The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[diegomarahenry]

The hoofball or Hoppyball or whatever your preferred term for it is, isn't a case of shelling long balls Wimbledon style to a big lump and hoping for knockdowns, This style is playing quick balls from the back to the 5 forwards we have on the park, plus two wing backs who should be running and finding space. It is quick counter attacking rather than a traditional long ball game. 

Clyde played deep and packed the centre of defence. This is the way to stop the style of play we have adopted. Clyde's game plan was very much, sit in and try to sneak a goal. The last thing you want to do is go a goal down against a team doing that. We lost one inside 5 minutes. 

What troubles me isn't the "Hoppyball" with Hopkin, it is the fact we didn't change it. Clyde weren't allowing us to stretch them at the back, they were allowing us to put crosses in knowing we had nothing in the middle.  Playing out from the back, patient build-up, trying to draw them out would have been far more effective. The game essentially became a quick ball to Moffat, he is crowded out, loses possession. The ball is lumped forward to Baird or Muirhead, who passed it out wide. Reading or Walsh put a cross in, cleared to Baird or Muirhead.....and repeat for 90 minutes. Quick counter attacks only work if the team you are playing are set up to attack and you can find spaces behind them. There doesn't appear to be a plan B. 

The players that have came in have almost all been poor, labelled as having attitude problems etc, Wright, Barjonas and McGavin have been let downs/failures. Todd didn't make much of a difference yesterday when he came on. There is no fight or urgency in the team. We deserve to go down on the fact that the majority of the team look like they don't care. 

Out of the current squad, I would keep - 

Houston - Still young, showed promise before

Reading - Improved once he was made a regular

Muirhead - Potential to be a Jamie Adams type leader on the park

Roscoe - Flawed but still young, may be a good partner for an Ndaba type

Murdoch - Based on past form, deserves another year

Chalmers - Still like to see him in Kerrs "quarterback" position, between the centre halfs and dictating the game. He doesn't have the energy to be a wide or attacking player.

McCowan - Best player we have by some distance

Moffat - deserves another year

McKenzie - Still developing

Moore - If the player he was before his injuries returns, I'd rather he was at Ayr. 

Out of that 10, I'd expect maybe 6 to be regulars next season. Offering Ndaba something may be an outside chance but would love to see him here next season.

[D'Jaffo]

Kerr bought the chess pieces but it's now up to Hopkin as to how he moves them. That's what's concerning me.
I've got nothing personal against Hopkin, it's all about results first and then about performances second. Both are making me feel very uneasy.
We've got fewer league games left than games Hopkin has had in his time in charge. People are entitled to be concerned at our overall profile surely?

That’s all well and good but there needs to be some acknowledgment that the players themselves aren’t actually good enough and don’t look interested enough to get us out of this.

[BukyOHare]

24 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I'm not sure I like this analogy. 

Like it or not, it doesn't really matter.

What cannot be denied is that it's upto Hopkin to keep us up with the players he's inherited plus Barjonas. We don't have a divine right to Championship football but I'm sure it sets us back massively if we go down. 

Hopkin knew the challenge he faced and he knew the squad he was inheriting. He's clearly impressed the chairman enough to get a 2 year contract. The gloves now have to be off with 5 games left. 

Its literally all or nothing. 

 

[D'Jaffo]

