The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[rb123!]

The league is going to be tougher next year with potentially Hearts getting relegated and Raith and Falkirk being promoted. Also the real possibility of no part time teams which would leave us with nowhere to hide.

I mean the championship next season could include Dundee, Hearts, Inverness, Partick Thistle, Dunfermline, Queen of the South, Morton, Falkirk, Raith Rovers and us.

That on paper should be the most competitive league in a few years in the championship, probably since the likes of Rangers, Hearts and Hibs were in the championship.

[D'Jaffo]

The league is going to be tougher next year with potentially Hearts getting relegated and Raith and Falkirk being promoted. Also the real possibility of no part time teams which would leave us with nowhere to hide.

I mean the championship next season could include Dundee, Hearts, Inverness, Partick Thistle, Dunfermline, Queen of the South, Morton, Falkirk, Raith Rovers and us.

That on paper should be the most competitive league in a few years in the championship, probably since the likes of Rangers, Hearts and Hibs were in the championship.

Imo the league next year will be us, Airdrie, Arbroath, Dunfermline, Dundee, Falkirk, Hamilton, ICT, Thistle and QOTS.

That’s got the potential to be the worst Championship in living memory.

[RandomGuy.]

8 hours ago, BukyOHare said:

Bigger attendances, bigger budget. Easier said than done

Its nigh on impossible in Scottish football just now to be increasing attendances so much they impact your budget significantly. 

St Johnstone have a decade in the top flight, been the 4th best side in that time, multiple European games with 6k+ crowds, multiple Cup Semi Finals, and a Cup win in front of 15k fans. An offer that sees u12s get in free, and any adult with them getting in for £16, and a stand opened solely for families based on their demands.

Our average attendance this season is pretty close to being exactly the same as the last one we had in the second tier.

If you're under the belief you'll gain 1000+ fans, week in, week out, then you're deluded. If you're lucky you'll gain that upon promotion and the initial buzz, but come season 2/3, or relegation, theyll disappear again.

Edited January 15, 2020 by RandomGuy.

[BukyOHare]

15 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Its nigh on impossible in Scottish football just now to be increasing attendances so much they impact your budget significantly. 

St Johnstone have a decade in the top flight, been the 4th best side in that time, multiple European games with 6k+ crowds, multiple Cup Semi Finals, and a Cup win in front of 15k fans. An offer that sees u12s get in free, and any adult with them getting in for £16, and a stand opened solely for families based on their demands.

Our average attendance this season is pretty close to being exactly the same as the last one we had in the second tier.

If you're under the belief you'll gain 1000+ fans, week in, week out, then you're deluded. If you're lucky you'll gain that upon promotion and the initial buzz, but come season 2/3, or relegation, theyll disappear again.

I get the overall message of what your club's gone and is going through, of course its difficult for every club outwith the big 5. I cant disagree with the vast majority of what you've said

But crucially where did I mention putting 1000+ fans onto the gate? I dont think I mentioned any figures. I am certainly not deluded. 

But for arguments sake, if we could get an extra 200 fans that would equate to a 20% increase on what we have been getting recently. It is that stark. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by BukyOHare

[Iain]

If they double the gate prices they wouldn't need as many extra fans. 

[Finlay21]

 

ROSS COUNTY CUP TIE

( aware there is a cup thread but only 3 comments on it )

If we reduced price it would be a financial disaster , dropping price to £10 and £5 on a crowd of say around 1300/1500 would result on us needing nearly 2000 to achieve same income , no way an extra 500/600 are going to turn up because it’s cheaper unfortunately

Remember season tickets not valid for this cup tie

Edited January 15, 2020 by Robbo63

[pandarilla]

It wasn't an entirely serious post.

If we are to progress to the premier league, we need a perfect storm like Livingston or Hamilton. It didn't happen last year, we needed investment at Christmas to keep the challenge up on Ross County and we didn't have a board willing/capable. 

A decent start after promotion can keep you in the league for a year or so as Livingston and Ross County have shown and I think we blew the chance last year, the result is we are now having the best squad assembled for 15 years plundered by teams round about us and no investment to keep the momentum up. 

