The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[bazka6]

Ross Cunningham? - just left Hamilton, joint top scorer (7 lol) last season.

[conley]

15 hours ago, THEHonestman1910 said:

Patrick Reading has played one whole senior game in his entire career and he seems to be the first choice LB, Ecrepont could've easily rotated with him.   

When Kelly, Doohan and Houston turned up on our doorstep, they had in total between them played 4league games(all  by Houston at loan to Airdrie.. rotation is normally employed by clubs who are likely to play 50/60 games a season and to give players a rest...we will play 27 league games...the boy Ecrepont is better off at Albion and I would be surprised if there is not a clause in the deal allowing Ayr to recall him if he is required.

[Finlay21]

3 hours ago, edwardo said:

Finn needs first team experience he’s only just finished school.It will benefit him and the club in the future with him getting game time . 

Exactly. The boy is a great prospect and with getting game experience weekly he will only get better , a season in the lower league with Albion will benefit him and Ayr United in the long run , good chance of pushing for a start next season 

[HMIP]

It’s odd how expectations of young players have changed over the years.  At 18, and at our level, I would absolutely expect Ecrepont to be involved with the first team if he is a genuine prospect.  This isn’t Serie A after all. But now 18 is still regarded as youth level.  
 

 There is definitely an issue with the so called elite academies signing up promising young players on multi year deals then leaving them to rot in their youth teams, so we are seeing players like Rose and Harvie developing late due to a lack of first team games, but this ought to be viewed as an (unhealthy) exception.  
 

Forrest and Crawford were well involved in the first team at 18, and a generation ago, I doubt anyone was arguing that Steve Nicol or Robert Connor needed a year at Albion Rovers to “bring them on”.  We do seem to be putting a lot of faith in Reading given his lack of first team experience - people seem to forget how raw Harvie and particularly Rose were when they first came to the club.  I presume if Reading does have a wobble, Houston would go to left back and Muirhead to right back, which doesn’t sound too great.

 

[Hawk89]

I'm not really getting the negativity around this move, I'm delighted for Finn that he's going to get a run out on a weekly basis. The fact he isn't just being lumped in at the deep end to me shows how far we've progressed as a club.

Funnily enough if we were back in the Brian Reid days I would fully have expected him to be starting / coming off the bench for 5 minutes with a few of the other youth prospects this season whilst surrounded by a mixture of jobbers and a couple of marquee players. Instead he's going to learn his trade at what is without a doubt a higher level than the reserves he's been playing in. Looking after Finn and bedding him into the first team is far better than just lumping him in and hoping for the best. Fingers crossed both Finn and Gabe have stellar seasons to show they are ready to start at our level. 

[Finlay21]

12 minutes ago, HMIP said:

It’s odd how expectations of young players have changed over the years.  At 18, and at our level, I would absolutely expect Ecrepont to be involved with the first team if he is a genuine prospect.  This isn’t Serie A after all. But now 18 is still regarded as youth level.  
 

 There is definitely an issue with the so called elite academies signing up promising young players on multi year deals then leaving them to rot in their youth teams, so we are seeing players like Rose and Harvie developing late due to a lack of first team games, but this ought to be viewed as an (unhealthy) exception.  
 

Forrest and Crawford were well involved in the first team at 18, and a generation ago, I doubt anyone was arguing that Steve Nicol or Robert Connor needed a year at Albion Rovers to “bring them on”.  We do seem to be putting a lot of faith in Reading given his lack of first team experience - people seem to forget how raw Harvie and particularly Rose were when they first came to the club.  I presume if Reading does have a wobble, Houston would go to left back and Muirhead to right back, which doesn’t sound too great.

 

One of the comments on this page is by someone who sees Finn on a daily basis and totally agrees the right move for him was to go and play regularly get the experience which is going to benefit him and the team going forward , Kerr must either have cover currently at club or someone coming in who is able to cover that position , He is not going to leave himself short , every player he has signed so far this season can play more than one position and he has stated that 

[diegomarahenry]

Mark Shankland was touted as a top player from 15, people at the academy were raving about him for 2-3 years before he made the first team squad. He made hid debut and it was obvious he was more than a yard to slow for senior football, plenty of ability but just to slow. 

