The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[stewartyftd1]

Sorry wee sacs

[Dens83]

I understand contract law just fine thanks. Okay - let's just keep this factual then.
The enforceability of a pre-contract will depend on the specific terms of the agreement. Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked ‘Subject to Contract’ and are simply a commitment by the parties to enter into a later contract. The difference between a pre-contract and a contract is that the parties to the pre-contract have not agreed the essential terms and so the pre-contract does not reflect the final agreement. However, if a pre-contract contains all the essential terms that have been agreed, then the pre-contract is effectively a final contract and is likely to be binding.
To sum up - only if the Pre-Contact is effectively a Contract with all the terms and considerations agreed with just the inception date deferred then, just like other contracts, is is enforceable.
If it is just a commitment to contract it's not.    
 

Are they binding under Scottish law?

[Pull My Strings]

Just now, Yid_in_Exiile said:

I understand contract law just fine thanks. Okay - let's just keep this factual then.

The enforceability of a pre-contract will depend on the specific terms of the agreement. Pre-contracts are generally not binding under English law as they are usually marked ‘Subject to Contract’ and are simply a commitment by the parties to enter into a later contract. The difference between a pre-contract and a contract is that the parties to the pre-contract have not agreed the essential terms and so the pre-contract does not reflect the final agreement. However, if a pre-contract contains all the essential terms that have been agreed, then the pre-contract is effectively a final contract and is likely to be binding.

To sum up - only if the Pre-Contact is effectively a Contract with all the terms and considerations agreed with just the inception date deferred then, just like other contracts, is is enforceable.

If it is just a commitment to contract it's not.    

 

Have you just googled "pre-contract" , you little scamp? 

That's an English source, btw. Is it with specific reference to pre-contracts in football? 

Anyway, what is referred to as a "pre-contract" in football terms is in fact a pre-registration contract. "Pre-contract" is a misnomer. Players can't transfer registrations outwith transfer windows but can agree to do so in advance of the window. In layperson's terms (i.e. you) the player enters into an employment contract to begin on a specified future date - all the essential contractual terms are agreed (duration, wages, etc.) but the contract does not take effect until the player's registration is transferred.

Now, there is a general prohibition on enforcing contracts of employment (as it is abhorrent to the law to force a man to work for you against his will) and so contracts of employment are not enforceable by way of ad factum praestandum (specific implement). If a player were to refuse to honour the contract ("pre-contract") the club could not force him to honour the contract - in exactly the same way as if you chose not to honour your contract of employment your employer could not make you come into work. If you're easily replaceable then you would simply be sacked - if not, and it would take time/money to replace you, then you would be sued for breach of contract. So, yes, a "pre-contract" is not legally enforceable in the sense that a club cannot enforce the obligations under the contract but that is not to say that a "pre-contract" is not legally enforceable in that there is not a legal obligation to perform and very real remedies open in the event of non-performance. I trust that's clear.

It's good form to cite your sources, btw. What was your source?

My source is that I am actually a lawyer.

 

[Yid_in_Exiile]

It's broadly the same, apart from consideration (payment in return for performing the contact) is not a requirement. 

Nothing stated above contradicts what I said earlier. If all the terms and conditions are agreed then it is effectively a contract. It is just promissory then it's not.

Finally,  as he is a lawyer, I unreservedly apologise for calling Pull My Strings a moron.  ;-)

Edited April 11, 2019 by Yid_in_Exiile

[stewartyftd1]

Who cares anyway. He’s joining the Terrors.

Sorry lads

[D'Jaffo]

Are they binding under Scottish law?

No

In Scots Law you can’t agree to agree something. For example if he’s agreed to sign a contract on a specific date it’s not enforceable.

[D'Jaffo]

Anyway the timing of this is very strange. I’m sure the rumours first started before the last game at Somerset.

If he has signed then it’ll be the best bit of business Dundee Utd will do next season as he’ll absolutely stroll this league. He should’ve waited though and assessed at the end of the season.

[stewartyftd1]

Anyway the timing of this is very strange. I’m sure the rumours first started before the last game at Somerset.

If he has signed then it’ll be the best bit of business Dundee Utd will do next season as he’ll absolutely stroll this league. He should’ve waited though and assessed at the end of the season.

You seem to be adamant and take it as fact that we will be in the Championship next year. Will be pleasing to come back here when we get promoted.

[super_carson]

Does not essentially boil down to the terms of that specific contract? IE if a player signed a pre-contract and had agreed to a cancellation clause (penalty fee, for example) then the club would have a right to that clause (whatever form) to being adhered to? And perhaps for some clubs it just wouldn’t be worth chasing it up?

Basically, without knowing if Smith has actually signed a pre-contact (a local paper the week of a game is not a valid source...) or if he has, what the particulars of such agreement are, there’s no way of actually deciding if it’s something he has to honour.

