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The Clyde FC 2018-19 Thread

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1 hour ago, cfcuk said:
1 hour ago, Fat Sally said:
I have no problem with volunteers getting into games for free. Football as a whole in Scotland requires volunteers to survive and quite honestly takes advantage of people doing jobs that they really should be paying them for. By all means insist on these people paying in but you need to then compensate them fairly for services rendered.
Quite simply the club could not operate at the level it does it and offer the service it does without volunteers. Let's not ask them to give up what can be quite a considerable amount of time and energy then force them to pay a season ticket. Entirely false economy.

So basically you are saying they are volunteering to get into games for nothing and if they don't they will chuck it , interesting theory

Undoubtedly there will be some for which that is their motivation.

People volunteer for different reasons but football relies on volunteers giving their time and energy and gives very little in return. Some people put in the equivalent of a part time job into keeping clubs going and the cost of a free season ticket wouldn't even come close to reimbursing them financially. It's a gesture of thanks and if a club really needs to take money off these people to pay players then I'd suggest that something is wrong with the business model.

Why should football players be the only people who get paid at football clubs?

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4 hours ago, Fat Sally said:

Undoubtedly there will be some for which that is their motivation.

People volunteer for different reasons but football relies on volunteers giving their time and energy and gives very little in return. Some people put in the equivalent of a part time job into keeping clubs going and the cost of a free season ticket wouldn't even come close to reimbursing them financially. It's a gesture of thanks and if a club really needs to take money off these people to pay players then I'd suggest that something is wrong with the business model.

Why should football players be the only people who get paid at football clubs?

Absolutely Sally- why should players be the only ones to be paid- sorry and GM’s of course. They shouldn’t quite honestly and the business model is easily explained as being realistic due to the low attendance and therefore low revenue versus costs. So, whilst a side capable of promotion is put together which will attract bigger crowds it is hoped, the ability to pay people to carry out the jobs which need doing is not possible.... like most Clubs.

Of course Directors, in my view should not be paid, but should a windfall ever arrive, loans they have given should be repaid, and perhaps certain volunteer roles at a Club could become more accountable paid roles. But whilst every penny is required at the moment as we speculate to accumulate, as almost every business has to at some stage in its growth...... how fantastic is it to hear from Adolfo that both he and his other half- in addition to filling several volunteer roles at the club they love, also both buy ST’s.  I think that is quite amazing. It’s of course down to a personal decision, as it is for others I personally know who have ST’s but still choose to pay in on the day....and others who buy ST’s in the full knowledge they will attend only a few games in the season. Tremendous commitment is everywhere. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who gives personal free time to the Club is very useful to our growth and our progression- but if they love the Club and ask themselves were they not volunteering would they be attending- if the answer is yes- like Adolfo and his partner- then maybe they should consider again, whether it would be right to pay or not.

Despite  all I’ve just said- I would doubt the sole motivation for any volunteer, from ballboy or ballgirl to matchday volunteers and other volunteers including Board members - is to get in for nothing.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Fat Sally said:

Undoubtedly there will be some for which that is their motivation.

People volunteer for different reasons but football relies on volunteers giving their time and energy and gives very little in return. Some people put in the equivalent of a part time job into keeping clubs going and the cost of a free season ticket wouldn't even come close to reimbursing them financially. It's a gesture of thanks and if a club really needs to take money off these people to pay players then I'd suggest that something is wrong with the business model.

Why should football players be the only people who get paid at football clubs?

I personally wouldn't ever step so far to the left, to accuse any volunteer of seeking to gain admission just for turning up. All roles, whether or not they are carried out to extreme success through raising further revenue or merely to get a weekly or monthly task over the line, come with a great responsibility that i'm absolutely certain is borne direct from a core belief in the product, and to aim to firstly keep the club on the correct path, fiscally and then financially being the apparent order, but even this could realistically only ever be executed to any serious degree by individuals with a love for the football team at its centre.

 

I do hope, Fat Sally, that i haven't opened a can of worms regarding any ill-feeling among some volunteers that others may be swinging the lead simply for a free peek at our growing external operation fronted by our superbly developing young football team? I may have taken the tin opener out of the drawer, but your opening sentence hints at a resentment i'd never have considered existing, to be completely honest.

 

What i had thought, and fleetingly believed to be  true in the past, was that the product being so utterly shite without peer in the entire league, was a much harder watch for those of us with an attatchment to the club far beyond 2 hours a week, than it may be for motivated individuals with very few scruples and a keenness for climbing ladders, who in turn may have been welcomed into the fold and given a directive to act as a supportive 'buffer' to the board from criticism of all things from the shite team to the flawed (at best) business model (more to follow in a minute on that!), whilst carrying out tasks which would then be played back to supporters as not having presented those skill sets when the club required them. Thus, supporting the football team and the business model (!!) became mutually inclusive and inseperable ideals, and only people supportive of the latter were ever considered relevant in matters relating to the former.

