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The Clyde FC 2018-19 Thread

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39 minutes ago, haufdaft said:

OB, I'm surprised that you seem to be a staunch believer based on not much hard evidence.

 

You say, "the function suite is less than a year old. Yes, it is being promoted as an avenue of assisting club finance, but on gates of 600, and projecting the likely percentage of this who'd use such a facility regularly, the answer would probably right now, be a no" but you don't ask if it's worth the gamble to our finances. Is that not a reasonable question?

 

I also think that if it was a roaring success, Norrie would be shouting it from the rooftops. I would if I was him.

 

You say that the areas of priority are clearly aspirational but that promotion is only implied ingredient. It's not implied at all. Why is it not a stated priority?

 

I think I may be coming across as antagonistic towards the board. I'm not. I only have a belief that we should look for hard evidence of the improvements we're told are happening. As I said in a previous post, it's probably too soon to judge. That's why I wish Norrie would tone it down and keep it simple. He may be setting himself up for a fall.

 

Certainly there seems to be a greater confidence about the fans and there is a feeling that the club as a whole are more dynamic. I hope this confidence is not built on sand.

 

 

I hope everything Norrie and the board do is a great success. The club's future may depend on it.

 

 

 

 

To quote an oft-used phrase regarding people expressing views on the politics of the club, i ultimately see the benefits on the pitch, first and foremost that we are a top-three and no longer a bottom-three side. Given that Norrie has spent a chunk of his 18 months getting to grips with a completely new environment, i'm open to a lot of the ideas that are in sync with how things have taken shape so far.

 

The fact that a great many of these fly directly in the face of what ALL Clyde supporters were told, over a number of years, has absolutely no bearing on this. 

 

This comes at a time after the club endured the most horrific period in its history, and in supposedly attempting to rectify the reasons for this, matters surrounding the ground, relations with various organisations and numerous events were staunchly reported  from one perspective only. It appears that this perspective is still very much ringing in the ears of a number of supporters, despite clearly improved amenities and matchday functionability at the stadium - the very stadium that was going to kill us.  

 

I don't think you're showing antagonism to the Board, Haufdaft, i think it's to one man only. 

Edited by Officer Barbrady

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i ultimately see the benefits on the pitch, first and foremost that we are a top-three and no longer a bottom-three side.


Are the benefits really there to see on the pitch? Third place, well below the top two? Out of any league challenge by the half way point? Knocked out the Scottish cup by Cowdenbeath. Would you have taken that pre-season?


I don't think you're showing antagonism to the Board, Haufdaft, i think it's to one man only. 


If I appear to be showing antagonism to Norrie then I apologise. It's not my intention. As I said, I just want hard evidence, not verbage.

These initiatives are not without risk. We shouldn't forget that. Should we just follow blindly?

Norrie may have my emotional support. He doesn't have my logical support...yet!

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10 hours ago, haufdaft said:


 

 


Are the benefits really there to see on the pitch? Third place, well below the top two? Out of any league challenge by the half way point? Knocked out the Scottish cup by Cowdenbeath. Would you have taken that pre-season?



If I appear to be showing antagonism to Norrie then I apologise. It's not my intention. As I said, I just want hard evidence, not verbage.

These initiatives are not without risk. We shouldn't forget that. Should we just follow blindly?

Norrie may have my emotional support. He doesn't have my logical support...yet!
 

 

Everything in life worthwhile is not without risk. 

 

No one is following any club doctrine blindly, Haufdaft. At least, not any longer, thankfully. Norrie's engagement, with groups (the Glasgow Branch being one) and on an individual basis, is open to discussion if one is capable of it. If you personally found your "trust" broken by "previous incumbents", i'd have to ask how this exactly was the case? Did you question the previous administration on anything relevant? Did you receive answers which were later found to be impractical or without substance? I find it hard to believe that simply a football team's results can leave a grown man's trust in tatters - there must have been something else, surely, to evoke this devastating effect on a human being. 

 

Or did you just leave these matters to those in the know to sort them out? 

 

If so, you're hardly providing a consistent backdrop with what i concede is an entirely relevant and reasonable set of curiosities around our current Chairman's communication, it just really is just a terrific shame that this magnifying glass was not in use when the club faced down seven years of absolute chaos and destruction, without question or recourse on how to drive the club away from it's allegedly impending doom. 

