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The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

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I didn’t buy the stream on Saturday and by all accounts I’m glad I didn’t. Surely clubs knew how much of a shambles pixelott was going to be if it follows baldies rather than the football 😑 how many clubs are using this system?

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33 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

I didn’t buy the stream on Saturday and by all accounts I’m glad I didn’t. Surely clubs knew how much of a shambles pixelott was going to be if it follows baldies rather than the football 😑 how many clubs are using this system?

Think it might only be Inverness, Alloa and maybe Arbroath? Alloa have ordered a joystick so they can manually control the camera, it just hasn't arrived yet, which will probably make a huge difference.  

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Listened to a bit of the ICT podcast.  Bit concerned to hear Walsh’s hamstring problem is a recurrence of a problem he had last season.  

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1 hour ago, Hawk89 said:

Think it might only be Inverness, Alloa and maybe Arbroath? Alloa have ordered a joystick so they can manually control the camera, it just hasn't arrived yet, which will probably make a huge difference.  

In this division, yes. Most of the clubs in lower divisions are using Pixellot though.

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The SPFL won't be hosting that out of the goodness of their heart, they'll be taking a cut to pay for hosting and handling payments. To be honest I'm maybe going to take the moral low ground here and say the service was crap, I expect to be able to watch the game not a linesman. We missed quite a few key moments of the match because of it, Albion Rovers in the Betfred was different to me because it was very early in the process.

 

We are now getting to the stage where a watchable product is expected, it doesn't have to be a multi cam, half time punditry Sky / BT effort. Just being able to watch 90 minutes instead of 75 minutes of football and 15 of linesman or any car crossing the Kessock bridge is all I expect. The commentary is an easy fix, if you like it keep the sound on, if you don't mute it. Whereas the visuals are the key aspect here. Inverness must have known about the issues other clubs have had so far with the system, there is little excuse to not try rectify and use learning from other clubs. As mentioned on the match thread it was mounted in the wrong place, the club asked for it to be setup on the bridge side, so they clearly know the product isn't fit for purpose. 

 

 

 

The SPFL won't be hosting that out of the goodness of their heart, they'll be taking a cut to pay for hosting and handling payments. To be honest I'm maybe going to take the moral low ground here and say the service was crap, I expect to be able to watch the game not a linesman. We missed quite a few key moments of the match because of it, Albion Rovers in the Betfred was different to me because it was very early in the process.

 

We are now getting to the stage where a watchable product is expected, it doesn't have to be a multi cam, half time punditry Sky / BT effort. Just being able to watch 90 minutes instead of 75 minutes of football and 15 of linesman or any car crossing the Kessock bridge is all I expect. The commentary is an easy fix, if you like it keep the sound on, if you don't mute it. Whereas the visuals are the key aspect here. Inverness must have known about the issues other clubs have had so far with the system, there is little excuse to not try rectify and use learning from other clubs. As mentioned on the match thread it was mounted in the wrong place, the club asked for it to be setup on the bridge side, so they clearly know the product isn't fit for purpose. 

 

 

 

The spfl aren't taking any money from streaming as far as I know. Obviously there are costs involved but the clubs receive the money after they are paid. In that respect its no different to the setups other clubs have.

 

The pixellot cameras were installed by the SPFL. ICT will have had some involvement but they wouldn't have an opportunity to "learn from others" and rectify anything. The clubs don't have much control over the spfl system.

 

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All-in-all it was a complete joke of a coverage.

To actually charge real money for what came across no more than a security camera short-circuiting is embarrassing beyond belief.

This is the second tier of our national game!!!

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3 hours ago, Mr X said:

 

 

 

The spfl aren't taking any money from streaming as far as I know. Obviously there are costs involved but the clubs receive the money after they are paid. In that respect its no different to the setups other clubs have.

 

The pixellot cameras were installed by the SPFL. ICT will have had some involvement but they wouldn't have an opportunity to "learn from others" and rectify anything. The clubs don't have much control over the spfl system.

 

If you are running a business you don't just sit and twiddle your thumbs. You look around you to see what others are doing and what is working well and isn't working well. You also look at the comments from both your own and their customers to see what they like and dislike about the services/products being provided. It has been no secret for over a month now that this system is junk as standard and needs fine tuning. Alloa have already brought in a contingency option to try improve things, surely to god ICT and the wider footballing community in Scotland aren't totally blinkered. 

There is not much Albion Rovers, who we faced in the Betfred, can do about their system other than try the joystick option due to where the camera is positioned. This isn't a problem at the Tulloch as the camera is high enough up to catch all but vertical kicks, they should have been testing it and working on fixes to already known issues. It is understandable why their season ticket holders are rightly angry. 

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Perhaps in poor taste but if Pixielot are an example of what AI will bring to our lives, then self-drive cars will cause multiple pile-ups and deaths by the hundred if let loose on our roads.

