with less pressure/more potential, then later when he'll no longer be classed as a young player and is expected to slot straight in, especially when he's never played top flight football before.

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Such is the disadvantage of starting your career later that normal.

It still doesn’t change the fact that if he was to step up now he’d be out of his depth and simply end up punted back on loan to a Championship team.
I agree that the step up is too big at the moment, but it's certainly not ability that will hold him back. There are loads of less talented players in the top division. It's the other aspects of the game - decision making, consistency, workrate, tracking back etc. Based on what we've done over the past 4 games, I could see him benefiting from another year with us where he'd be challenged to work on all of these areas of his game.
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29 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I was on about wingers/attacking midfielders. They're generally inconsistent and haven't even nailed a role if they're still in the lower tiers by their mid-20s. Alston and Stewart both examples, one got lucky with a team deciding to give them a free role, the other didn't.

Smith and Shankland were both in double figures for Premiership appearances before they even joined Ayr, so I'm not sure how that's similar to McCowan in terms of stepping up. They both had an idea of how top flight sides operate/top flight players play. McCowan will have to adapt to something new on and off the field quickly.

Mullin didn't step up with Livingston, and is back with them after a few years, after being released by Ross County. If McCowan joins County, is a regular for one season, back up the next, then released for nothing before joining Ayr, would you class him as a success story?

I think it’s incredibly generous to include Shankland’s previous top flight games - when he was 19 and nothing like the player he is now - in this context. Everyone knows he only made the step up this season.

Mullin played Championship football with Livingston then Ross County until County won promotion. He was 25 - about to turn 26 - in his first top flight game and has been playing top flight football ever since. I really don’t know why you’re trying to make it out like he’s been dumped back at Championship level - he’s still playing in the Premiership and actually moved to a team that’s far higher up the league than County are now.

Really you’ve just overdone it on the hyperbole to try push your point - there’s plenty examples of players stepping up in their mid 20s. McCowan hasn’t even played a full season of games thanks to coronavirus. I really don’t think there’s any harm in him getting a full season in before taking a step up.

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