 

Without the trolling, and public discrediting of criticism in past instances, this very argument would be on shaky ground under "previous incumbents", as anybody who offered a dissident opinion was readily denounced as uneducated and carrying an agenda by our apparently trustworthy Commissariat. This type of rigid, unquestioning  adherence to the narrative is something only found in cults, not in reasonable and logical discourse. 

 

By all means, if you believe in what you say for the good of the club's welfare and prospects, share it, even canvas opinion of others if it's such a concern. But that doesn't change the glaring fact none of this was deemed necessary by you in particular, and the wider support at large, under the "previous incumbents" despite a far worse position on all fronts, and those who did received the equivalent of public stoning to death for voicing THEIR concerns. 

 

We never had it so good, back then!

Edited by Officer Barbrady

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I don’t think you can count us out of a league challenge yet. We are 8 points off the top and 11 ahead of 4th place. We still have to play the top 2 sides again home and away. We are under pressure and playing catch up but still hanging in there.

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Not sure we’re out of the league yet either- Peterhead had a poor finish last season and although they do look very strong- Edinburgh as proved away to Berwick and at home to us- are not infallible-

Foundations  are being laid for the Club to progress- can’t be done overnight after such a long period of austerity. 

Whether the NY message was overly verbose or not- there is much to take confidence from and the criticism of our chairman “ preening” is a grossly unjust observation.

 

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1 hour ago, HughieMc said:

Not sure we’re out of the league yet either- Peterhead had a poor finish last season and although they do look very strong- Edinburgh as proved away to Berwick and at home to us- are not infallible-

Foundations  are being laid for the Club to progress- can’t be done overnight after such a long period of austerity. 

Whether the NY message was overly verbose or not- there is much to take confidence from and the criticism of our chairman “ preening” is a grossly unjust observation.

 

We won our last 6 games in the league and finished with 9 wins in our last 11 games.  One result costs us the league and that was defeat at Montrose 3-2 when we had twice been in front.  I would happily take a repeat of our performance at the end of last season (ignoring the play-offs!!!)

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14 hours ago, SLClyde said:

Out of interest, I’ve never heard about the massive bank loan before. When was this taken out and any idea how much it was? 

I am mildly surprised any bank would see us as a good bet for repaying a loan given the history of the past 15 years. Assuming they did I am mildly concerned that failure to get promoted will leave us in debt again.

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just an obvious point but if the arrias lounge wasn't in the middle of nowhere where fans mostly drive to it would probably be busier 

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The statement should have started by saying the aim is to be a competitive Championship side with higher ambitions on a sustainable basis, and here's what it's going to take....

He inherited an absolute shambles of a club driven into the dirt for years, so is describing a longer term rebuild across the board.

Identifying Cumbernauld and the surrounding area as key, he's nailed the colours to the mast committing our future there.  Tied to this is the improved relationship with NLC & NLL which was always going to be the case.   The rugby money has underwritten NLL's concerns, organisations are just people who come and go, new people have no baggage with each other.  It's reversed the original argument as to why we had to leave on the basis we couldn't make any money out the stadium.  But it's still just a starting point.

The only realistic way of building the fanbase is from the local area, similarly in terms of additional revenue streams from local businesses, so he has to put the club at the heart of the community.  A big task, especially when previously the club were very vocal in appearing desperate to leave while taking shots at the very people they're now trying to engage with,  so he'll need to put clear blue water between the club now and the previous regime.

There's then the club itself.  On the footballing side a full time manager to oversee all aspects of the operation, and again based on the idea of sustainability, an appropriate youth policy so the manager can bring through the style of player he wants.

As for the structure, does the existing CiC model best fit the purpose, or should it be customized, or replaced entirely?  At least he recognises the need to have the existing fanbase on board, so puts proposals out there to gauge reaction.

Initiatives like Club 200 in themselves don't represent a business model, going back to the same well year after year, but at least if there's progression elsewhere  it gives people something to buy into, even if a short term stop gap.    

There's also an inference that 1 or 2 people may be brought in to help shoulder some of his responsibilities as areas of his own business have been neglected.  Linked to that, while there's an appreciation for volunteers, expertise is probably needed moving forward.

In the main I agree with what he's outlining, but talk's talk and credibility is based on actions.  Due to the past couple of decades, understandably we've a sceptical fanbase, so each year he'll need to progress what he's describing to convince people.  But it's a much needed 360 turnaround in mentality from where we were 3 or 4 years ago.  

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The statement should have started by saying the aim is to be a competitive Championship side with higher ambitions on a sustainable basis, and here's what it's going to take....