Crawford was allowed to flourish because we had nothing else at the time, Forrest came through along side Moffat and Roberts.  

[HMIP]

11 minutes ago, Robbo63 said:

One of the comments on this page is by someone who sees Finn on a daily basis and totally agrees the right move for him was to go and play regularly get the experience which is going to benefit him and the team going forward , Kerr must either have cover currently at club or someone coming in who is able to cover that position , He is not going to leave himself short , every player he has signed so far this season can play more than one position and he has stated that 

That’s the point being made I think.  Given there were high hopes for the player, it’s disappointing that at 18, those who see him regularly don’t think he’s close to being involved with the first team.  Truthfully, if you’re not ready to be involved at Championship level by that age, you probably never will be.  McCowan might be viewed  as an exception, but I think that was more down to McCall taking so little interest in the youths that he was genuinely unaware that he had a real prospect kicking his heels.

[GaryMc93]

Not sure Ecrepont needs written off because he’s not starting every week for us at 18.

Luke McCowan was at 18 on loan at Lugar, Annbank at 19 and by 21 had played 90 mins only once in his senior career. Crawford and Forrest broke through in far worse teams when the competition for places were the likes of Ryan McStay and a crocked Michael McGowan.

Last season being stopped when it was meant we didn’t get to see how Kerr was planning to deal with Harvie’s upcoming suspension and whether or not Ecrepont would have had the chance or someone else would have filled in.  

[ayrunitedfw]

I have no issues with Finn Ecrepont being loaned out as at his age he does need game time it’s more the timing of it that I have the issue with. The alternative to Patrick Reading is Aaron Muirhead which just doesn’t bare thinking about. We may well sign another defender but the deal for Ecrepont shouldn’t have been sanctioned until said defender was signed. 

[Finlay21]

16 minutes ago, ayrunitedfw said:

I have no issues with Finn Ecrepont being loaned out as at his age he does need game time it’s more the timing of it that I have the issue with. The alternative to Patrick Reading is Aaron Muirhead which just doesn’t bare thinking about. We may well sign another defender but the deal for Ecrepont shouldn’t have been sanctioned until said defender was signed. 

Think Kerr knows who he has and who is coming on board , if his decision is that Finn was not going to get much game time then surely he has done what’s best for Finn , yet guys in here are advocating that he should be staying and sitting on the bench waiting on Reading getting injured or losing form , the player is delighted to be giving a chance to prove himself , the timing is correct as he needs to also train with his new team 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Robbo63

[Finlay21]

26 minutes ago, HMIP said:

That’s the point being made I think.  Given there were high hopes for the player, it’s disappointing that at 18, those who see him regularly don’t think he’s close to being involved with the first team.  Truthfully, if you’re not ready to be involved at Championship level by that age, you probably never will be.  McCowan might be viewed  as an exception, but I think that was more down to McCall taking so little interest in the youths that he was genuinely unaware that he had a real prospect kicking his heels.

The person who stated it’s the right move for him and talking about it being beneficial for him and the team is not a coach it’s family , also stating that if your not ready for Championship football at 18 you never will be is such a naive comment to make , the boy has not even been loaned out to any junior teams yet , shows what we and other think of him that he has been loaned out to a professional club , how many players at 18 are getting much game time in the Championship   ? Bet you could count them on 1 hand 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Robbo63

[ayrunitedfw]

We could really be doing with a few #imminents this week. 

[Finlay21]

4 minutes ago, ayrunitedfw said:

We could really be doing with a few #imminents this week. 

You certainly could to convince you the decisions being made now are the correct ones , when they are made you can rest easy and look forward to getting in to see them

[HMIP]

5 minutes ago, Robbo63 said:

The person who stated it’s the right move for him and talking about it being beneficial for him and the team is not a coach it’s family , also stating that if your not ready for Championship football at 18 you never will be is such a naive comment to make , the boy has not even been loaned out to any junior teams yet , shows what we and other think of him that he has been loaned out to a professional club , how many players at 18 are getting much game time in the Championship   ? Bet you could count them on 1 hand 

I think that’s more a reflection of how poor youth development is at Championship level.  It’s not that players aren’t getting a chance, it’s that they simply aren’t being produced in the first place.  Our own track record over the last 20 years is absolutely woeful, but the players we have produced (Forrest, Crawford, Craig Conway, Stewart Kean) were all well involved in the first team by around 18.  I can’t think of too many others.  Jackson Longridge should have been involved but wasn’t due to  Mark Roberts’ limitless ineptitude and McCowan should have been involved earlier but wasn’t due to McCall being so blinkered.  Show me examples of players who’ve been released at 18 who’ve come back to bite us?  

