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The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

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17 hours ago, rb123! said:

I'm not doubting there's issues, however this is a typical poorly written political piece from the Record which can be taken with a pinch of salt.

Unnamed sources, "have learned", "led to believe", "have it on good authority" etc, etc.

#Armageddon

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7 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Why? We might be struggling at present but are expecting our insurance payment next month. We're also owned by one of the richest people involved in Scottish football - That doesn't mean we're not struggling financially, but other than reasoning of, 'Because it's Dundee' everything suggests we're in one of the safer financial positions in the Championship right now. (Although definitely not secure)

I think you are arguing a point I haven't made, or at least haven't meant and even went on to explain. 

The question was about what Championship clubs were hours away from death. I was looking at the possible runners and riders and discounting them. I said I didn't see Dundee going bust along with Inverness or Morton. 

Without any knowledge I would say that Adams and McGowan are probably in the top 5 wage earners in the Championship. That has to put a strain on the club with no crowds, poor performances will effect people purchasing match streams etc. But as I said in my original post, Dundee have a decent enough size fan base to see them ok regardless of investment, which both clubs know, can disappear very quickly. 

18 hours ago, itzdrk said:

The fans Inverness have are season ticket holders so they've paid already.  That's a cost rather than income.  

Morton are definitely at the edge, David Hopkin was paying (some) players wages and meals, he's gone.  

The Inverness Chairman said that there has been a slow uptake of people wanting to go back. The point was more around the fact the Chairman wasn't sounding the panic alarm on Saturday live on the radio so I doubt he would do in anonymously to a Daily Record journalist a few days later. 

Morton, judging by their thread is more political than financial. A lot of managers pay wages or bonuses out of their own pocket at lower level if they are trying to make a name for themselves and have had a decent playing career.  Neil Watt did it at Ayr so it isn't always the sign of a club struggling financially. If the current owners are playing silly buggers, The PFA and SPFL can intervene if players aren't getting paid and that hasn't been mentioned if it has happened.  

It may take Morton to do what we did post-Barr era to resolve the matter but I don't think Morton will go near liquidation never mind go bust. 

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If the vaccine program goes to plan, those of a high risk of dying will be vaccinated by the end of March. That means that restrictions can be eased as the pressure on the NHS will be less, I would think that most of the country would be on level two type restrictions after that. Then we will be in to the summer where the virus is less likely to spread and the vaccine will be continued to those under 50.

Internally I would expect that next season will be almost back to normal. The problem externally is that everyone in the whole world has to get a vaccine so the UK having 60%-80% of the adult population vaccinated doesn't mean much globally if only a 5th of Americans have had it. So global travel will be impacted for years rather than months. 

The whole thing is buggered if there is several mutations that the vaccine wont immunize against though. 

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See we're getting our very own Netflix style subscription service  Black &  White TV. That's Itzdrk out of business then.

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5 hours ago, HMIP said:

Clubs are ultimately businesses, ones that employ people and make a economic contribution to their communities.  Given the financial support provided to other businesses, why shouldn’t football clubs seek support too?  Morton seem to be the club in greatest distress, and I don’t see much evidence they’ve splashed the cash - on the contrary, they’re taking extraordinary cash cutting measures like operating without a manager.  

They have a massive squad. If they'd only signed players they could afford maybe we would have three points more than we do right now. Who can say?

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33 minutes ago, UpInTheAyr said:

See we're getting our very own Netflix style subscription service  Black &  White TV. That's Itzdrk out of business then.

Unless he is a presenter, I am sure I saw him buying fake tan and a teeth whitening kit today

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I think it’s scandalous if clubs go to wall over this. I had to go to Glasgow the other day for work. Passed Primark and it was heaving, same with Silverburn. Can’t understand why hundreds are allowed inside shops/shopping centres, yet we can’t have 500 folk socially distanced and wearing face coverings OUTSIDE where covid isn’t as prevalent.

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Really is a difficult situation we all, at every club in the lower leagues, find ourselves in. Beginning to look now as if best idea would have been to wait until now to see if we could run a half season from January onwards.

Does anybody think that with the way things are going there may be a possibility the season will have to be ditched to save clubs? Problem is though you can't just shove players out the door and say bye bye to their monthly earnings.

With what's going on at Morton I do really think something radical is going to need to be proposed for how this league functions between now and the end of the season. It's apparent that trundling along to end of the season with 0 fans who just pay for shitty streams isn't going to work.

If you cast back to July/August everyone was really saying that this method of no fans and streams would only work for half a season before money problems would arise and its proven.

Someone, somewhere in Scottish football is going to have questions to answer with why it was agreed to playing 3/4 a season with no guarantee of having fans in at any point. I mean for ourselves in Ayrshire, being so close to central belt and having people who commute to Glasgow area for work, until this is over we're unfortunately going to always be in the higher Covid brackets, so for us it looks impossible to imagine us being in level 1 before May.