When the club showed ambition, keeping Shankland etc, the fans responded and bought shirts and season tickets, put in to the 500 club....a year later the message, via McCall was, the ambition from Cameron, in particular had gone. If the club looks like it is moving forward, fans will put more money in. 

Cameron has no desire (not saying the dreaded A word) to progress us as a club and is just happy to sustain us until such a time he is able to pass on the club to a new owner.  Crowds are going to continue to dwindle until such a time as this happens or Cameron does a U-Turn and puts some money in. From a business POV you would of thought we would be a much more attractive proposition as a premiership club. 

 

This league is complete dug meat and last season and this season was a perfect opportunity to give us a good chance of promotion. We still sit in a decent position this season so all is not lost but we must get a few decent players in. 

Am I right in saying the only suggestion you have for us 'looking like we're moving forward' is Cameron or someone else putting their hand in their pockets and paying higher wages for a few extra players?

 

Or is there something else that they could be doing without contributing a load of new investment which they would almost certainly never see back?

 

Putting money into Scottish football at the moment is not an investment, it's a gift that will never be returned. Only someone with too much spare cash would do such a thing, and I can't believe you're criticising the guy for not taking up that wonderful offer.

 

Genuine question though, what else could the club be doing?

 

[BukyOHare]

22 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Am I right in saying the only suggestion you have for us 'looking like we're moving forward' is Cameron or someone else putting their hand in their pockets and paying higher wages for a few extra players?

 

Or is there something else that they could be doing without contributing a load of new investment which they would almost certainly never see back?

 

Putting money into Scottish football at the moment is not an investment, it's a gift that will never be returned. Only someone with too much spare cash would do such a thing, and I can't believe you're criticising the guy for not taking up that wonderful offer.

 

Genuine question though, what else could the club be doing?

 

Nobody knows apparently, that shone through for me from my posts last night. Plenty know what isn't being done though.

[ayrunitedfw]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

Am I right in saying the only suggestion you have for us 'looking like we're moving forward' is Cameron or someone else putting their hand in their pockets and paying higher wages for a few extra players?

 

Or is there something else that they could be doing without contributing a load of new investment which they would almost certainly never see back?

 

Putting money into Scottish football at the moment is not an investment, it's a gift that will never be returned. Only someone with too much spare cash would do such a thing, and I can't believe you're criticising the guy for not taking up that wonderful offer.

 

Genuine question though, what else could the club be doing?

 

No one is asking the club to chuck a shitload of money at it but at least show some signs of want to progress as a club. Like I’ve already said this league is piss poor and a few good signings and we have a serious chance of promotion. 
 

It almost seems like the board don’t give a f**k about where our placing is in Scottish football. The silence was deafening when the two directors left and there reason for doing so and that leads to rumours starting. 

[pandarilla]

No one is asking the club to chuck a shitload of money at it but at least show some signs of want to progress as a club. Like I’ve already said this league is piss poor and a few good signings and we have a serious chance of promotion. 
 
It almost seems like the board don’t give a f**k about where our placing is in Scottish football. The silence was deafening when the two directors left and there reason for doing so and that leads to rumours starting. 

But you're still talking about putting money in that they won't get back?

[harry94]

21 minutes ago, ayrunitedfw said:

No one is asking the club to chuck a shitload of money at it but at least show some signs of want to progress as a club. Like I’ve already said this league is piss poor and a few good signings and we have a serious chance of promotion. 
 

It almost seems like the board don’t give a f**k about where our placing is in Scottish football. The silence was deafening when the two directors left and there reason for doing so and that leads to rumours starting. 

Out of interest, what sort of figures are Ayr in deficit/profit these days?

[Jeff Venom]

Wonder what the "immediate injection" of cash was/is for with the new joining the board.

[BukyOHare]

17 minutes ago, harry94 said:

Out of interest, what sort of figures are Ayr in deficit/profit these days?

I believe there was a loss of around £72,000 for the last set of accounts, year end June 2018.

[honestly united]

I think the issue is we are stuck in the middle ground.

Any player who would want to sign a longer contract (ie 2 or 3 years) with us is probably going to be someone we wouldn't want to sign.

