The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[ayrunitedfw]

25 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

It does. It might not be intentional but for years black footballers get labelled with the same criticisms and even praises from fans and pundits.

When they’re shite they get labelled lazy or petulant and when we praise them it’s always about their physical attributes and how strong they are.

Unfortunately we live in a time and place where racism is so deeply imbedded in our culture that half of the racists genuinely have no idea that what they’re saying is racist or stereotypical.

I disagree and think it’s a dangerous road to go down if we’re starting labelling people racists due to them criticising Tomi. 
 

Sean McGinty, for example has got tons of abuse but I’ve not heard anyone being accused of being anti English due to this as it’s simply not relevant. 

[D'Jaffo]

Compare it to Craig Moore. He took a fair amount of stick on Twitter and on here for his penalty miss against Alloa. Even then it was over the top. Could you imagine the reaction on the SRE page if that had been Adeloye?

He’s definitely there to be criticised for certain things and I thought there was a spell under Duffy where the guy did not look in the least bit interested but that was more down to being disillusioned with where the club was going. Bullen came in, he didn’t appear for a wee while, and then came back twice the player he was when he joined the club. I don’t think there was any falling out between the two but I think Bullen wanted to make sure Adeloye knew exactly what was expected of him. He gets a lot more involved in the build up compared to the start of the season and I think he’d thrive along side a natural goalscorer or poacher. Someone like Billy McKay (won’t happen) or Jack Hamilton.

[No_Problemo]

4 minutes ago, ayrunitedfw said:

I disagree and think it’s a dangerous road to go down if we’re starting labelling people racists due to them criticising Tomi. 
 

Sean McGinty, for example has got tons of abuse but I’ve not heard anyone being accused of being anti English due to this as it’s simply not relevant. 

Surely the difference here is blatantly obvious? McGinty was shambolic for most of the season, and hasn’t got any criticism recently. Tomi has dragged us through most of the season, and has got constant criticism. 

ETA, just noticing D’Jaffo’s point above - I don’t think that he didn’t get involved in the build up play at the start of the season - there just wasn’t any and he had no one to link up with. The one game where we did look to attack (Dundee United) he was very involved in our build up play. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by No_Problemo

[ayrunitedfw]

3 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

Surely the difference here is blatantly obvious? McGinty was shambolic for most of the season, and hasn’t got any criticism recently. Tomi has dragged us through most of the season, and has got constant criticism. 

ETA, just noticing D’Jaffo’s point above - I don’t think that he didn’t get involved in the build up play at the start of the season - there just wasn’t any and he had no one to link up with. The one game where we did look to attack (Dundee United) he was very involved in our build up play. 

I completely agree that the criticism that Tomi had got is out of order but I personally don’t think it’s got anything to do with his skin colour. 
 

I’d imagine the club are also in agreement or the people who were giving him a hard time during the stream would of been removed. 

[D'Jaffo]

This is where it gets increasingly difficult to tackle the subject because on one hand you don’t want to label everyone a racist because it has very strong connotations but when you listen to why people don’t like Adeloye it’s very clearly racial stereotyping that they’re doing as I said above and that in itself is technically racist.

McGinty gets criticised because he’s a clumsy big carthorse and people will describe him as such or similar. That’s not stereotypical to English footballers though.

Calling Adeloye lazy, petulant, disruptive is very much stereotypical to black footballers and is also entirely untrue.

[No_Problemo]

16 minutes ago, ayrunitedfw said:

I completely agree that the criticism that Tomi had got is out of order but I personally don’t think it’s got anything to do with his skin colour. 
 

I’d imagine the club are also in agreement or the people who were giving him a hard time during the stream would of been removed. 

Ultimately we are never going to know the intentions of people, whether that is sub conscious or otherwise. Some people do need to have a period of reflection though, and question why they are targeting the player who transforms our team when he plays - as opposed to any of a number who have been awful all season. 

[Thereisalight..]

We have quite a few morons in our support but any criticism of Tomi is not due to skin colour imo. We can call players lazy, shite, garbage etc but it's based on their performances on the pitch. Look at Kevin Kyle, Craig Beattie, McGinty, Markus etc etc. 

[No_Problemo]

2 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

We have quite a few morons in our support but any criticism of Tomi is not due to skin colour imo. We can call players lazy, shite, garbage etc but it's based on their performances on the pitch. Look at Kevin Kyle, Craig Beattie, McGinty, Markus etc etc. 