He inherited an absolute shambles of a club driven into the dirt for years, so is describing a longer term rebuild across the board.

Identifying Cumbernauld and the surrounding area as key, he's nailed the colours to the mast committing our future there.  Tied to this is the improved relationship with NLC & NLL which was always going to be the case.   The rugby money has underwritten NLL's concerns, organisations are just people who come and go, new people have no baggage with each other.  It's reversed the original argument as to why we had to leave on the basis we couldn't make any money out the stadium.  But it's still just a starting point.

The only realistic way of building the fanbase is from the local area, similarly in terms of additional revenue streams from local businesses, so he has to put the club at the heart of the community.  A big task, especially when previously the club were very vocal in appearing desperate to leave while taking shots at the very people they're now trying to engage with,  so he'll need to put clear blue water between the club now and the previous regime.

There's then the club itself.  On the footballing side a full time manager to oversee all aspects of the operation, and again based on the idea of sustainability, an appropriate youth policy so the manager can bring through the style of player he wants.

As for the structure, does the existing CiC model best fit the purpose, or should it be customized, or replaced entirely?  At least he recognises the need to have the existing fanbase on board, so puts proposals out there to gauge reaction.

Initiatives like Club 200 in themselves don't represent a business model, going back to the same well year after year, but at least if there's progression elsewhere  it gives people something to buy into, even if a short term stop gap.    

There's also an inference that 1 or 2 people may be brought in to help shoulder some of his responsibilities as areas of his own business have been neglected.  Linked to that, while there's an appreciation for volunteers, expertise is probably needed moving forward.

In the main I agree with what he's outlining, but talk's talk and credibility is based on actions.  Due to the past couple of decades, understandably we've a sceptical fanbase, so each year he'll need to progress what he's describing to convince people.  But it's a much needed 360 turnaround in mentality from where we were 3 or 4 years ago.  

Spot on

 

Can only add there has been clear improvements since innes took the reigns as chairman for years people harked on about

A place at the stadium to have pre match drink or tea refreshments etc =Arria going by reports it's busy before games plus it host all our club functions meaning any profit straight into our coffers. Looking around the support ( and my two grown up sons ) the merchandise is selling well again complaints for years over over strips that bore no resemblance to a Clyde strip and of very poor quality Finally and more important for me the existing fan base has bought into it 200 club The Glasgow branch sponsoring games / match ball players strips and the whole Santa theme players over at the end was fan engagement at its best I agree this isn't a business model but it's very important as to where the club is just now. It's clear from the message innes sees this as just the start and that he simply can't do it all himself which it looks like the case so far.

 

On pitch things have clearly improved although wasn't a good summer in terms of signings for the manager but we are still up near the top ( I will give him another couple of month )

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, BrigtonClyde said:

The statement should have started by saying the aim is to be a competitive Championship side with higher ambitions on a sustainable basis, and here's what it's going to take....

He inherited an absolute shambles of a club driven into the dirt for years, so is describing a longer term rebuild across the board.

Identifying Cumbernauld and the surrounding area as key, he's nailed the colours to the mast committing our future there.  Tied to this is the improved relationship with NLC & NLL which was always going to be the case.   The rugby money has underwritten NLL's concerns, organisations are just people who come and go, new people have no baggage with each other.  It's reversed the original argument as to why we had to leave on the basis we couldn't make any money out the stadium.  But it's still just a starting point.

The only realistic way of building the fanbase is from the local area, similarly in terms of additional revenue streams from local businesses, so he has to put the club at the heart of the community.  A big task, especially when previously the club were very vocal in appearing desperate to leave while taking shots at the very people they're now trying to engage with,  so he'll need to put clear blue water between the club now and the previous regime.

There's then the club itself.  On the footballing side a full time manager to oversee all aspects of the operation, and again based on the idea of sustainability, an appropriate youth policy so the manager can bring through the style of player he wants.

As for the structure, does the existing CiC model best fit the purpose, or should it be customized, or replaced entirely?  At least he recognises the need to have the existing fanbase on board, so puts proposals out there to gauge reaction.

Initiatives like Club 200 in themselves don't represent a business model, going back to the same well year after year, but at least if there's progression elsewhere  it gives people something to buy into, even if a short term stop gap.    

There's also an inference that 1 or 2 people may be brought in to help shoulder some of his responsibilities as areas of his own business have been neglected.  Linked to that, while there's an appreciation for volunteers, expertise is probably needed moving forward.