Clubs our size that are getting and have gotten youth development right in recent times  (Hamilton, Falkirk and Livingston) have a clear track record of getting players involved with the first team early as well as a track record of being pretty ruthless with boys that aren’t making the grade.

Personally, I think youth development academies are becoming a bit of a cottage industry in this country with lots of people, including ex pros making decent money from them, but delivering little in terms of results.  I think it suits this cottage industry just fine to create this idea that players in their late teens who are no where near ready or good enough for the first team should be regarded as good young prospects who ought to be persevered with.  I’ve honestly lost track of the number of players at Ayr In recent times who’ve reached the age of 19/20 and are still being touted as prospects when they’ve never kicked a ball for the first team. 

I think at Ayr we should be setting the academy a clear target of producing 2 players a year who can step up to the first team squad, otherwise, what’s the point?  Would hopefully put some pressure on them to start delivering as they seem to be in a comfort zone, operating a conveyor belt of talent for the Juniors.

 

 

 

, 

[itzdrk]

4 hours ago, conley said:

When Kelly, Doohan and Houston turned up on our doorstep, they had in total between them played 4league games(all  by Houston at loan to Airdrie.. rotation is normally employed by clubs who are likely to play 50/60 games a season and to give players a rest...we will play 27 league games...the boy Ecrepont is better off at Albion and I would be surprised if there is not a clause in the deal allowing Ayr to recall him if he is required.

We can recall him as we please but he can only play for us if we either recall him before this transfer window ends or during the January window.  It should be good for him to go somewhere and play though, I just hope we have appropriate cover sorted. 

[edwardo]

55 minutes ago, HMIP said:

I think that’s more a reflection of how poor youth development is at Championship level.  It’s not that players aren’t getting a chance, it’s that they simply aren’t being produced in the first place.  Our own track record over the last 20 years is absolutely woeful, but the players we have produced (Forrest, Crawford, Craig Conway, Stewart Kean) were all well involved in the first team by around 18.  I can’t think of too many others.  Jackson Longridge should have been involved but wasn’t due to  Mark Roberts’ limitless ineptitude and McCowan should have been involved earlier but wasn’t due to McCall being so blinkered.  Show me examples of players who’ve been released at 18 who’ve come back to bite us?  

Clubs our size that are getting and have gotten youth development right in recent times  (Hamilton, Falkirk and Livingston) have a clear track record of getting players involved with the first team early as well as a track record of being pretty ruthless with boys that aren’t making the grade.

Personally, I think youth development academies are becoming a bit of a cottage industry in this country with lots of people, including ex pros making decent money from them, but delivering little in terms of results.  I think it suits this cottage industry just fine to create this idea that players in their late teens who are no where near ready or good enough for the first team should be regarded as good young prospects who ought to be persevered with.  I’ve honestly lost track of the number of players at Ayr In recent times who’ve reached the age of 19/20 and are still being touted as prospects when they’ve never kicked a ball for the first team. 

I think at Ayr we should be setting the academy a clear target of producing 2 players a year who can step up to the first team squad, otherwise, what’s the point?  Would hopefully put some pressure on them to start delivering as they seem to be in a comfort zone, operating a conveyor belt of talent for the Juniors.

 

 

 

, 

There is lots of very good young players at our academy and we will see the benefit of this in the next few years . Finn stayed on at school which has probably held him back a wee bit interns of development however he has now finished school and 100% focused on football .with the chance to play week in week out against men will bring him in rather than maybe getting the odd 19 minutes here or there and as I said hopefully the club will benefit from this in the long term 

[ayrunitedfw]

[Iain]

Guess there's a lot of money on hearts already because their team doesn't warrant those odds.

[D'Jaffo]

Also don’t see how ICT can be third favourites either. I’d have us and Dunfermline ahead of them at the minute.