This means there will be 0 supporters at any games for a whole season possibly which for a football system which relies on fans being at every game every week is potentially catestrophic.

I know it's a bit of a rant but generally just saying it's become apparent that for all clubs to survive this, could be our own club included, we can't keep carrying on like this until May IMO.

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13 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

I think it’s scandalous if clubs go to wall over this. I had to go to Glasgow the other day for work. Passed Primark and it was heaving, same with Silverburn. Can’t understand why hundreds are allowed inside shops/shopping centres, yet we can’t have 500 folk socially distanced and wearing face coverings OUTSIDE where covid isn’t as prevalent.

Having 500 people in Somerset would be completely pointless as we have more season ticket holders than that so no money to be gained and would end up costing the club money for stewards etc. 

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10 minutes ago, ayrunitedfw said:

Having 500 people in Somerset would be completely pointless as we have more season ticket holders than that so no money to be gained and would end up costing the club money for stewards etc. 

It would cost most clubs. I’m sure the Government could help out with the extra costs though like they’re doing with so many other businesses 🙄. I’m also sure you’d be able to get 20 or so stewards who are fans of the club to do it for free until all this shit comes to an end.  

Also I think if the social distancing was cut to 1metre like it is on the Subway, we’d be able to get 1000 fans in 

Edited by Thereisalight..

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4 hours ago, diegomarahenry said:

I think you are arguing a point I haven't made, or at least haven't meant and even went on to explain. 

The question was about what Championship clubs were hours away from death. I was looking at the possible runners and riders and discounting them. I said I didn't see Dundee going bust along with Inverness or Morton. 

Without any knowledge I would say that Adams and McGowan are probably in the top 5 wage earners in the Championship. That has to put a strain on the club with no crowds, poor performances will effect people purchasing match streams etc. But as I said in my original post, Dundee have a decent enough size fan base to see them ok regardless of investment, which both clubs know, can disappear very quickly. 

The Inverness Chairman said that there has been a slow uptake of people wanting to go back. The point was more around the fact the Chairman wasn't sounding the panic alarm on Saturday live on the radio so I doubt he would do in anonymously to a Daily Record journalist a few days later. 

Morton, judging by their thread is more political than financial. A lot of managers pay wages or bonuses out of their own pocket at lower level if they are trying to make a name for themselves and have had a decent playing career.  Neil Watt did it at Ayr so it isn't always the sign of a club struggling financially. If the current owners are playing silly buggers, The PFA and SPFL can intervene if players aren't getting paid and that hasn't been mentioned if it has happened.  

It may take Morton to do what we did post-Barr era to resolve the matter but I don't think Morton will go near liquidation never mind go bust. 

Point of order re: Charlie Adam

Wanted back up the road for family reasons, Dundee wanted him for obvious reasons - despite being older should still have the legs to stroll around in the Championship and he's 'one of oor own'. Despite the wealth of Dundee's owners they were determined to not break the wage structure for anyone so a it took about a 6 weeks to work out a deal where 3 sponsors are paying most of his wages which in and of itself is a sliver of his last salary.

Now we can debate whether or not that should have been something we should have bothered with when you consider his desire to get home to Dundee, pull on the Dark Blue sweater, and the man's career earnings, but that is a separate discussion. Bottom line is that although he is undoubtedly a high wage earner in the Championship he is not being paid by the club anything out of line or scandalous. As long as Hearts are in this league with the 4th highest budget in Scotland whilst being in the 2nd tier I would doubt Adam is a top 5 earner.

 

Edited by CanadianDee

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37 minutes ago, rb123! said:

Really is a difficult situation we all, at every club in the lower leagues, find ourselves in. Beginning to look now as if best idea would have been to wait until now to see if we could run a half season from January onwards.

Does anybody think that with the way things are going there may be a possibility the season will have to be ditched to save clubs? Problem is though you can't just shove players out the door and say bye bye to their monthly earnings.

With what's going on at Morton I do really think something radical is going to need to be proposed for how this league functions between now and the end of the season. It's apparent that trundling along to end of the season with 0 fans who just pay for shitty streams isn't going to work.

If you cast back to July/August everyone was really saying that this method of no fans and streams would only work for half a season before money problems would arise and its proven.

Someone, somewhere in Scottish football is going to have questions to answer with why it was agreed to playing 3/4 a season with no guarantee of having fans in at any point. I mean for ourselves in Ayrshire, being so close to central belt and having people who commute to Glasgow area for work, until this is over we're unfortunately going to always be in the higher Covid brackets, so for us it looks impossible to imagine us being in level 1 before May.