In the main I agree with what he's outlining, but talk's talk and credibility is based on actions.  Due to the past couple of decades, understandably we've a sceptical fanbase, so each year he'll need to progress what he's describing to convince people.  But it's a much needed 360 turnaround in mentality from where we were 3 or 4 years ago.  

What he said......

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1 hour ago, SouthLanarkshireWhite said:

I am mildly surprised any bank would see us as a good bet for repaying a loan given the history of the past 15 years. Assuming they did I am mildly concerned that failure to get promoted will leave us in debt again.

Two concerns:

1. Taking out a bank loan to fund the playing squad isn't something we should be taking lightly,  especially on the back of a £60k loss. It does seem like we have gambled heavily on promotion and takes some gloss off what we have been told is increased revenue streams allowing us to challenge at the right end of the league.

2. In the news article of July 31st it was mentioned that Norrie Innes's company had been granted planning permission for a cafe and restaurant at Broadwood. I am uncomfortable about a serving Director benefiting financially from the club remaining at Broadwood which would undoubtedly be the case if this was to go ahead. I seriously hope he rethinks this. The proposed plans are on NLCs website. ETA: I don't think there is anything underhand going on here but I think it's unwise and creates the conditions for judgements to be clouded by other factors than what is the right decision for the club. He has my backing in what he is trying to do but this project is a mistake in my opinion.

Edited by Fat Sally

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On the subject of the loan; it was raised and discussed at length the recent AGM. I am not a financial person in any way shape or form but my understanding from the discussion was that the loan was non secured and in fact a couple of contributors from the floor, who seemed to have a financial or business background were actually congratulating the board for being able to acquire such a loan from the bank. It appears that such loans with the terms agreed are not easy to acquire nowadays and was seen as a good business decision.

David D.. as ever, seems to have all the finances planned and in control. He is someone who I trust given his previous great work for the board / club.

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33 minutes ago, Fat Sally said:

Two concerns:

1. Taking out a bank loan to fund the playing squad isn't something we should be taking lightly,  especially on the back of a £60k loss. It does seem like we have gambled heavily on promotion and takes some gloss off what we have been told is increased revenue streams allowing us to challenge at the right end of the league.

 

I don't know about the bank loan, but the bit I don't understand is there's an inference it's specifically to get us out this league in order that we get "moneyspinning" fixtures against the likes of Stranraer, Brechin, Forfar, Montrose, Dumbarton etc etc next year??

Or is it offset by money received for getting promoted ?  I don't follow the logic in why there appears to be such financial importance placed on getting into League 1, though obviously it's preferred as part of  progression upwards. 

Can anyone suggest the additional financial benefits - I genuinely don't know ?

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10 minutes ago, BrigtonClyde said:

I don't know about the bank loan, but the bit I don't understand is there's an inference it's specifically to get us out this league in order that we get "moneyspinning" fixtures against the likes of Stranraer, Brechin, Forfar, Montrose, Dumbarton etc etc next year??

Or is it offset by money received for getting promoted ?  I don't follow the logic in why there appears to be such financial importance placed on getting into League 1, though obviously it's preferred as part of  progression upwards. 

Can anyone suggest the additional financial benefits - I genuinely don't know ?

The figures mentioned, along with what are clearly longer-term plans, i'd think are NOT centred on facing the glamour opposition you describe, but obtaining those fixtures being a means of the club setting about attaining where Norrie stated where he wishes the club to be, at the AGM, and that is in the second tier. Making us competitive for when we land in L1 is obviously something which is imperative in these projections. It's not quite in Alex Smith's 'five year plan' category, but arranging financial commitments within a reasonable timeframe isn't overly concerning, in my opinion, as Freddy Frye has already outlined. If we were to fail like we did under Smith in this, of course that would be different but it wouldn't change the fact that if the Chairman sees these opportunities, despite how it was run into the ground, and in a short timeframe has turned several outlets around, it's a perfectly reasonable avenue to go down. 

 

I'm not even sure if there is any actual money in the Championship, either, with the exception of increased travelling supports, but even at that, they're not as great as they used to be. Certainly nothing to base a business model on. Even so, if we were to get there, and stay competitive, having followed these projections and grown the club to such a position it is attractive for fans,  players, sponsors and restores our reputation, and does so carrying fully manageabe debt utilities, the success in getting there would still be clouded by people's paranoid bullshit, by still listening to, and endorsing, the "previous incumbents" agendas, even with the evidence staring them in the face. 