The hoofball or Hoppyball or whatever your preferred term for it is, isn't a case of shelling long balls Wimbledon style to a big lump and hoping for knockdowns, This style is playing quick balls from the back to the 5 forwards we have on the park, plus two wing backs who should be running and finding space. It is quick counter attacking rather than a traditional long ball game. 
Clyde played deep and packed the centre of defence. This is the way to stop the style of play we have adopted. Clyde's game plan was very much, sit in and try to sneak a goal. The last thing you want to do is go a goal down against a team doing that. We lost one inside 5 minutes. 
What troubles me isn't the "Hoppyball" with Hopkin, it is the fact we didn't change it. Clyde weren't allowing us to stretch them at the back, they were allowing us to put crosses in knowing we had nothing in the middle.  Playing out from the back, patient build-up, trying to draw them out would have been far more effective. The game essentially became a quick ball to Moffat, he is crowded out, loses possession. The ball is lumped forward to Baird or Muirhead, who passed it out wide. Reading or Walsh put a cross in, cleared to Baird or Muirhead.....and repeat for 90 minutes. Quick counter attacks only work if the team you are playing are set up to attack and you can find spaces behind them. There doesn't appear to be a plan B. 
The players that have came in have almost all been poor, labelled as having attitude problems etc, Wright, Barjonas and McGavin have been let downs/failures. Todd didn't make much of a difference yesterday when he came on. There is no fight or urgency in the team. We deserve to go down on the fact that the majority of the team look like they don't care. 
Out of the current squad, I would keep - 
Houston - Still young, showed promise before
Reading - Improved once he was made a regular
Muirhead - Potential to be a Jamie Adams type leader on the park
Roscoe - Flawed but still young, may be a good partner for an Ndaba type
Murdoch - Based on past form, deserves another year
Chalmers - Still like to see him in Kerrs "quarterback" position, between the centre halfs and dictating the game. He doesn't have the energy to be a wide or attacking player.
McCowan - Best player we have by some distance
Moffat - deserves another year
McKenzie - Still developing
Moore - If the player he was before his injuries returns, I'd rather he was at Ayr. 
Out of that 10, I'd expect maybe 6 to be regulars next season. Offering Ndaba something may be an outside chance but would love to see him here next season.

I think you’re being very kind there. Of that list alone I’d be offloading Chalmers, Moore and Roscoe. Moore is a sad one because he’s been loyal to us and vice versa but his injuries mean he’s a passenger for us.

Chalmers may do well in a sitting role with runner around him but going by what Livi fans say he wants a fair bit of running from everyone and for that reason I don’t see Chalmers being a player Hopkin will have any use for.

[BukyOHare]

1 minute ago, D'Jaffo said:

That’s all well and good but there needs to be some acknowledgment that the players themselves aren’t actually good enough and don’t look interested enough to get us out of this.

They seemed good enough at Dens and in the first half against Elgin. 

If the players aren't interested then it's on the manager to weed them out and find a solution. That's part of his job. We can't have any passengers between now and the end of the season. 

[D'Jaffo]

They seemed good enough at Dens and in the first half against Elgin. 
If the players aren't interested then it's on the manager to weed them out and find a solution. That's part of his job. We can't have any passengers between now and the end of the season. 

Half of them don’t look interested. We can’t just dump half our squad and start each game with 8 men.

As for previous performances Dundee have shown themselves susceptible to the way Hopkin wants us to play and we did do very well up there. You can’t use the Elgin game as any type of indicator as to how good we are. Elgin were awful and it was like a training match at times.

[Trogdor]

2 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

Like it or not, it doesn't really matter.

What cannot be denied is that it's upto Hopkin to keep us up with the players he's inherited plus Barjonas. We don't have a divine right to Championship football but I'm sure it sets us back massively if we go down. 

Hopkin knew the challenge he faced and he knew the squad he was inheriting. He's clearly impressed the chairman enough to get a 2 year contract. The gloves now have to be off with 5 games left. 

Its literally all or nothing. 

I don't disagree with you here. It is Hopkin's responsibility to keep us up. He knew what he was facing and if we keep performing as we have under him (ie. scraping points in the league) then we'll be fine. It'll be squeaky and there's gonna be some squealing but I think we'll make it. 

However, even in the event we go down. The players and the prior management team will be more responsible for it than Hopkin. 

[BukyOHare]

1 minute ago, D'Jaffo said:

Half of them don’t look interested. We can’t just dump half our squad and start each game with 8 men.