This means there will be 0 supporters at any games for a whole season possibly which for a football system which relies on fans being at every game every week is potentially catestrophic.

I know it's a bit of a rant but generally just saying it's become apparent that for all clubs to survive this, could be our own club included, we can't keep carrying on like this until May IMO.

Someone made a point at the weekend that every industry is struggling and there is money in football, what are the governing bodies doing to help clubs, what money could UEFA or FIFA provide to clubs. They have cut smaller nations spots in the Champions League to generate billions so maybe it is time to start paying some of it back. 

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38 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

Someone made a point at the weekend that every industry is struggling and there is money in football, what are the governing bodies doing to help clubs, what money could UEFA or FIFA provide to clubs. They have cut smaller nations spots in the Champions League to generate billions so maybe it is time to start paying some of it back. 

Good point.

Yeah, UEFA had cash reserves of circa £0.5 billion. Dunno how much they have actually offered up due to covid-19.

I'm not too sure about FIFA - I think Seb Blatter took it all.  You'd imagine they would have considerably more than UEFA although it would have to stretch even further.

Edited by Trogdor

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7 hours ago, diegomarahenry said:

Someone made a point at the weekend that every industry is struggling and there is money in football, what are the governing bodies doing to help clubs, what money could UEFA or FIFA provide to clubs. They have cut smaller nations spots in the Champions League to generate billions so maybe it is time to start paying some of it back. 

Keep reading rumours that the Scottish govt is sitting on covid cash which hasn’t found a home yet. The relevant football minister is clinging onto his job after the drug death figures so not sure football is high up on his list of priorities . UEFA or fifa may well have cash but it would be a long queue and these sort of bodies seem to have favourites. Doncaster and co don’t strike me as the sort to be at the front. Think most help would need to come from within the game itself. If enough clubs were in trouble and it became a large enough story then the govt might then do something 

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10 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

It would cost most clubs. I’m sure the Government could help out with the extra costs though like they’re doing with so many other businesses 🙄. I’m also sure you’d be able to get 20 or so stewards who are fans of the club to do it for free until all this shit comes to an end.  

Also I think if the social distancing was cut to 1metre like it is on the Subway, we’d be able to get 1000 fans in 

Sadly the Scottish Government doesn't have the pot of gold, they would need to approach Westminster for additional funding. Which is fine when we're paying in but normally a battle and a half to get anything back out. As you will have read over the months they've been asking until they are blue in the face for additional funds but Westminster has consistently said now. That was until England went back into lockdown. Based upon that it will take clubs south of the border going to the wall for it to become an issue for funding. 

We are also moving into an election year so it isn't in Westminster's interests to support the Scottish Government who they are going to actively campaign against a few months down the line. Hence why you have the usual political commentators and rags lining up to take pot shots all of a sudden with plenty of unsubstantiated easy headlines. 

Fwiw I genuinely think it is scandalous that shops like Primark are allowed to be open at present as they don't strike me as being essential. Food and pharmacies would be the two most essential. It is very easy to build any argument against them being open as it really isn't fair on other businesses, whether football, hospitality etc. But at the same time two wrongs don't make a right. As pointed out 500 fans being allowed back in sounds great but the club would likely lose money due to this. I don't know the breakeven gate, none of us will, but in previous years gone by people have spoken about the board budgeting on numbers around 1800-2400. Which would account for our season ticket holders money being in the bank already and then relying on PATG / catering / programmes etc. 

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I would expect the biggest income streams are Season Tickets, PATG, Prize Money, Advertising, Merchandise and game day sales (ie catering, programmes, hospitality etc)

From what I understand Season tickets are about the same as last year, Prize money should be similar, decent run in the Scottish cup could see more. Advertising and Merchandise I would assume would stay the same, and  may even be up given the new strip and maybe people buying online to help the club but thats all guess work, could be down given no fans near the ground making in person purchases.

So the biggest loses would be PATG which has been replaced by streaming income, back of a fag packet say PATG is 750 fans at £20 so £15k home game, streaming say 350 buys at £12 is £4k so losing £11k per home game so approx £180k for the year. No idea on match day revenue but I would assume income is going to be down approx £200 - 250k for the year as a rough estimate.

As a general point would be interested to see they figures for streaming to see if it is getting close to actual crowds in terms of numbers, whether there has been an increase in away fans etc

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There is not a normal match day crowd streaming each home game, it's quite a bit down. 

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16 hours ago, UpInTheAyr said:

See we're getting our very own Netflix style subscription service  Black &  White TV. That's Itzdrk out of business then.

Not at all :lol:

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19 hours ago, diegomarahenry said:

Unless he is a presenter, I am sure I saw him buying fake tan and a teeth whitening kit today

And a few sports jackets & blazers.

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