The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[ayrunitedfw]

I must admit I’m pretty concerned about the managerial situation at the moment. It’s quite clear that Jim Duffy is not the long term answer. It’s quite clear he got the job as he stabilised us ( 7 points out of 9 in his 1st 3 games) when he came in and the board didn’t think there was anyone better out there however how can the board be sure that there is going to be a better option avaliable in the summer? 

[Sortmeout]

On 31/10/2021 at 20:11, edinburghhonestman said:

On 31/10/2021 at 20:03, THEHonestman1910 said:

Well, when he first came into the club, he said that he would've been disappointed if took us 10 years to get into the SPL, meaning that he was probably thinking around 7/8 years. That is his long term ambition for the football club. 

And to use the term I hate when applied to football teams - that's a 'project'. And a project needs vision, as well as some stability. That's not Duffy. While he might be getting more out of a limited squad than Hopkin he's not the answer and at some point we're going to have to identify who is.

Do you not think that is a bit of an issue with football fans in general though.

Lets say Ayr hired a manager in the summer who said we are probably going to be fighting relegation for a few years but by 2025 I think I’ll have us fighting for playoffs and I’ll get you into the Premiership by 2028. Fans just wouldn’t accept the few years of crap - as evidenced by you guys already looking beyond Duffy who has only just got the job (I’m not saying Duffy is the right man but at the moment he is the man).

We were the same just a few weeks ago, me included. After losing to Raith I was basically thinking that if TW lost the derby then he would be under pressure which was madness on reflection as that defeat was the only 1 in 7 games leading up to the game at Somerset.

I’m not saying Ayr or anyone else should just accept shite with the hope that something works long term but being a board/chairman/manager of a football club must be absolutely torture as we are all just looking for instant results and if it’s not good enough we want the next guy in.

[Roxanne's man]

2 hours ago, Sortmeout said:

I’m not saying Ayr or anyone else should just accept shite with the hope that something works long term but being a board/chairman/manager of a football club must be absolutely torture as we are all just looking for instant results and if it’s not good enough we want the next guy in.

You are right, every team looks for a manager who can get results. Ayr had a good spell under Dalziel and were dire under Money, Watt and the likes....Picked themselves up  with Reid and McCall and went downhill slightly with Kerr and more so with Hopkin. Duffy for me, seems like he was in the correct situation for the Job. Knew the chairman, was already a coach, knew the squad.....can see why the chairman would give him a chance.

Managers come and go and often their success comes in a zig-zag of good and bad. As you know, for every Steve Clarke, there's a Gary Locke, Lee Clark, Lee McCulloch....

 

[diegomarahenry]

3 hours ago, ayrunitedfw said:

I must admit I’m pretty concerned about the managerial situation at the moment. It’s quite clear that Jim Duffy is not the long term answer. It’s quite clear he got the job as he stabilised us ( 7 points out of 9 in his 1st 3 games) when he came in and the board didn’t think there was anyone better out there however how can the board be sure that there is going to be a better option avaliable in the summer? 

Reading between the lines, we have someone in mind that won't be available until the summer. Duffy was willing and able to take charge until the end of the season. I am guessing that it would be someone currently in a job.

There are a few managers available just now Like Hughes, Robertson and Levein that could come in and take us forward, but are any of them interested or likely to be long term? Smiths strategy seems to be a long term appointment that will have a plan to have us competing at least for promotion. That wouldn't include Duffy as he's getting on and has said he'd prefer to concentrate on coaching. 

I think that someone like Peter Murphy would be a good fit. Has been established at Annan for a few years and I'm sure would work with Duffy. 

Whoever it is, I'd hope they are already picking players for us next season or even in January because we don't have 5 players let alone 11 currently capable of a top half finish. 

 

[rgreig]

39 minutes ago, Roxanne's man said:

You are right, every team looks for a manager who can get results. Ayr had a good spell under Dalziel and were dire under Money, Watt and the likes....Picked themselves up  with Reid and McCall and went downhill slightly with Kerr and more so with Hopkin. Duffy for me, seems like he was in the correct situation for the Job. Knew the chairman, was already a coach, knew the squad.....can see why the chairman would give him a chance.

Managers come and go and often their success comes in a zig-zag of good and bad. As you know, for every Steve Clarke, there's a Gary Locke, Lee Clark, Lee McCulloch....

 

It's an interesting phenomenon that seems to afflict football more than anything else, irrespective of how much money you are able to throw at it. Just look at the English premiership and Spurs. If someone became the CEO of (for example) Morrison's the supermarket, they wouldn't be expecting to get fired if they hadn't made it the UK's #1 supermarket within 6 months.

I think Smith is absolutely right to want to create a sustainable income stream for the club and address the infrastructure issues. The fact that we can see that he is doing this is good, even if we don't have a clear view of his future plans. The example you picked of Dalziel is quite apposite - in some ways the worst manager in my lifetime when you look at the resources made available to him and the complete absence of any legacy beyond some memories of derby victories. If Dalziel by some fluke had managed to get us promoted we would absolutely have been relegated straight away.

