The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[Trogdor]

I'm amazed Newmember hasn't popped his head in with his ITK chat about us selling. 

[Guest]

This will undoubtedly prove controversial, however I'd say that when Dobbie was making his way there was more talent, however at the moment there's very little going around so for that reason I'd say Shankland will do better. Let's be honest has Dobbie improved dramatically into his 30's or is it just because the quality isn't there as it once was ???

Edited December 9, 2018 by Guest

[Mgc1910]

6 hours ago, pandarilla said:

The number of fans from other teams who think we'd be stupid not to take the money is ridiculous.
 

The club have made it clear they aren’t interested in selling if the offer is in the 150-200k range.  But equally, Cameron also stated that any of the bids received in August would have been accepted if Shankland had made it clear he wanted to go.  Turning down AFC fylde or Dundee is one thing, but the standard of clubs lining up to sign the player is about to get a whole lot more tempting.  As others have said, our best hope is probably selling him for a reduced fee to somebody on condition he is loaned back.

[Finlay21]

Anything over £350k will see him go and best of luck to him , Moore and Moffat good enough to keep us going ( plus the possible replacement for Shankland )Take the money to keep club going as god forbid but Shankland could get an injury and be out for season and we then get nothing , there’s more to this club the Shankland ( even though he is a big part of it ) 

[trainspotter]

5 hours ago, Trogdor said:

I'm amazed Newmember hasn't popped his head in with his ITK chat about us selling. 

Northfield 53 is proving to be a more than capable stand-in

[AYRSHIRE_ANGUS]

I just don't want the Shankmeister to end up at Rangers. Yeah sure he's a big fan, but then he'll mature and realise they're a bunch of utter scumbags.

[19QOS19]

This will undoubtedly prove controversial, however I'd say that when Dobbie was making his way there was more talent, however at the moment there's very little going around so for that reason I'd say Shankland will do better. Let's be honest has Dobbie improved dramatically into his 30's or is it just because the quality isn't there as it once was ???

Not sure what you mean by "has Dobbie improved dramatically into his 30's" but he isn't an improved player as such, because he always oozed quality. Dobbie's trouble was never his ability, it was his attitude. He eventually screwed the nut and has a had a very good career. Had he done it earlier I've no doubt he'd have had an even better one. He's just as good as he ever was for us except he's far leaner now.

I'm not sure a comparison of the two just now would have any real answers. Shankland's career is on the up and Dobbie's is coming to an end. As it stands they are both as good as each other I'd say: would Dobbie score goals in that Ayr side? Yes. Would Shankland score goals for us? Yes.

Where Shankland goes next could determine the kind of career he has. I expect he'll do well financially after this season but you have to think he'll want to play regular football at the highest possible level.

A couple of seasons ago we were having similar discussions with Morton fans comparing Dobbie to Quitongo. Injuries appear to have stinted him so you never know what's around the corner.

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, WATTOO said:

This will undoubtedly prove controversial, however I'd say that when Dobbie was making his way there was more talent, however at the moment there's very little going around so for that reason I'd say Shankland will do better. Let's be honest has Dobbie improved dramatically into his 30's or is it just because the quality isn't there as it once was ???

I' m not sure its particularly controversial. There probably was more talent 10 - 12 years ago. Dobbie didnt improve dramatically in his 30s though, he improved dramatically at about 26. He was peerless in his last three or four months with us at this level (Leigh Griffiths may argue otherwise I suppose) before he moved South and terrific with the likes of Swansea and Blackpool after that. Because he is very fit and doesnt rely on pace particularly, he has been able to maintain and improve his levels into his 30s whilst guys who played at a higher level have dropped off much quicker. For instance James McFadden is younger and played at a higher level but Dobbie was a far far better player at this level last year.

Whether Shankland will "do better" remains to be seen.  There are obvious comparisons between them given they are the best two goalscorers at this level and miles ahead of everyone else but they aren't that similar as players. Although his link up play is probably better than most, Shankland is more of an out and out striker than Dobbie is. Dobbie excels as a striker at this level when he plays it (he is sometimes deeper behind Dykes) but at a higher level he wasnt a striker. He played his football at Swansea, Blackpool, Brighton and Palace as a no. 10 or attacking midfielder. He wasnt quick enough to play as a front man down South but his ability on the ball was good enough for him to adapt to a different role.

Given Dobbie made the Championship playoff final 4 times and won three of them Shankland would really need to establish himself in the Premiership down South or in the Scotland team to clearly do better. It will be interesting to see how he does. He will surely be down South by next August.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Skyline Drifter

[LeodhasXD]

1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I' m not sure its particularly controversial. There probably was more talent 10 - 12 years ago. Dobbie didnt improve dramatically in his 30s though, he improved dramatically at about 26. He was peerless in his last three or four months with us at this level (Leigh Griffiths may argue otherwise I suppose) before he moved South and terrific with the likes of Swansea and Blackpool after that. Because he is very fit and doesnt rely on pace particularly, he has been able to maintain and improve his levels into his 30s whilst guys who played at a higher level have dropped off much quicker. For instance James McFadden is younger and played at a higher level but Dobbie was a far far better player at this level last year.

Whether Shankland will "do better" remains to be seen.  There are obvious comparisons between them given they are the best two goalscorers at this level and miles ahead of everyone else but they aren't that similar as players. Although his link up play is probably better than most, Shankland is more of an out and out striker than Dobbie is. Dobbie excels as a striker at this level when he plays it (he is sometimes deeper behind Dykes) but at a higher level he wasnt a striker. He played his football at Swansea, Blackpool, Brighton and Palace as a no. 10 or attacking midfielder. He wasnt quick enough to play as a front man down South but his ability on the ball waa good enough for him to adapt to a different role.

