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The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread


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18 minutes ago, AYRSHIRE_ANGUS said:

I'm still mystified as to why we continue to play at 3pm in darkness over the Winter months. Thats an obvious cost saving surely if the kick-off is changed to midday or 1pm? Or is there a regulatory requirement to play at 3pm pandemic or no pandemic?-

Morton on 29th has been changed to 6pm Kick  Off I see today 

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19 minutes ago, AYRSHIRE_ANGUS said:

I'm still mystified as to why we continue to play at 3pm in darkness over the Winter months. Thats an obvious cost saving surely if the kick-off is changed to midday or 1pm? Or is there a regulatory requirement to play at 3pm pandemic or no pandemic?-

I guess that may come in time but it's a societal thing at the moment. The 3pm traditional time came from the fact that football used to be "the working man's game" and people regularly worked to lunch on Saturdays back in the day. Then they'd pop to the pub, which was open at lunchtime, go to the football and be back in the pub when it re-opened at teatime. Of course in the modern era none of that is terribly relevant but 3pm remains the default kick off time and the one window which is protected in terms of live broadcast of alternative games. There's a debate to be had about whether or not the savings from not turning on floodlights for 1 or 2 hours are more than the losses of playing when there's inevitably a live game or two on somewhere else. It's not something clubs can do unilaterally though either. You need your opponents to agree and, unless they plan on doing the same and want you to agree to the return fixture, then there's no real incentive for them to change the default time they've been planning round.

It's probably more relevant now with little or no attendances anyway of course and that's why you're seeing a lot of the scheduled midweek games in Xmas week changing to earlier kick off times at the moment (not to save floodlights but to get players and staff home earlier since fans aren't travelling to them anyway).

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41 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I guess that may come in time but it's a societal thing at the moment. The 3pm traditional time came from the fact that football used to be "the working man's game" and people regularly worked to lunch on Saturdays back in the day. Then they'd pop to the pub, which was open at lunchtime, go to the football and be back in the pub when it re-opened at teatime. Of course in the modern era none of that is terribly relevant but 3pm remains the default kick off time and the one window which is protected in terms of live broadcast of alternative games. There's a debate to be had about whether or not the savings from not turning on floodlights for 1 or 2 hours are more than the losses of playing when there's inevitably a live game or two on somewhere else. It's not something clubs can do unilaterally though either. You need your opponents to agree and, unless they plan on doing the same and want you to agree to the return fixture, then there's no real incentive for them to change the default time they've been planning round.

It's probably more relevant now with little or no attendances anyway of course and that's why you're seeing a lot of the scheduled midweek games in Xmas week changing to earlier kick off times at the moment (not to save floodlights but to get players and staff home earlier since fans aren't travelling to them anyway).

Are the costs of running floodlights significant for clubs at this level ?  

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17 hours ago, Iain said:

Reading this stuff about Championship clubs running out of money is pretty galling. The Record report specifically says that some clubs who have players on high wages are struggling. Maybe try signing cheaper players if you can't afford good ones? Or are the taxpayers supposed to underwrite whatever unrealistic ambitions clubs decide to adopt?

Clubs are ultimately businesses, ones that employ people and make a economic contribution to their communities.  Given the financial support provided to other businesses, why shouldn’t football clubs seek support too?  Morton seem to be the club in greatest distress, and I don’t see much evidence they’ve splashed the cash - on the contrary, they’re taking extraordinary cash cutting measures like operating without a manager.  

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2 hours ago, AYRSHIRE_ANGUS said:

I'm still mystified as to why we continue to play at 3pm in darkness over the Winter months. Thats an obvious cost saving surely if the kick-off is changed to midday or 1pm? Or is there a regulatory requirement to play at 3pm pandemic or no pandemic?-

I know a few shift workers who can just about make a 3pm kick off, but would struggle with an earlier kick off.  It’s not as obvious a cost saving as it appears.

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8 hours ago, GaryMc93 said:

Worth remembering that when he was on the half time show David Smith said the club had budgeted for fans being back in by now and that recently himself and Tracy had to redo the budget. 