But all of those players were or have been utter shite/had no interest and were collecting a last wage. This isn’t based on his performances...

As D’Jaffo said, it is the tropes around attitude issues, laziness etc which are the go to for people. 

[North British]

Tomi Adeloye won three awards on Saturday night  . Voted by the players and supporters of our club . It’s safe to say he is loved by our people . Over and above what he does on the field for us he seems to be a classy guy as well . Let’s bin this talk of racism at Ayr United ffs . Mud sticks sometimes , much more of this nonsense and certain players won’t want to come here . Interesting that the fans were singing songs about Gondoh that seemed to go for ever on Saturday.  A guy that wasn’t even playing ! 

[Roxanne's man]

1 hour ago, Thereisalight.. said:

We can call players lazy, shite, garbage etc but it's based on their performances on the pitch. Look at Kevin Kyle, Craig Beattie, McGinty, Markus etc etc. 

Kevin Kyle and Craig Beattie were well and truly past it when at Ayr.

McGinty came to the club with an already poor reputation, so was already going to be a scapegoat. Some of his performances have been nothing short of dire this season. 

As for Adeloye, I think the only thing that's bothered him the whole time is his sheer lack of delivery. Fed up looking.

He's nobody to play alongside him, no one to play off. He probably gets fed up with it, which sometimes may show in his attitude. He's receiving long balls with the constant expectation of scoring Goals. When he scores, he scores a great goal

[Thumper]

3 hours ago, ayrunitedfw said:

Sean McGinty, for example has got tons of abuse but I’ve not heard anyone being accused of being anti English due to this as it’s simply not relevant. 

Sean McGinty is a fucking liability. Adaloye is the only reason the club weren't relegated at Christmas.

[Thumper]

2 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

We have quite a few morons in our support but any criticism of Tomi is not due to skin colour imo. We can call players lazy, shite, garbage etc but it's based on their performances on the pitch. Look at Kevin Kyle, Craig Beattie, McGinty, Markus etc etc. 

Let's look at the black POTY, literally the only striker worth the name at the club, and compare him to all of the worst acknowledged forwards in the last decade.

[Trogdor]

5 hours ago, Richey Edwards said:

I'd personally give him the opportunity to get us back up if we go down.

To be fair, the mess this season has not been his fault.

Our home record is abysmal - last home win was 8th Jan. We're now one league win in our last eight games. If we go down that run will be worse. He'll be in the same territory as Duffy and Kerr were, when they were emptied. Only we'll be relegated to boot.

Moreover, he's repeatedly picked cautious teams to our detriment. If we go down I'd sack him but I'd have sacked McCall at the end of 2016/17 so I admittedly know f**k all.

I get the argument about keeping him but I'm not convinced he's the solution to be honest. I think the bar has been lowered by the shitshow presided over by Hopkin and Duffy.

Hopefully he keeps us up. It's in our hands, we just need to better Dunfermlines results in the last two games. If Bullen can do that I'm all for him staying. 

[super_carson]

I thought McGinty was Irish. If I'd known he was English I'd have ramped up the abuse.

He's from the South-East of England but played youth for Ireland.

https://runrepeat.com/racial-bias-study-soccer. This is a link to some info about a study regarding racial bias in commentary for anyone that's interested btw.

Don't think it's necessarily as simple as saying it's explicit racism, but I don't think it's a stretch to say subconscious bias is a factor in some of the comments.

To criticise a 14 goal striker (so far) at this level is madness regardless, we'd have been dead and buried without him and people need to appreciate that.

[No_Problemo]

10 minutes ago, super_carson said:

He's from the South-East of England but played youth for Ireland.

https://runrepeat.com/racial-bias-study-soccer. This is a link to some info about a study regarding racial bias in commentary for anyone that's interested btw.
 

I think it’s something that AU media could do with some input on, in terms of a learning experience. 

“Commentators help shape the perception we hold of each player, deepening any racial bias already held by the viewer. It’s important to consider how far-reaching those perceptions can be and how they impact footballers even once they finish their playing career.”

Edited April 18, 2022 by No_Problemo

[super_carson]

I think it’s something that AU media could do with some input on, in terms of a learning experience. 

Absolutely - some of the folk are quite young and I wouldn't say they are being racist as such but being a bit more aware of bias might help with some of the stereotypes.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Superhursy7 said:

9 hours ago, D said:

It does. It might not be intentional but for years black footballers get labelled with the same criticisms and even praises from fans and pundits.