I think Kilmarnock are in a very different position though from Ayr - from what I can see their infrastructure is good and their focus has to be on getting back up at the first attempt to avoid having to slash their playing budget. From that perspective, Wright must be under a lot of pressure from the board.

[BukyOHare]

29 minutes ago, rgreig said:

From that perspective, Wright must be under a lot of pressure from the board.

It's pressure but it also helps at Championship level when your starting eleven contains Chris Burke, Oli Shaw and Callum Hendry. Your wage budget all things being equal should dictate your finishing position in the league come the end of the season.

It's of more relevance than the amount spent on transfer fees (not at our level granted).

[edinburghhonestman]

It's pressure but it also helps at Championship level when your starting eleven contains Chris Burke, Oli Shaw and Callum Hendry. Your wage budget all things being equal should dictate your finishing position in the league come the end of the season.
It's of more relevance than the amount spent on transfer fees (not at our level granted).

Agree to an extent. The Championship has invariably been decided by who has the biggest budget. There are sometimes exceptions when a manager is a clown (Grant at the Pars) or gets significantly more out of his squad (Campbell at Arbroath). Otherwise the higher spending teams tend to be at the top and the lower spending ones at the bottom.

The challenge is to generate more income so you can increase your expenditure without going bust. I'm hopeful that's the path Ayr are on. It's just frustrating when the product on the pitch is lagging what's going on off it

[Guest]

The playing budget for next season will obviously dictate a large way towards our expectations, irrespective of who the Manager is (assuming we're still in the Championship of course).

Obviously it's difficult to know how much Hopkin paid on wages for all the ex Morton guys and late additions, but it seems doubtful that we're paying more for Adeloye, O'Connor, Salkeld, Fjortoft and McGinty than we were for Cammy Smith, Zanatta, McCowan, Andre Wright and Bruce Anderson, but who knows ??

That's the big thing for me, pre-season 2 seasons back most of us were getting very excited and looking at play offs as a given when we saw our squad being put together, however this pre-season it was more a worry about avoiding relegation with little to nothing to build confidence.

Still, let's just hope both Bradley and O'Connor are back fully fit and firing soon, as I honestly believe they'll make the difference for us in sneaking away from the drop zone.....

[rb123!]

Going back to what was said on the match thread about lack of communication from regarding likes of Hewitt surgery.

Our social media content is a fucking heap of embarrassing shite

It's honestly league 1/2 level and that's not exaggeration

[GaryMc93]

1 hour ago, diegomarahenry said:

Reading between the lines, we have someone in mind that won't be available until the summer. Duffy was willing and able to take charge until the end of the season. I am guessing that it would be someone currently in a job.

There are a few managers available just now Like Hughes, Robertson and Levein that could come in and take us forward, but are any of them interested or likely to be long term? Smiths strategy seems to be a long term appointment that will have a plan to have us competing at least for promotion. That wouldn't include Duffy as he's getting on and has said he'd prefer to concentrate on coaching. 

I think that someone like Peter Murphy would be a good fit. Has been established at Annan for a few years and I'm sure would work with Duffy. 

Whoever it is, I'd hope they are already picking players for us next season or even in January because we don't have 5 players let alone 11 currently capable of a top half finish. 

 

I think people are clinging on to this idea without any prove that's it true simply because otherwise the truth would be that Smith was won over by Duffy's temporary spell and had no realistic alternative and so actually has no idea who will be the manager beyond the summer.

As for Peter Murphy he's under contract at Annan until the summer of 2023 so it's not as if that by waiting until the summer we'd get him for free if he was the man Smith wanted. Also I'm not sure what the evidence is that Murphy would work with Duffy. It's not as if he's a former player of his and Duffy lingering in the background having spent almost an entire season as manager would risk undermining whoever the next manger is.

[rgreig]

48 minutes ago, edinburghhonestman said:

Agree to an extent. The Championship has invariably been decided by who has the biggest budget. There are sometimes exceptions when a manager is a clown (Grant at the Pars) or gets significantly more out of his squad (Campbell at Arbroath). Otherwise the higher spending teams tend to be at the top and the lower spending ones at the bottom.

The challenge is to generate more income so you can increase your expenditure without going bust. I'm hopeful that's the path Ayr are on. It's just frustrating when the product on the pitch is lagging what's going on off it

Yes, and that is why the parachute payment was so significant. Looking at the figures I could find, Kilmarnock would have received over 1.1m for finishing 12th which is about 900k more than Ayr or mid-table championship clubs. Missing out on that next season if they remain in the championship will mean a big change to their squad I assume.

[UpInTheAyr]

Think the Chairman is praying that Duffy's spell in charge is acceptable and nothing more so that he can just hand him the job and not go through the rigmarole of another application process after getting his fingers burned with Hopkin. There def seems to be less focus on the comms side of things as I assume he is putting all his focus on the hub where he is in his element.

