The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, malkyshotton said:

People forget where we actually are in footballing terms. As pointed out clubs can't afford insurance for players generally at our level with the exceptions of maybe 2 or 3 clubs in this division.

I don't know if it's due to the English and top European football coverage (that we're bombarded with 24 / 7) has maybe clouded the judgement of some people into thinking that all clubs (including ours) are operating at similar levels.

The reality is that we're playing in front of 1,800 - 2,200 punters each week and we get very little in the way of TV and advertising revenue, as such we're really struggling to pay our full time players a wage which is in line with current national averages but I'm afraid that's just the way of it and for every Man City and Liverpool you've got another couple of hundred real football clubs who are in exactly the same boat.

It is what it is, but being honest I wouldn't swap what we've got in order to live a fantasy for a couple of years....................

[HMIP]

49 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

You can expect all you like but it's prohibitively expensive for clubs at our level to obtain private medical insurance for professional footballers. And if you do get it then it won't cover pre-existing injuries anyway (injure the knee once, it's not going to be covered for repeat injuries). It's almost certainly cheaper to carry no medical insurance and deal with operations on a pay as you go basis. Sometimes that will mean the NHS is as good and quick as anything. Sometimes you need to go more specialist and pay for something directly.

If there was a shred of truth to this, the entire insurance industry would collapse tomorrow.   

[Hawk89]

27 minutes ago, HMIP said:

If there was a shred of truth to this, the entire insurance industry would collapse tomorrow.   

Why would it collapse tomorrow? 

[Skyline Drifter]

52 minutes ago, HMIP said:

If there was a shred of truth to this, the entire insurance industry would collapse tomorrow.   

Why is that then? (this should be good)

[HMIP]

32 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Why is that then? (this should be good)

Because the whole point of insurance is to mitigate against the risk of paying out the full cost of a future cost or loss on a pay as you go basis.   If it was cheaper to just pay out against loss or damage, we wouldn’t bother taking out motor or house insurance or any of the other insurances we take in life.    

You stated that it is “almost certainly” cheaper to carry no insurances and simply pay for private medical costs on a pay as you go basis.  I suspect that’s a statement you pulled out of wherever rather than something backed up by actual facts.   If on the other hand a club like Ayr chooses to rely solely on the NHS and in-house physio with no provision for private care, then clearly there is no point in carrying private insurances.

Hope this helps.

Edited December 3, 2019 by HMIP

[AyrExile]

1 hour ago, HMIP said:

Because the whole point of insurance is to mitigate against the risk of paying out the full cost of a future cost or loss on a pay as you go basis.   If it was cheaper to just pay out against loss or damage, we wouldn’t bother taking out motor or house insurance or any of the other insurances we take in life.    

You stated that it is “almost certainly” cheaper to carry no insurances and simply pay for private medical costs on a pay as you go basis.  I suspect that’s a statement you pulled out of wherever rather than something backed up by actual facts.   If on the other hand a club like Ayr chooses to rely solely on the NHS and in-house physio with no provision for private care, then clearly there is no point in carrying private insurances.

Hope this helps.

 

if your car is stolen or house flooded which third party will sort it out for you?  If you have a serious injury the nhs will treat you straight away. A minor injury and you could wait months. Insurance premiums will also be hefty for clubs as players get injured frequently. Therefore why not just avoid the premiums and let the NHS treat the serious injuries. Minor injuries can be dealt with by our physio and if needed fork out for surgery where required.  

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, HMIP said:

Because the whole point of insurance is to mitigate against the risk of paying out the full cost of a future cost or loss on a pay as you go basis.   If it was cheaper to just pay out against loss or damage, we wouldn’t bother taking out motor or house insurance or any of the other insurances we take in life.    

You stated that it is “almost certainly” cheaper to carry no insurances and simply pay for private medical costs on a pay as you go basis.  I suspect that’s a statement you pulled out of wherever rather than something backed up by actual facts.   If on the other hand a club like Ayr chooses to rely solely on the NHS and in-house physio with no provision for private care, then clearly there is no point in carrying private insurances.

Hope this helps.

Uh huh, that's the whole point of insurance. However, unlike the motor industry (where carrying some sort of insurance is actually compulsory) and the house owning scenario (where a lender will require insurance to be in place - however, if you own your house outright you have the freedom to choose whether to insure it or not), with medical insurance it's a cost against reward decision.

I have 20 years of experience in working on this to back up my "almost certainly" statement. You appear to be just guessing. Badly.

You do realise that if it was cheaper for everybody to pay insurance than to pay the costs of the treatment directly there wouldn't be any insurance companies offering medical cover because they would all be losing money? Insurance is a gamble. Insurance companies work out the odds when they set the premiums. Like Bookmakers, it isn't the insurance companies who lose.

[HMIP]

24 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Uh huh, that's the whole point of insurance. However, unlike the motor industry (where carrying some sort of insurance is actually compulsory) and the house owning scenario (where a lender will require insurance to be in place - however, if you own your house outright you have the freedom to choose whether to insure it or not), with medical insurance it's a cost against reward decision.

I have 20 years of experience in working on this to back up my "almost certainly" statement. You appear to be just guessing. Badly.

You do realise that if it was cheaper for everybody to pay insurance than to pay the costs of the treatment directly there wouldn't be any insurance companies offering medical cover because they would all be losing money? Insurance is a gamble. Insurance companies work out the odds when they set the premiums. Like Bookmakers, it isn't the insurance companies who lose.