When they’re shite they get labelled lazy or petulant and when we praise them it’s always about their physical attributes and how strong they are.

Unfortunately we live in a time and place where racism is so deeply imbedded in our culture that half of the racists genuinely have no idea that what they’re saying is racist or stereotypical.

100% this black players are tagged with the strong and agresive and white guys intelligent and skillfully not saying we have supporters calling him the N word but wither on purpose or not he's getting abused for stuff that for example Ashford or Moff would not

I'm just not seeing this "colour" nonsense at all and also don't think Tomi gets half the abuse that some seem to make out.

For what it's worth, myself and all the guys I stand with believe him to be our best forward player by quite some way and if anything I believe he may get some criticism due to him quite often giving the impression of him underachieving and being the frustrating type due to his undoubted talent.

As I say, all this racism talk is just garbage as the guys who get most abuse (by quite some way) are McGinty and Houston but of course since they're white nobody could ever use this nonsensical accusation or insinuation for the reason for the abuse.

Personally I couldn't give a toss about skin colour, religion, nationality or political views that any of our players hold as for me it's about performing for Ayr United and I'm pretty sure that 99% of my fellow honest men are the same, so can we please stop all this baseless nonsense now and just get on to supporting the team (all of them) as we try and keep our Championship status, as right now, that's all that really matters...

[D'Jaffo]

I'm just not seeing this "colour" nonsense at all and also don't think Tomi gets half the abuse that some seem to make out.
For what it's worth, myself and all the guys I stand with believe him to be our best forward player by quite some way and if anything I believe he may get some criticism due to him quite often giving the impression of him underachieving and being the frustrating type due to his undoubted talent.
As I say, all this racism talk is just garbage as the guys who get most abuse (by quite some way) are McGinty and Houston but of course since they're white nobody could ever use this nonsensical accusation or insinuation for the reason for the abuse.
Personally I couldn't give a toss about skin colour, religion, nationality or political views that any of our players hold as for me it's about performing for Ayr United and I'm pretty sure that 99% of my fellow honest men are the same, so can we please stop all this baseless nonsense now and just get on to supporting the team (all of them) as we try and keep our Championship status, as right now, that's all that really matters...

“This colour nonsense”. Way to undermine a perfectly reasonable and based discussion on ignorant and lazy racial stereotypes.

If it’s too hard for you to discuss then I’m sorry but it’s something that very much needs to be spoken about.

[diegomarahenry]

There are racial stereotypes that should just be avoided in any public forum. AUMedia have stumbled on one, consciously, unconsciously or unintentionally. 

As far as I am aware, they haven't persisted with it so giving the benefit of the doubt, it was unintentional. 

Adeloye isn't lazy, I saw him getting bood off the park in a game against Morton where we didn't have a shot on goal, there was quarter of a pitch between Adeloye and the midfield. Because of the way we set up, Morton were able to put 2 centre halfs on Adeloye  so any ball played to him was picked off. I'm sure it must have been a frustrating afternoon for him as well as the fans. He could have looked lazy but there was absolutely no point in him being on the park the way we were playing. 

This season has been every bit the shitshow last season was but there are at least aspects of this team that are likable.  Adeloye is getting in to positions but taking a small % of them, he is the only one getting in to positions and that is a wider problem. having someone scoring regularly near him would help take the pressure off him. 

[Thumper]

8 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Our home record is abysmal - last home win was 8th Jan. We're now one league win in our last eight games. If we go down that run will be worse. He'll be in the same territory as Duffy and Kerr were, when they were emptied. Only we'll be relegated to boot.

Moreover, he's repeatedly picked cautious teams to our detriment. If we go down I'd sack him but I'd have sacked McCall at the end of 2016/17 so I admittedly know f**k all.

I get the argument about keeping him but I'm not convinced he's the solution to be honest. I think the bar has been lowered by the shitshow presided over by Hopkin and Duffy.

Hopefully he keeps us up. It's in our hands, we just need to better Dunfermlines results in the last two games. If Bullen can do that I'm all for him staying. 

I expect him to stay, but I also expect to get relegated, and in either case I also expect a near-complete clearout of the dressing room (good and bad). The mandate will then be to go straight back up with an XI assembled from scratch, in a seaside league which looks more like quicksand with every passing year. Any indication of pulling a Falkirk will need to be rapidly dealt with at that point.

Really thought he'd be better than this. I agree that it very much looks like he underestimated the challenge.