You actually have to question what advice clubs received from the SPFL, SFA, Joint Response Group and the SFA’s Chief Medical Consultant and if it was suggested that fans would be back by now and if so why they thought that would the case.

Clubs won't be full of medical experts so if they've budgeted based on advice from the governing bodies then you can't exactly blame them. However if no guarantees were given and clubs have gambled on predicting when the pandemic would be over themselves then that's on them. 

In fairness I don't believe anyone could answer the "when will it be ok" question, it's an ever changing story, even now with a vaccine nobody can say that it will provide sufficient immunity to return to anything like normal and even if it does, there's many variables and timescales around a full vaccination programme.

Only today BA have cancelled many of their routes for the whole of 2021 and don't believe things will be back to anything like normal until at least 2023.

Look around Europe and things are even worse than here and going downhill rapidly in the likes of Germany & Italy, so realistically I don't believe there's anyone involved with Scottish Football who's qualified or able to give any sort of serious advice to anyone.

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4 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I guess that may come in time but it's a societal thing at the moment. The 3pm traditional time came from the fact that football used to be "the working man's game" and people regularly worked to lunch on Saturdays back in the day. Then they'd pop to the pub, which was open at lunchtime, go to the football and be back in the pub when it re-opened at teatime. Of course in the modern era none of that is terribly relevant but 3pm remains the default kick off time and the one window which is protected in terms of live broadcast of alternative games. There's a debate to be had about whether or not the savings from not turning on floodlights for 1 or 2 hours are more than the losses of playing when there's inevitably a live game or two on somewhere else. It's not something clubs can do unilaterally though either. You need your opponents to agree and, unless they plan on doing the same and want you to agree to the return fixture, then there's no real incentive for them to change the default time they've been planning round.

It's probably more relevant now with little or no attendances anyway of course and that's why you're seeing a lot of the scheduled midweek games in Xmas week changing to earlier kick off times at the moment (not to save floodlights but to get players and staff home earlier since fans aren't travelling to them anyway).

Work, Pub, going to Football, oh, you're getting all nostalgic now..........

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17 hours ago, rb123! said:

I'm not doubting there's issues, however this is a typical poorly written political piece from the Record which can be taken with a pinch of salt.

Unnamed sources, "have learned", "led to believe", "have it on good authority" etc, etc.

#Armageddon

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7 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Why? We might be struggling at present but are expecting our insurance payment next month. We're also owned by one of the richest people involved in Scottish football - That doesn't mean we're not struggling financially, but other than reasoning of, 'Because it's Dundee' everything suggests we're in one of the safer financial positions in the Championship right now. (Although definitely not secure)

I think you are arguing a point I haven't made, or at least haven't meant and even went on to explain. 

The question was about what Championship clubs were hours away from death. I was looking at the possible runners and riders and discounting them. I said I didn't see Dundee going bust along with Inverness or Morton. 

Without any knowledge I would say that Adams and McGowan are probably in the top 5 wage earners in the Championship. That has to put a strain on the club with no crowds, poor performances will effect people purchasing match streams etc. But as I said in my original post, Dundee have a decent enough size fan base to see them ok regardless of investment, which both clubs know, can disappear very quickly. 

18 hours ago, itzdrk said:

The fans Inverness have are season ticket holders so they've paid already.  That's a cost rather than income.  

Morton are definitely at the edge, David Hopkin was paying (some) players wages and meals, he's gone.  

The Inverness Chairman said that there has been a slow uptake of people wanting to go back. The point was more around the fact the Chairman wasn't sounding the panic alarm on Saturday live on the radio so I doubt he would do in anonymously to a Daily Record journalist a few days later. 

Morton, judging by their thread is more political than financial. A lot of managers pay wages or bonuses out of their own pocket at lower level if they are trying to make a name for themselves and have had a decent playing career.  Neil Watt did it at Ayr so it isn't always the sign of a club struggling financially. If the current owners are playing silly buggers, The PFA and SPFL can intervene if players aren't getting paid and that hasn't been mentioned if it has happened.  

It may take Morton to do what we did post-Barr era to resolve the matter but I don't think Morton will go near liquidation never mind go bust. 