At the Killie game I had someone offer to stand at the door when I went for a slash because the doors don't lock properly on the new toilets on the NT. I mean, how hard can it be to solve that particular problem. Everyone knows about it.

[flood]

1 hour ago, edinburghhonestman said:

Agree to an extent. The Championship has invariably been decided by who has the biggest budget. 
 

This is probably linked to squad size.  Bigger budget means more players of a good standard for the championship.Apparently we have squad with two players for each position. As season runs and games come quick and fast, players get injured/suspended/ out of form, bigger squads have more option to change things, 

Killie have larger gates, more sponsors and people used to paying more at games…. As an example, we pay £5 for a pie and bovril at RP. Think it was £3 odds at Somerset last week. Multiply that by few thousand supporters and it adds up. I have business in Ayrshire and advertising for boards at ground is 3-4 times more at Rugby Park than Somerset. Sponsors are used to paying higher premier league prices even in championship. Challenge for us is to get up and justify higher costs, while Ayr have to raise level of income to our level and fund the push to get up

[edinburghhonestman]

This is probably linked to squad size.  Bigger budget means more players of a good standard for the championship.Apparently we have squad with two players for each position. As season runs and games come quick and fast, players get injured/suspended/ out of form, bigger squads have more option to change things, 
Killie have larger gates, more sponsors and people used to paying more at games…. As an example, we pay £5 for a pie and bovril at RP. Think it was £3 odds at Somerset last week. Multiply that by few thousand supporters and it adds up. I have business in Ayrshire and advertising for boards at ground is 3-4 times more at Rugby Park than Somerset. Sponsors are used to paying higher premier league prices even in championship. Challenge for us is to get up and justify higher costs, while Ayr have to raise level of income to our level and fund the push to get up

Tend to agree. We are really missing Bradley and O'Connor who are both good going forward and we don't have cover. I suspect most sides have sparse cover for most roles.

I think the other key point in your post is that it takes time to build up to £5 for a pie and Bovril and that is only sustainable with a degree of on field success. Both on and off the park need to be in sync to really build something.

[Sortmeout]

38 minutes ago, edinburghhonestman said:

Tend to agree. We are really missing Bradley and O'Connor who are both good going forward and we don't have cover. I suspect most sides have sparse cover for most roles.

I think the other key point in your post is that it takes time to build up to £5 for a pie and Bovril and that is only sustainable with a degree of on field success. Both on and off the park need to be in sync to really build something.

In my opinion it’s only really the on field that matters. If you’re winning the majority of games and matching/exceeding your fan’s expectations then generally speaking your fans will give you an easy ride with anything off the field that they don’t agree with - and the opposite is true if you aren’t doing well.

[ComradeDiego]

1 hour ago, rb123! said:

Going back to what was said on the match thread about lack of communication from regarding likes of Hewitt surgery.

Our social media content is a fucking heap of embarrassing shite

It's honestly league 1/2 level and that's not exaggeration

It’s been disgraceful for years. Desperately need a social media team.

[ayrunitedfw]

49 minutes ago, Sortmeout said:

In my opinion it’s only really the on field that matters. If you’re winning the majority of games and matching/exceeding your fan’s expectations then generally speaking your fans will give you an easy ride with anything off the field that they don’t agree with - and the opposite is true if you aren’t doing well.

I’d tend to agree with this. From a fans point of view the on field stuff is the most important thing. If the team are doing well you won’t hear anything negative about off field matters however if the team is performing badly which we are just now their will be negativity will all aspects of the club. 

[BukyOHare]

3 hours ago, edinburghhonestman said:

The vast majority of leagues invariably are decided by who has the biggest wage budget.

FTFY.

[Roxanne's man]

4 hours ago, rgreig said:

The example you picked of Dalziel is quite apposite - in some ways the worst manager in my lifetime when you look at the resources made available to him and the complete absence of any legacy beyond some memories of derby victories.

I agree. Spent a sh*tload and couldn't win the league. Success does cost money unfortunately, though to piss it up a rope like Dalziel? 

Dick Campbell is proof that you don't have to throw masses of money at a team for them to be challenging. Arbroath are exceeding expectations definitely. Credit to him, he's worked wonders with the squad he has. I will admit I used to laugh at Arbroath coming to Somerset, viewed it as an easy game. Times certainly do change.

The sad thing is, some managers only take over a team for a paycheck and have absolutely no passion about the results or the squad or more importantly the fans Best example I could think of is Berti Vogts.

There aren't many managers that you could say would definitely improve the success of a club without a cash injection.

McCall had a good relationship with the then chairman and invested the money in young players that, without a doubt, made a difference going upwards, long term. How much? I don't know. Though I'm 100% certain it pales in comparison to Dalziel's 'loadzamoney!' Cash throwing antics.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Roxanne's man
Thought Neil Watt was worse tbh.

[No_Problemo]

8 hours ago, ComradeDiego said:

It’s been disgraceful for years. Desperately need a social media team.

It does appear to have gotten dramatically worse though...