Given Dobbie made the Championship playoff final 4 times and won three of them Shankland would really need to establish himself in the Premiership down South or in the Scotland team to clearly do better. It will be interesting to see how he does. He will surely be down South by next August.

Has Dobbie ever had any serious injuries?

[Skyline Drifter]

Just now, LeodhasXD said:

Has Dobbie ever had any serious injuries?

Not really. I cant pretend to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of his injuries down South but he never missed a game through injury for us in two and a half years in his first spell. He had spells out down South but not aware of anything particularly significant. Nothing measurable in months anyway.

In the three seasons since returning to us:

16-17: Missed one game with a knee issue.

17-18: Missed the opening game of the season with a back problem and then a month or so towards season end after being cynically kicked out of a game against Dundee Utd by Willo Flood.

18-19: Tore his hamstring last week. Extent yet to be confirmed but Naysmith has said he will out "a few weeks".

[UpInTheAyr]

1 hour ago, trainspotter said:

Northfield 53 is proving to be a more than capable stand-in

Not surprised, QOTS fans are worse  than Morton's.

[LeodhasXD]

2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Not really. I cant pretend to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of his injuries down South but he never missed a game through injury for us in two and a half years in his first spell. He had spells out down South but not aware of anything particularly significant. Nothing measurable in months anyway.

In the three seasons since returning to us:

16-17: Missed one game with a knee issue.

17-18: Missed the opening game of the season with a back problem and then a month or so towards season end after being cynically kicked out of a game against Dundee Utd by Willo Flood.

18-19: Tore his hamstring last week. Extent yet to be confirmed but Naysmith has said he will out "a few weeks".

Cheers, I was just wondering. Injuries tend to be hard to find. I think when players get older their injuries catch up to them. Just when you mentioned Faddy I remember he had some serious ones.

[ayrunitedfw]

The only way I’ll be slightly ok with us selling Shankland ( and not getting a loan back) is if we use the money we get for him to tie down the likes of Liam Smith, Michael Rose and Andy Murdoch no longer term contracts. As well as bringing it a couple of players to hopefully get us over the line. 

[D'Jaffo]

In truth it’s hard to compare Dobbie and Shankland as they are so different. Dobbie doesn’t bully defenders the way Shankland does but Dobbie is far more capable of pulling a goal out of thin air than Shankland.

[HoBNob]

I can't see Aye accepting 250k at all, in terms of prize money etc it just wouldn't be worth it. Even if Shankland was to get injured the fact the club didn't sell him would give the fans and the players a lift. 

 

I can only see an offer of 500k and upwards with a nice sell on percentage as being tempting, time will tell. 

 

Even if Ayr get promoted though if Sunderland and Swansea are calling in the summer I can't see him staying, they could legitimately offer him 15k a week to play at the top end of the championship, which would increase his chances of getting national recognition. Incredible opportunity for him. 

[I'm Brian]

4 hours ago, Grant228 said:

I can't see Aye accepting 250k at all, in terms of prize money etc it just wouldn't be worth it. Even if Shankland was to get injured the fact the club didn't sell him would give the fans and the players a lift. 

 

I can only see an offer of 500k and upwards with a nice sell on percentage as being tempting, time will tell. 

 

Even if Ayr get promoted though if Sunderland and Swansea are calling in the summer I can't see him staying, they could legitimately offer him 15k a week to play at the top end of the championship, which would increase his chances of getting national recognition. Incredible opportunity for him. 

At last an opposition fan understands our position. 

There are only two people who matter in this situation. One is Lachlan Cameron, the other is Shankland. 

Buckle up folks this January is going to be a hell of a bumpy ride. And that's before we even think about the road to Auchinleck

 

 

[Mr.Blue]

6 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

Not sure what you mean by "has Dobbie improved dramatically into his 30's" but he isn't an improved player as such, because he always oozed quality. Dobbie's trouble was never his ability, it was his attitude. He eventually screwed the nut and has a had a very good career. Had he done it earlier I've no doubt he'd have had an even better one. He's just as good as he ever was for us except he's far leaner now.

I'm not sure a comparison of the two just now would have any real answers. Shankland's career is on the up and Dobbie's is coming to an end. As it stands they are both as good as each other I'd say: would Dobbie score goals in that Ayr side? Yes. Would Shankland score goals for us? Yes.

Where Shankland goes next could determine the kind of career he has. I expect he'll do well financially after this season but you have to think he'll want to play regular football at the highest possible level.

A couple of seasons ago we were having similar discussions with Morton fans comparing Dobbie to Quitongo. Injuries appear to have stinted him so you never know what's around the corner.

I hope whoever compared quitongo to dobbie was quickly telt.

[Superhursty7]

What ever happens with Shankland we should be getting Rose, Smith, Murdoch, McDaid, Crawford, Forrest etc tied up on longer term deals. Totally understand the one year thing when we are bouncing between leagues but it's fair to say we are going to be at least a championship team next year clubs are going to sniffing about and rubbing there hands together knowing they are out of contract.

[Mgc1910]

Zero chance of either Smith or Rose signing new contracts. Both will get better offers in January or the Summer.

[Guest]

I suppose this is typical modern era post Bosman whwere basically unless you have a Dobbie or Le Tissier type then it's a case of dog eats dog and only the fans of Man City and PSG etc are guaranteed to be able to hold players. In other words we're all selling clubs at every level and if players do well they go, if they do badly you're relegated.

There's something just so depressing about all that............