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If the vaccine program goes to plan, those of a high risk of dying will be vaccinated by the end of March. That means that restrictions can be eased as the pressure on the NHS will be less, I would think that most of the country would be on level two type restrictions after that. Then we will be in to the summer where the virus is less likely to spread and the vaccine will be continued to those under 50.

Internally I would expect that next season will be almost back to normal. The problem externally is that everyone in the whole world has to get a vaccine so the UK having 60%-80% of the adult population vaccinated doesn't mean much globally if only a 5th of Americans have had it. So global travel will be impacted for years rather than months. 

The whole thing is buggered if there is several mutations that the vaccine wont immunize against though. 

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I think it’s scandalous if clubs go to wall over this. I had to go to Glasgow the other day for work. Passed Primark and it was heaving, same with Silverburn. Can’t understand why hundreds are allowed inside shops/shopping centres, yet we can’t have 500 folk socially distanced and wearing face coverings OUTSIDE where covid isn’t as prevalent.

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Really is a difficult situation we all, at every club in the lower leagues, find ourselves in. Beginning to look now as if best idea would have been to wait until now to see if we could run a half season from January onwards.

Does anybody think that with the way things are going there may be a possibility the season will have to be ditched to save clubs? Problem is though you can't just shove players out the door and say bye bye to their monthly earnings.

With what's going on at Morton I do really think something radical is going to need to be proposed for how this league functions between now and the end of the season. It's apparent that trundling along to end of the season with 0 fans who just pay for shitty streams isn't going to work.

If you cast back to July/August everyone was really saying that this method of no fans and streams would only work for half a season before money problems would arise and its proven.

Someone, somewhere in Scottish football is going to have questions to answer with why it was agreed to playing 3/4 a season with no guarantee of having fans in at any point. I mean for ourselves in Ayrshire, being so close to central belt and having people who commute to Glasgow area for work, until this is over we're unfortunately going to always be in the higher Covid brackets, so for us it looks impossible to imagine us being in level 1 before May.

This means there will be 0 supporters at any games for a whole season possibly which for a football system which relies on fans being at every game every week is potentially catestrophic.

I know it's a bit of a rant but generally just saying it's become apparent that for all clubs to survive this, could be our own club included, we can't keep carrying on like this until May IMO.

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13 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

I think it’s scandalous if clubs go to wall over this. I had to go to Glasgow the other day for work. Passed Primark and it was heaving, same with Silverburn. Can’t understand why hundreds are allowed inside shops/shopping centres, yet we can’t have 500 folk socially distanced and wearing face coverings OUTSIDE where covid isn’t as prevalent.

Having 500 people in Somerset would be completely pointless as we have more season ticket holders than that so no money to be gained and would end up costing the club money for stewards etc. 

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10 minutes ago, ayrunitedfw said:

Having 500 people in Somerset would be completely pointless as we have more season ticket holders than that so no money to be gained and would end up costing the club money for stewards etc. 

It would cost most clubs. I’m sure the Government could help out with the extra costs though like they’re doing with so many other businesses 🙄. I’m also sure you’d be able to get 20 or so stewards who are fans of the club to do it for free until all this shit comes to an end.  

Also I think if the social distancing was cut to 1metre like it is on the Subway, we’d be able to get 1000 fans in 

Edited by Thereisalight..
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4 hours ago, diegomarahenry said:

I think you are arguing a point I haven't made, or at least haven't meant and even went on to explain. 

The question was about what Championship clubs were hours away from death. I was looking at the possible runners and riders and discounting them. I said I didn't see Dundee going bust along with Inverness or Morton. 

Without any knowledge I would say that Adams and McGowan are probably in the top 5 wage earners in the Championship. That has to put a strain on the club with no crowds, poor performances will effect people purchasing match streams etc. But as I said in my original post, Dundee have a decent enough size fan base to see them ok regardless of investment, which both clubs know, can disappear very quickly. 

The Inverness Chairman said that there has been a slow uptake of people wanting to go back. The point was more around the fact the Chairman wasn't sounding the panic alarm on Saturday live on the radio so I doubt he would do in anonymously to a Daily Record journalist a few days later. 