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1 hour ago, Officer Barbrady said:

The figures mentioned, along with what are clearly longer-term plans, i'd think are NOT centred on facing the glamour opposition you describe, but obtaining those fixtures being a means of the club setting about attaining where Norrie stated where he wishes the club to be, at the AGM, and that is in the second tier. Making us competitive for when we land in L1 is obviously something which is imperative in these projections. It's not quite in Alex Smith's 'five year plan' category, but arranging financial commitments within a reasonable timeframe isn't overly concerning, in my opinion, as Freddy Frye has already outlined. If we were to fail like we did under Smith in this, of course that would be different but it wouldn't change the fact that if the Chairman sees these opportunities, despite how it was run into the ground, and in a short timeframe has turned several outlets around, it's a perfectly reasonable avenue to go down. 

 

I'm not even sure if there is any actual money in the Championship, either, with the exception of increased travelling supports, but even at that, they're not as great as they used to be. Certainly nothing to base a business model on. Even so, if we were to get there, and stay competitive, having followed these projections and grown the club to such a position it is attractive for fans,  players, sponsors and restores our reputation, and does so carrying fully manageabe debt utilities, the success in getting there would still be clouded by people's paranoid bullshit, by still listening to, and endorsing, the "previous incumbents" agendas, even with the evidence staring them in the face. 

I understand what you're saying, so it puts to bed the idea that we absolutely must get promoted this season for specifically financial benefits next season.

Also agree with what you're saying about a financial model based on larger travelling support.  It obviously helps, but you have to take care of your own business which again relates back to building in and sourcing that from the local community.  Clearly that's helped with a better standard, but can also be done if the longer term aims are presented.  Another reason that if / when we reach the second tier, far better the infrastructure is strengthened beforehand to make that sustainable as opposed to being a one season wonder.   The bottom league's a hard sell and while the one above isn't much better, it's one step away from a credible level.

His theory's sound enough but clearly a lot of work to do given what was inherited.  If the theory is turned into action at a steady rate year on year, it's far likelier to deliver a much stronger position in the medium to longer term.  People won't be slow to recognise a club that's finally getting its act together.  

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27 minutes ago, BrigtonClyde said:

I understand what you're saying, so it puts to bed the idea that we absolutely must get promoted this season for specifically financial benefits next season.

Also agree with what you're saying about a financial model based on larger travelling support.  It obviously helps, but you have to take care of your own business which again relates back to building in and sourcing that from the local community.  Clearly that's helped with a better standard, but can also be done if the longer term aims are presented.  Another reason that if / when we reach the second tier, far better the infrastructure is strengthened beforehand to make that sustainable as opposed to being a one season wonder.   The bottom league's a hard sell and while the one above isn't much better, it's one step away from a credible level.

His theory's sound enough but clearly a lot of work to do given what was inherited.  If the theory is turned into action at a steady rate year on year, it's far likelier to deliver a much stronger position in the medium to longer term.  People won't be slow to recognise a club that's finally getting its act together.  

This, this, exactly this Brigton. 

 

On footballing matters, we certainly look ready and able to make the first step up this year. Even if we were to wait a year for that, we appear a more attractive option than before, but in getting to L1, i believe we'd be in a stronger position to exert our rightful authority on the coastal/Angus clubs by being able to recruit better quality - and that's where the infrastructure pays dividends. 

 

It's no secret that getting to this point has taken a significant effort, as he outlines several times. But that's a basic, 101 for all clubs. Dundee Utd, Thistle, Falkirk and Raith took the eye off the ball for maybe no more than a couple of months or two or three bad decisions, and look at the complete mess they're all in. Hibs too not that long ago, and even Killie for a while until Johnson buggered off (spot the common link there!). The fact that everything, absolutely everything has always been a struggle for us, could be a major bonus in remaining focused to delivering what Norrie sees as a realistic outcome. 

Edited by Officer Barbrady

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I am not sure I can be bothered with a long and rambling debate on this as frankly I doubt anyone outside the Board has the full and complete answer, so one extended question on it just in case there is sufficient public awareness.

Good, if surprising news , that the club was able to get a bank to provide an unsecured loan.

Question - what is the loan income being used for, and if we do not get promotion within 18 months will we be able to repay it? 

If the answer to the second part is yes, then will it likely be at  the expense of the more expensive type of player we see with the qualities of Rankin and Goodwillie for example?

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