As for previous performances Dundee have shown themselves susceptible to the way Hopkin wants us to play and we did do very well up there. You can’t use the Elgin game as any type of indicator as to how good we are. Elgin were awful and it was like a training match at times.

Are there that many not interested? I doubt it. Convenient that we played to Dundee and Elgins' weaknesses but couldn't do the same in the games we haven't won, very convenient.

Its on the manager to get the results, bad attitude or not from the players. Man management is a massive part of the success in this game, perhaps the players aren't buying into the direct play either.

This should be a full time squad good enough on paper to stay up with 2 part time teams in the same league. 

That is in no way meant to patronise Alloa or Arbroath. 

Its the facts. I'll go back and say again that Hopkin will have had 9 games with which to save our status. It should be enough games, just. Then we get to see him build his own squad.

If it isn't enough time and we go down, which is a distinct possibility, then Smith (for not making the change sooner) Hopkin and Kerr all take their share of the blame. 

 

[THEHonestman1910]

Clyde got St Johnstone away. Not too bothered that we didn't progress as we probably would've been well beaten. 

 

[ayrunitedfw]

2 minutes ago, THEHonestman1910 said:

Clyde got St Johnstone away. Not too bothered that we didn't progress as we probably would've been well beaten. 

 

We wouldn’t of got St Johnstone though? 
 

ETA: We’d of got Rangers/Cove Rangers away 

Edited April 4, 2021 by ayrunitedfw

[D'Jaffo]

Are there that many not interested? I doubt it. Convenient that we played to Dundee and Elgins' weaknesses but couldn't do the same in the games we haven't won, very convenient.
Its on the manager to get the results, bad attitude or not from the players. Man management is a massive part of the success in this game, perhaps the players aren't buying into the direct play either.
This should be a full time squad good enough on paper to stay up with 2 part time teams in the same league. 
That is in no way meant to patronise Alloa or Arbroath. 
Its the facts. I'll go back and say again that Hopkin will have had 9 games with which to save our status. It should be enough games, just. Then we get to see him build his own squad.
If it isn't enough time and we go down, which is a distinct possibility, then Smith (for not making the change sooner) Hopkin and Kerr all take their share of the blame. 
 

Yes. They’re either disinterested, unfit or just shitebags. Either way it’s all on them.

It’s not convenient at all, it just doesn’t fit your narrative. Dundee tried to dominate us and left space in behind them. It played right into our hands. We didn’t particularly expose Elgin’s weaknesses. We simply turned up for the game with our boost on the correct feet and won easily.

You can go through each individual player and for the vast majority go “aye they’ve all done reasonably well in this league” but football isn’t as easy as that. I said it when Kerr was manager that he’s brought it some good individual players but as a team they don’t play well. It is not a team that is good enough together to stay up comfortably as is being shown.

[Trogdor]

12 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

If it isn't enough time and we go down, which is a distinct possibility, then Smith (for not making the change sooner) Hopkin and Kerr all take their share of the blame. 

No blame for the players? 

[THEHonestman1910]

9 minutes ago, ayrunitedfw said:

We wouldn’t of got St Johnstone though? 
 

ETA: We’d of got Rangers/Cove Rangers away 

Ahh okay, fair enough

[Trogdor]

14 minutes ago, ayrunitedfw said:

We wouldn’t of got St Johnstone though? 
 

ETA: We’d of got Rangers/Cove Rangers away 

I didn't fancy us taking a trip up to Aberdeen tbf. Better to focus on the league.

[No_Problemo]

Smith wasn’t even chairman for most of the season. The blame would primarily lie at the feet of Cameron and Kerr, with a mention for Hopkin and a very slight one for Smith. 

[ecocme]

Smith appointed Hopkin after gushing about the quality of applicant, he also said I’m sure in one of his first interviews that he wanted Ayr to be a premier league team in about 5 years (I think). So he will take a portion of the blame if we get relegated and it’ll be interesting to see what his plan is to how we attain that vision. 