Yes, the ICT Pixielot coverage was that bad and I won't be spending any more pennies on PPV if the service provider in question is Pixielot. The one good thing about it is how it has emphasised the more than decent coverage by AUmedia for our first league game against QoS. I'm possibly one of the few who actually likes commentary - Callum and Lauren know their stuff and are always well prepared in knowing each player (us and opposition) so that they enhance the experience rather than what we got on Saturday at Inverness. They are both good at giving out praise to the opposition when praise is due; Lauren in particular is a very good and knowledgeable summariser of anything that goes on and Callum does a very professional job in covering all the action as it develops. They are both well worth listening to.    

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43 minutes ago, Hawk89 said:

If you are running a business you don't just sit and twiddle your thumbs. You look around you to see what others are doing and what is working well and isn't working well. You also look at the comments from both your own and their customers to see what they like and dislike about the services/products being provided. It has been no secret for over a month now that this system is junk as standard and needs fine tuning. Alloa have already brought in a contingency option to try improve things, surely to god ICT and the wider footballing community in Scotland aren't totally blinkered. 

There is not much Albion Rovers, who we faced in the Betfred, can do about their system other than try the joystick option due to where the camera is positioned. This isn't a problem at the Tulloch as the camera is high enough up to catch all but vertical kicks, they should have been testing it and working on fixes to already known issues. It is understandable why their season ticket holders are rightly angry. 

I think you've missed my point. It isnt ICTs system to fine tune, its the SPFLs.

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4 hours ago, Mr X said:

I think you've missed my point. It isnt ICTs system to fine tune, its the SPFLs.

ICT could fine tune it though by not using it! We don’t use it, probably because we knew it would be an absolute crock of shit for a start. There’s nothing stopping clubs using their own cameras and streaming rather than using the pig in a poke 

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42 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

ICT could fine tune it though by not using it! We don’t use it, probably because we knew it would be an absolute crock of shit for a start. There’s nothing stopping clubs using their own cameras and streaming rather than using the pig in a poke 

Im not sure you know what "fine tune" means :unsure2:

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According to AP Tom Walsh out for Saturday with Dario Zanatta rated as 50/50 again. Jordan Houston nearing a start.

Cammy Smith also sounded very open for staying with us longer if his loan spell goes well. 

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The only possible explanation for Houston is he picked up an injury and missed most of preseason hence him being so far behind everyone else.

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6 hours ago, Hawk89 said:

If you are running a business you don't just sit and twiddle your thumbs. You look around you to see what others are doing and what is working well and isn't working well. You also look at the comments from both your own and their customers to see what they like and dislike about the services/products being provided. It has been no secret for over a month now that this system is junk as standard and needs fine tuning. Alloa have already brought in a contingency option to try improve things, surely to god ICT and the wider footballing community in Scotland aren't totally blinkered. 

There is not much Albion Rovers, who we faced in the Betfred, can do about their system other than try the joystick option due to where the camera is positioned. This isn't a problem at the Tulloch as the camera is high enough up to catch all but vertical kicks, they should have been testing it and working on fixes to already known issues. It is understandable why their season ticket holders are rightly angry. 

 

6 hours ago, Mr X said:

I think you've missed my point. It isnt ICTs system to fine tune, its the SPFLs.

And, like other clubs, the timing of installation and testing is out of their hands. I've no idea when Inverness got their system in, and I accept as the only sign up in the Championship to the full SPFL service they should have been prioritised, but I think they were one of the latest to actually be installed. Ours wasn't working for any of our Betfred Cup ties either due to the lateness of attempts to instal it and problems encountered. Nobody really noticed because we weren't using it for public streaming but if we had been then we'd have had no Betfred coverage and no opportunity at all to look at anything before the 1st league game. For all we know Inverness were in the same position.

There's little point in blindly criticising a club for something that isn't in their control. Pixelot has its uses and the opportunity to use it to solve a coincidental problem has been a Godsend for some but it also has lots of obvious flaws.

1 hour ago, Thereisalight.. said:

ICT could fine tune it though by not using it! We don’t use it, probably because we knew it would be an absolute crock of shit for a start. There’s nothing stopping clubs using their own cameras and streaming rather than using the pig in a poke 

They could. But it still requires a 4G signal or fibre installed during a pandemic which might conceivably not already be there (maybe it was, I wouldn't know). And it requires someone who knows what they are doing to have the time to do it and a significant investment in hardware for a club that has been losing hundreds of thousands over the last 2 or 3 years. I have no idea if Inverness have these resources but the chances are that they may not. It's easy to get smug about it if you are one of the clubs like Ayr, Raith, Dunfermline, Falkirk, etc who have had semi pro media tv services for years and could adapt quickly. We got lucky in that @Mr X had a suitable opportunity to lead our project (if it had happened a month later we'd have had a much greater problem) and we were gratefully able to link up with our colleagues at Dunfermline to use a system that already had been tried and tested to an extent. It's far from easy to just set up from scratch.