Morton, judging by their thread is more political than financial. A lot of managers pay wages or bonuses out of their own pocket at lower level if they are trying to make a name for themselves and have had a decent playing career.  Neil Watt did it at Ayr so it isn't always the sign of a club struggling financially. If the current owners are playing silly buggers, The PFA and SPFL can intervene if players aren't getting paid and that hasn't been mentioned if it has happened.  

It may take Morton to do what we did post-Barr era to resolve the matter but I don't think Morton will go near liquidation never mind go bust. 

Point of order re: Charlie Adam

Wanted back up the road for family reasons, Dundee wanted him for obvious reasons - despite being older should still have the legs to stroll around in the Championship and he's 'one of oor own'. Despite the wealth of Dundee's owners they were determined to not break the wage structure for anyone so a it took about a 6 weeks to work out a deal where 3 sponsors are paying most of his wages which in and of itself is a sliver of his last salary.

Now we can debate whether or not that should have been something we should have bothered with when you consider his desire to get home to Dundee, pull on the Dark Blue sweater, and the man's career earnings, but that is a separate discussion. Bottom line is that although he is undoubtedly a high wage earner in the Championship he is not being paid by the club anything out of line or scandalous. As long as Hearts are in this league with the 4th highest budget in Scotland whilst being in the 2nd tier I would doubt Adam is a top 5 earner.

 

Edited by CanadianDee
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37 minutes ago, rb123! said:

Really is a difficult situation we all, at every club in the lower leagues, find ourselves in. Beginning to look now as if best idea would have been to wait until now to see if we could run a half season from January onwards.

Does anybody think that with the way things are going there may be a possibility the season will have to be ditched to save clubs? Problem is though you can't just shove players out the door and say bye bye to their monthly earnings.

With what's going on at Morton I do really think something radical is going to need to be proposed for how this league functions between now and the end of the season. It's apparent that trundling along to end of the season with 0 fans who just pay for shitty streams isn't going to work.

If you cast back to July/August everyone was really saying that this method of no fans and streams would only work for half a season before money problems would arise and its proven.

Someone, somewhere in Scottish football is going to have questions to answer with why it was agreed to playing 3/4 a season with no guarantee of having fans in at any point. I mean for ourselves in Ayrshire, being so close to central belt and having people who commute to Glasgow area for work, until this is over we're unfortunately going to always be in the higher Covid brackets, so for us it looks impossible to imagine us being in level 1 before May.

This means there will be 0 supporters at any games for a whole season possibly which for a football system which relies on fans being at every game every week is potentially catestrophic.

I know it's a bit of a rant but generally just saying it's become apparent that for all clubs to survive this, could be our own club included, we can't keep carrying on like this until May IMO.

Someone made a point at the weekend that every industry is struggling and there is money in football, what are the governing bodies doing to help clubs, what money could UEFA or FIFA provide to clubs. They have cut smaller nations spots in the Champions League to generate billions so maybe it is time to start paying some of it back. 

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38 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

Someone made a point at the weekend that every industry is struggling and there is money in football, what are the governing bodies doing to help clubs, what money could UEFA or FIFA provide to clubs. They have cut smaller nations spots in the Champions League to generate billions so maybe it is time to start paying some of it back. 

Good point.

Yeah, UEFA had cash reserves of circa £0.5 billion. Dunno how much they have actually offered up due to covid-19.

I'm not too sure about FIFA - I think Seb Blatter took it all.  You'd imagine they would have considerably more than UEFA although it would have to stretch even further.

Edited by Trogdor
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7 hours ago, diegomarahenry said:

Someone made a point at the weekend that every industry is struggling and there is money in football, what are the governing bodies doing to help clubs, what money could UEFA or FIFA provide to clubs. They have cut smaller nations spots in the Champions League to generate billions so maybe it is time to start paying some of it back. 

Keep reading rumours that the Scottish govt is sitting on covid cash which hasn’t found a home yet. The relevant football minister is clinging onto his job after the drug death figures so not sure football is high up on his list of priorities . UEFA or fifa may well have cash but it would be a long queue and these sort of bodies seem to have favourites. Doncaster and co don’t strike me as the sort to be at the front. Think most help would need to come from within the game itself. If enough clubs were in trouble and it became a large enough story then the govt might then do something 

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