[BukyOHare]

8 hours ago, D'Jaffo said:

Yes. They’re either disinterested, unfit or just shitebags. Either way it’s all on them.

It’s not convenient at all, it just doesn’t fit your narrative. Dundee tried to dominate us and left space in behind them. It played right into our hands. We didn’t particularly expose Elgin’s weaknesses. We simply turned up for the game with our boost on the correct feet and won easily.

You can go through each individual player and for the vast majority go “aye they’ve all done reasonably well in this league” but football isn’t as easy as that. I said it when Kerr was manager that he’s brought it some good individual players but as a team they don’t play well. It is not a team that is good enough together to stay up comfortably as is being shown.

The Dundee and Elgin games don't fit your narrative, that's why I said its convenient.

I don't remember Dundee ever dominating us or even trying to in that game. Our success in that game was down to moving up and down the pitch as a team, playing the correct pass at the right time, having a good tempo to our play and counter attacking well because of it.

Paddy Reading's tenacity and skill on the touchline leading upto Smith's finish and McKenzie's fine strike from outside the box were all when Dundee had bodies back. That wasnt down do there being acres of space behind them. Even our first was due to good pressing when we didnt have the ball and again breaking with pace.

After the Dundee game I really thought there was an edge to our play, an organisation and a purpose. Nobody can say its been anywhere near matching the levels of performance since. That's down to playing the direct pass too often and relying on percentage football to get territory. You're almost hoping for something to happen rather than making something happen.

Players become isolated and gaps appear between the defence and midfield, and the midfield and the strikers. 

I wouldn't disagree with your description of individuals but its now up to the current manager to get every last ounce of effort and output from each of them. I agreed with the sentiment of letting Cammy Smith go, I just hope his departure isn't the difference between us staying up or not.

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by BukyOHare

[North British]

4 hours ago, diegomarahenry said:

Out of the current squad, I would keep - 

Houston - Still young, showed promise before

Reading - Improved once he was made a regular

Muirhead - Potential to be a Jamie Adams type leader on the park

Roscoe - Flawed but still young, may be a good partner for an Ndaba type

Murdoch - Based on past form, deserves another year

Chalmers - Still like to see him in Kerrs "quarterback" position, between the centre halfs and dictating the game. He doesn't have the energy to be a wide or attacking player.

McCowan - Best player we have by some distance

Moffat - deserves another year

McKenzie - Still developing

Moore - If the player he was before his injuries returns, I'd rather he was at Ayr. 

Houston ,Reading , Muihead , Chalmers and Murdoch are all under contract for next season . What imput they will have remains to be seen .

Moffat , Done .

Roscoe , Dud .

McCowan, Off to Dundee United .

Moore , Would love him to get one last chance , but we need four live bodies in our pool of strikers . McKenzie will occupy one of those slots .

 

 

[ecocme]

3 minutes ago, North British said:

Houston ,Reading , Muihead , Chalmers and Murdoch are all under contract for next season . What imput they will have remains to be seen .

Moffat , Done .

Roscoe , Dud .

McCowan, Off to Dundee United .

Moore , Would love him to get one last chance , but we need four live bodies in our pool of strikers . McKenzie will occupy one of those slots .

 

 

McCowan to Dundee United? Is that the rumour? Hadn’t heard that but couldn’t grudge the boy that move. Disappointing to lose another academy graduate for nothing (if true)! 

Edited April 4, 2021 by ecocme

[No_Problemo]

17 minutes ago, North British said:

Houston ,Reading , Muihead , Chalmers and Murdoch are all under contract for next season . What imput they will have remains to be seen .

Moffat , Done .

Roscoe , Dud .

McCowan, Off to Dundee United .

Moore , Would love him to get one last chance , but we need four live bodies in our pool of strikers . McKenzie will occupy one of those slots .

 

 

I’m not sure Moffat is done tbh, the way we have set up all season has negated every single one of his attributes.