Imagine if we had 6 or 7 players signed on 2 or 3 year contracts that turned out not to be good enough = we would be paying their wages and either getting relegated, or paying the additional for replacements and putting the club in debt.

The only chance we have for longer contracts is when we / if we sign lads from the academy. Getting Ecrepont of a long deal is good for both parties. However for every Harvie & Rose (who took a season or so to come good) that we sign up after leaving a top division side as a youngster, there is also a Kevin Cawley

 

Edit to add, when we first signed Shankland, how many people would have been happy if we offered him a 3 year deal? in hindsight it would have been good, but if he had flopped like he did at the majority of clubs before can you imagine where we would have been.

Edited January 15, 2020 by honestly united

[BukyOHare]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

Am I right in saying the only suggestion you have for us 'looking like we're moving forward' is Cameron or someone else putting their hand in their pockets and paying higher wages for a few extra players?

 

Or is there something else that they could be doing without contributing a load of new investment which they would almost certainly never see back?

 

Putting money into Scottish football at the moment is not an investment, it's a gift that will never be returned. Only someone with too much spare cash would do such a thing, and I can't believe you're criticising the guy for not taking up that wonderful offer.

 

Genuine question though, what else could the club be doing?

 

It was mooted a while back but what about a share issue for individuals (fans or otherwise) to buy newly created or available shares in the club. 

A new issue may dilute the percentage owned by each current shateholder and I believe there are costs involved but is it worthy of looking at some sort of feasibility study to see if it would be worthwhile? 

As was touched upon yesterday, by D'Jaffo I believe, its becoming clear that the major shareholder is looking to do the absolute bare minimum. He'll have his reasons and that's his decision which like it or not should be respected.

If it is accurate then anything we achieve on the field resembling over achieving is a modern day miracle. 

 

[rb123!]

In other news McCall is officially after Harvie apparently

[THEHonestman1910]

1 minute ago, rb123! said:

In other news McCall is officially after Harvie apparently

He's just gone and signed Zak Rudden on a 2 and a half year deal. 

[BukyOHare]

25 minutes ago, honestly united said:

I think the issue is we are stuck in the middle ground.

Any player who would want to sign a longer contract (ie 2 or 3 years) with us is probably going to be someone we wouldn't want to sign.

Imagine if we had 6 or 7 players signed on 2 or 3 year contracts that turned out not to be good enough = we would be paying their wages and either getting relegated, or paying the additional for replacements and putting the club in debt.

The only chance we have for longer contracts is when we / if we sign lads from the academy. Getting Ecrepont of a long deal is good for both parties. However for every Harvie & Rose (who took a season or so to come good) that we sign up after leaving a top division side as a youngster, there is also a Kevin Cawley

 

Edit to add, when we first signed Shankland, how many people would have been happy if we offered him a 3 year deal? in hindsight it would have been good, but if he had flopped like he did at the majority of clubs before can you imagine where we would have been.

By all accounts, players in the position of Shankland, Rose, Harvie and Devlin are unwilling to commit to a 2 year deal and perhaps that is true for fear that they don't get their move in the summer of the end of their one year contract. 

Would there ever be a scenario in place that these players are offered two year contracts which have a mutually agreeable release clause in them and attached sell on clauses, with an assurance from the club that we won't stand in your way at the end of year 1 if the clause is met. The players know those at the club inside out, there's no chance the club would hold them against their will. 

It doesn't have to be huge amounts but something that gives the club some income when valuable assets move on. To put it into a bit of perspective, teams in England are paying healthy six figure fees for non league players in this window. 

There has to be more of a middle ground found for the club. We're letting once in a generation players leave and getting nothing but a handshake for them. 

That doesn't pay the bills and simply has to change or be rectified. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by BukyOHare

[AyrTroopMajor]

Whilst I would love to see investment in the squad, I believe there is a potentially huge point made further up about next season's Championship being significantly weaker than normal. Perhaps it is a case of waiting to spend the money at the right time. Bringing players in now is all very well, but we are currently competing against teams like Dundee United who seem to not give a flying f**k about whether they are making a loss or not.

 

[D'Jaffo]

We’ve got a couple of lads on trial from Ipswich. Midfielder Brett McGavin and striker Aaron Drinan.