Don’t quote your credentials at me Sir.  

And for all your 20 years experience, you don’t seem to understand the business model which underpins the insurance industry,  which is that the vast majority of insurance policies never pay out.  That’s how they make their money.  They lose money on the small minority of policies that do pay out.  That is, they are not gambling that a claim will be less than the premium paid, they are gambling that you will never claim at all.   

[pandarilla]

Don’t quote your credentials at me Sir.  
And for all your 20 years experience, you don’t seem to understand the business model which underpins the insurance industry,  which is that the vast majority of insurance policies never pay out.  That’s how they make their money.  They lose money on the small minority of policies that do pay out.  That is, they are not gambling that a claim will be less than the premium paid, they are gambling that you will never claim at all.   

You're making an arse of yourself here.

Health companies in America do not cover pre-existing conditions. I struggle to get travel insurance to travel to the States for the same reason.

I'm not sure of the details but insurance companies do not have to offer a policy if they think a player has a recurring injury (particularly knees). Either that or the quote would be so massive that it would definitely make more sense to take the risk yourself (as a club).

[Hursty]

We HAVE to be losing money on this ticket system.  I got in using my ticket from the Inverness game which still hasn't been scanned. All for it but folk will rip the hole out that if they get word. 

[mccurdieboy]

We HAVE to be losing money on this ticket system.  I got in using my ticket from the Inverness game which still hasn't been scanned. All for it but folk will rip the hole out that if they get word. 

Well there obviously going to know now when you have posted on here.

[eez-eh]

1 hour ago, Hursty said:

We HAVE to be losing money on this ticket system.  I got in using my ticket from the Inverness game which still hasn't been scanned. All for it but folk will rip the hole out that if they get word. 

You must be delighted at so openly cheating the club out of money.

[Hursty]

Just now, eez-eh said:

You must be delighted at so openly cheating the club out of money.

Not sure how to multi quote but I've paid for both tickets ie Inverness and Dunfermline. Got them both on my account both still showing as unused as neither have been scanned.  Thought I'd try the Inverness one out of interest when I saw there were no scanners.  So f**k you with your claims of cheating the club out of money mate.  Just a concern that some folk may realise its that easy and just WhatsApp the same ticket to all their pals etc and get in for free.  

[Hursty]

1 hour ago, mccurdieboy said:

1 hour ago, Hursty said:

We HAVE to be losing money on this ticket system.  I got in using my ticket from the Inverness game which still hasn't been scanned. All for it but folk will rip the hole out that if they get word. 

Well there obviously going to know now when you have posted on here.

I'd rather they knew.  It's a massive flaw in what should be a good system

[eez-eh]

Just now, Hursty said:

Not sure how to multi quote but I've paid for both tickets ie Inverness and Dunfermline. Got them both on my account both still showing as unused as neither have been scanned.  Thought I'd try the Inverness one out of interest when I saw there were no scanners.  So f**k you with your claims of cheating the club out of money mate.  Just a concern that some folk may realise its that easy and just WhatsApp the same ticket to all their pals etc and get in for free.  

The way you’d worded it makes it sound like you’ve just been using the same ticket for several games without paying for another one. There’s been 3 home games since the Inverness one.

[Hursty]

Just now, eez-eh said:

The way you’d worded it makes it sound like you’ve just been using the same ticket for several games without paying for another one. There’s been 3 home games since the Inverness one.

That was the last game I was at and ticket didn't get scanned that day - I've got a couple more on my account that I bought for my old man and they got scanned and have a checked in time etc against them now.  But it does seem like I could have done exactly what you say if I had wanted to.  That cant be a good thing if it's that easy.    After tonight's performance I kind of wish I had saved my £18 haha

[ayrunitedfw]

I have a season ticket but the scanners at the turnstiles at hospitality weren’t working. Boy was just marking it on a bit of paper. 

[eez-eh]

2 minutes ago, Hursty said:

That was the last game I was at and ticket didn't get scanned that day - I've got a couple more on my account that I bought for my old man and they got scanned and have a checked in time etc against them now.  But it does seem like I could have done exactly what you say if I had wanted to.  That cant be a good thing if it's that easy.    After tonight's performance I kind of wish I had saved my £18 haha

I do agree with what you’re saying though. Of the home games I’ve been to most of the time the scanners haven’t been working and it’s been someone writing tally marks down on a piece of paper which is fairly tragic.

To your point, you could have a large group of mates all using the same ticket that they’ve just forwarded on to one another and the turnstile operator has no way of knowing. It’s a bit of a shambles.

[Skyline Drifter]

4 hours ago, HMIP said:

Don’t quote your credentials at me Sir.  

And for all your 20 years experience, you don’t seem to understand the business model which underpins the insurance industry,  which is that the vast majority of insurance policies never pay out.  That’s how they make their money.  They lose money on the small minority of policies that do pay out.  That is, they are not gambling that a claim will be less than the premium paid, they are gambling that you will never claim at all.   

No shit Sherlock! I think everyone with a double figure IQ understands how insurance works.

You however dont appear to comprehend a simple cost v benefit financial model.

[eez-eh]

In other riveting news, our quest with Dundee United over who will be the last club this season across both Scottish and English league football to draw a game continues.