 

Having said all of that, none of that is a reason not to request a refund if you feel the product was not fit for purpose. I'm just saying that attacks on ICT for things that were highly likely out of their control are not productive.

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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29 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

And, like other clubs, the timing of installation and testing is out of their hands. I've no idea when Inverness got their system in, and I accept as the only sign up in the Championship to the full SPFL service they should have been prioritised, but I think they were one of the latest to actually be installed. Ours wasn't working for any of our Betfred Cup ties either due to the lateness of attempts to instal it and problems encountered. Nobody really noticed because we weren't using it for public streaming but if we had been then we'd have had no Betfred coverage and no opportunity at all to look at anything before the 1st league game. For all we know Inverness were in the same position.

There's little point in blindly criticising a club for something that isn't in their control. Pixelot has its uses and the opportunity to use it to solve a coincidental problem has been a Godsend for some but it also has lots of obvious flaws.

They could. But it still requires a 4G signal or fibre installed during a pandemic which might conceivably not already be there (maybe it was, I wouldn't know). And it requires someone who knows what they are doing to have the time to do it and a significant investment in hardware for a club that has been losing hundreds of thousands over the last 2 or 3 years. I have no idea if Inverness have these resources but the chances are that they may not. It's easy to get smug about it if you are one of the clubs like Ayr, Raith, Dunfermline, Falkirk, etc who have had semi pro media tv services for years and could adapt quickly. We got lucky in that @Mr X had a suitable opportunity to lead our project (if it had happened a month later we'd have had a much greater problem) and we were gratefully able to link up with our colleagues at Dunfermline to use a system that already had been tried and tested to an extent. It's far from easy to just set up from scratch.

 

Having said all of that, none of that is a reason not to request a refund if you feel the product was not fit for purpose. I'm just saying that attacks on ICT for things that were highly likely out of their control are not productive.

I find it incredible that a team like ICT who were in the top flight not so long ago wouldn’t have the sufficient “hardware” compared to Raith etc. 

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41 minutes ago, ayrunitedfw said:

According to AP Tom Walsh out for Saturday with Dario Zanatta rated as 50/50 again. Jordan Houston nearing a start.

Cammy Smith also sounded very open for staying with us longer if his loan spell goes well. 

I hope to fck the Walsh situation isn’t going to be like the “Adams is a week away from playing” one a few seasons back, which turned into about 3 months 

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51 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

I find it incredible that a team like ICT who were in the top flight not so long ago wouldn’t have the sufficient “hardware” compared to Raith etc. 

I fail to see how what league they were in a few years ago (and this is now their 4th season here) is relevant. They weren't streaming then (or not to any extent) and it's likely any IT product required for it 4 years+ ago is now obsolete. Raith have always had an excellent tv set up because they happen to have a set of dedicated volunteer fans with the particular area of technical knowledge and have produced a product well above the expected quality for a club at their level for years. Ayr too have been blessed with willing and able volunteers to do that for them. I don't know why you'd assume a club like Inverness, which is ultimately not particularly better supported, would automatically have the same. It's perfectly "credible" that they would not.

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7 hours ago, D'Jaffo said:

The only possible explanation for Houston is he picked up an injury and missed most of preseason hence him being so far behind everyone else.

He picked up a thigh injury blocking a tackle and think he missed about 2 weeks worth of sessions 

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8 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I fail to see how what league they were in a few years ago (and this is now their 4th season here) is relevant. They weren't streaming then (or not to any extent) and it's likely any IT product required for it 4 years+ ago is now obsolete. Raith have always had an excellent tv set up because they happen to have a set of dedicated volunteer fans with the particular area of technical knowledge and have produced a product well above the expected quality for a club at their level for years. Ayr too have been blessed with willing and able volunteers to do that for them. I don't know why you'd assume a club like Inverness, which is ultimately not particularly better supported, would automatically have the same. It's perfectly "credible" that they would not.

Agreed, I think its more relevant for other aspects like undersoil heating and automated sprinklers. However, as you say these items have no bearing on their streaming output. Also, given their financial issues its not surprising they went for an option with minimal up front cost. It'll be interesting to see if they try to improve the offering in any way. At £10 it is cheap but it bordered on unwatchable.

I'm very interested to see how Alloa get on with the manual control. If that works it would improve it immeasurably. Although ICT's camera placement was horrific which you can't do much about. I guess with manual control you could tilt it downwards so it wasn't pointing at the sun right enough. 😆

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Don't exactly agree with these new lockdown tier stages in each different council region as it means some teams will be able to have fans at stadiums. For example in our league Inverness and Queen of the South would be the two places most likely to have fans.

How's that fair on the other 8 teams if they can get a small fan income meanwhile nobody else can?

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