If he has, and he goes, good luck to him. He probably could be guaranteed premiership football elsewhere but he may be considering guaranteed game time as part of the deal.

[D'Jaffo]

League below or not we are a bigger club than those I’ve just stated. Surely you can accept that we have bigger aspirations than these teams?

If he went to a Premiership team then I’m absolutely certain he could get a really good move down South and potentially be considered for an international call up.

However signing a 2 year deal for another Championship club, being a bigger club is a complete irrelevance, is a risk as he’s not proving himself at a higher level which means he’s not going to get the best possible move for himself. And secondly he’s unlikely to gain recognition that would to a Scotland call up.

It’s not about ambition as he’s unlikely to be at Dundee Utd long enough to actually win a major trophy. Dundee United might be a bigger club that Motherwell or Hamilton. But those two clubs are far better stepping stones to a big move than Dundee Utd.

[D'Jaffo]

You seem to be adamant and take it as fact that we will be in the Championship next year. Will be pleasing to come back here when we get promoted.

I’m fairly confident yes. As are most of your supporters.

[Ira Gaines]

If Dundee United play in the final of the playoffs, they're probably going up. I'd say that about whatever Championship side gets there as well.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, stewartyftd1 said:

You seem to be adamant and take it as fact that we will be in the Championship next year. Will be pleasing to come back here when we get promoted.

I honestly don't know why you're getting so uptight about this ?

All we've stated is that Liam Smith is undeniably a top player in this division and a Scotland U21 regular and as such he should be able to find a club playing at a higher level.

None of us dispute the fact that Dundee Utd or even Falkirk,  Partick, or Dunfermline for that matter, are bigger clubs than Ayr, however the fact remains that you may not get promoted and he'd still be stuck at this same level for at least another year.

That's it..........

[stewartyftd1]

I honestly don't know why you're getting so uptight about this ?
All we've stated is that Liam Smith is undeniably a top player in this division and a Scotland U21 regular and as such he should be able to find a club playing at a higher level.
None of us dispute the fact that Dundee Utd or even Falkirk,  Partick, or Dunfermline for that matter, are bigger clubs than Ayr, however the fact remains that you may not get promoted and he'd still be stuck at this same level for at least another year.
That's it..........

Its funny listening to all you Ayr fans being a bit big headed after a flash in the pan half season. It just seems like you are so bitter and cant believe he would leave Ayr to join Dundee United. Im merely pointing out the reasons why.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, stewartyftd1 said:

 

Its funny listening to all you Ayr fans being a bit big headed after a flash in the pan half season. It just seems like you are so bitter and cant believe he would leave Ayr to join Dundee United. Im merely pointing out the reasons why.
 

 

Did you not read my post ???

[callum-ayr]

Hmmm, would Smith be the biggest loss from our team? No. If it’s true I’d just slit Geggan in for the rest of the season who has a much better end product than Smith. Smiths good at getting up and down the wing, but his crosses rarely meet an Ayr player. Could Smith be trusted now in games v Dundee Utd? Not so sure.

[D'Jaffo]

Its funny listening to all you Ayr fans being a bit big headed after a flash in the pan half season. It just seems like you are so bitter and cant believe he would leave Ayr to join Dundee United. Im merely pointing out the reasons why.

Well done for failing to understand anything about the post you’ve just quoted. You’re a bright one.

Every Ayr fan knew he was leaving at the end of the season but they’d have expected him to move to a better club than Dundee United. That’s all. I don’t see why you keep trotting out the same stuff about them being a bigger club or Ayr fans being bitter. It’s very tiresome and you likely can’t think of an proper response to the points being made. That’s fair enough but stop being so boring and repetitive.

[D'Jaffo]

Hmmm, would Smith be the biggest loss from our team? No. If it’s true I’d just slit Geggan in for the rest of the season who has a much better end product than Smith. Smiths good at getting up and down the wing, but his crosses rarely meet an Ayr player. Could Smith be trusted now in games v Dundee Utd? Not so sure.

If it’s true then it’s a tricky one.

Imo Smith has been one of our best players in the last couple of games. Him and Harvie.

I’m not overly keen on playing Geggan at RB but I would imagine McCall will have a chat with Smith to see where his head is at.

[Pull My Strings]

8 minutes ago, callum-ayr said:

Hmmm, would Smith be the biggest loss from our team? No. If it’s true I’d just slit Geggan in for the rest of the season who has a much better end product than Smith. Smiths good at getting up and down the wing, but his crosses rarely meet an Ayr player. Could Smith be trusted now in games v Dundee Utd? Not so sure.

When's Geggan's contract up?

[AUFC 1910]

If it’s true then it’s a tricky one.

Imo Smith has been one of our best players in the last couple of games. Him and Harvie.

I’m not overly keen on playing Geggan at RB but I would imagine McCall will have a chat with Smith to see where his head is at.

If McCall has any doubts he will dump him from a great height.

Don't think he will be taking any penalties.