 

This of course was only ever my opinion, but having witnessed the club, right from the top, through the middle and eventually on the pitch fail its collective 'Duck Test' spectacularly, culminating in a stolen draw at Montrose keeping us in the leagues, i certainly feel it a bit rich if noses are out of joint about the type of individuals who were introduced to the club by proponents of the volunteer-based model in the first place to plug a 'skills shortage' (there never, ever was...) now seeking recompense by saving £14, after likely petrol and food not to mention loss of personal time if they genuinely did not/do not give a f**k about the team, as you suggest they may not, it would appear that the whole thing was, is, and always will be the equivalent of a bloody Ponzi scheme in reverse. 

 

I often wonder if T. S. Elliot had Clyde in mind when penning the phrase, "This is how the world shall end, not with a bang; but a whimper". 

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I have no idea what the above means. Strange post.

I am not criticising Clyde for using volunteers. It is a symptom of a broken football industry. It's an industry which takes advantage of free labour in a similar way that charities do, except with one key difference in that football clubs are not charities. Even the largest clubs, FIFA and UEFA employ people as volunteers while paying players huge wages.

As I said, people have different motivations for doing roles at football clubs. For some it will be a love of the club, others it will be ego, or to be involved in the game, CV building, to pursue a dream, free entry or simply just for something to do. I don't really care about their motivations so long as they do a good job. Our current Chairman and Financial Director did not take up their roles at the time because they were Clyde fans so it's wrong to assume that a love of the club is what motivates every person. Everyone is different.

Volunteers are treated like employees because the law requires them to. They are subject to the same HR procedures and are just as accountable as paid staff. The wages someone is paid or not paid does not affect their ability to do a job or who they report to and no one should ever be hired for a volunteer role on anything other than their ability to do the role. A volunteer steward for example must abide by the same regulations as G4S.

These volunteers are the lifeblood of the game, and without them then it would cease to exist. There is nothing wrong with club's offering a free season ticket in return for the work that people do and there is nothing wrong with that person accepting the offer.

St Andrews Ambulance staff on a matchday are all volunteers. Are those suggesting that football clubs start requesting that these people pay to get in? Should ball boys pay to get in at clubs where Under 12s don't go free? How about matchday volunteers that might only see 20 mins of a game because of their duties?

It's ridiculous and quite frankly embarrassing that some people should turn their attention to volunteers who might be getting rewarded with free entry.

It's a simple choice for football clubs. Either pay a fair wage for services rendered or offer a gesture of free entry in exchange. If people don't want to take up the free entry and want to pay their way in because their financial situation allows them to then that's their choice.

I'm much more open to the idea that we should get rid of comp tickets for player's families but the argument against that is we pay such low wages, if allowing a player's family to come and watch makes the player more comfortable and therefore play better then who really loses?

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2 hours ago, Fat Sally said:

I have no idea what the above means. Strange post.

Of course you don't!!

 

2 hours ago, Fat Sally said:

It's an industry which takes advantage of free labour in a similar way that charities do, except with one key difference in that football clubs are not charities.

How long has it taken for this to sink in?

 

Is it that we are NOT a charity and never, ever were? No charity is stupid enough to advertise that it  insists on charging its most loyal "donators" £200-£450 just to sustain its 'business model', and not bothering to compete in its specific market, far less declaring war on those "donators" who step out of line by questioning the purpose of the club's decade of nihilistic chivalry. 

 

Is it from watching the competitive team on the park, which we have as a result of a very different recruitment process from the one just three years ago where the club was plainly being used by complete charlatans to further their coaching and PR careers through individuals brought to the club via the fabled Clyde foundation (sic deliberately), and who nearly pissed us up the wall under The Manager Who Could Not Be Sacked? 

 

Or is it the realisation now that it never had to be that way? 

2 hours ago, Fat Sally said:

Our current Chairman and Financial Director did not take up their roles at the time because they were Clyde fans so it's wrong to assume that a love of the club is what motivates every person. Everyone is different.

Very fair comment, i concede. Both however, possess an individual skill set greater than the rest of the board combined, a fact i'm sure was behind their acquisitions. And i'm throwing no shade at the others in expressing this view.

 

Norrie's early wording was very Glasgowcentric, his line of business completely in sync with the view his predecessor described his vision for the club and still does on the SD page, of the club "based in a community in which it is relevant", and very clearly with one eye cast on placing roots in the city and relocating. I think the last fifteen months supercede the first four of Norrie's tenure in firmly simple terms, we're clearly in no hurry to leave and without the sideshow of any uncertainty of where the club thinks it wants to be (which suited an agenda previously and NOTHING ELSE), it appears to be slowly getting its act together in a community where it may yet again be "relevant". 

2 hours ago, Fat Sally said:

St Andrews Ambulance staff on a matchday are all volunteers. Are those suggesting that football clubs start requesting that these people pay to get in? Should ball boys pay to get in at clubs where Under 12s don't go free? How about matchday volunteers that might only see 20 mins of a game because of their duties?

Now that's just bloody stupid. 

 

Part II

2 hours ago, Fat Sally said:

It's a simple choice for football clubs. Either pay a fair wage for services rendered or offer a gesture of free entry in exchange. If people don't want to take up the free entry and want to pay their way in because their financial situation allows them to then that's their choice.

But it isn't a choice, is it? Not according to your opening paragraph. If its so endemic in the game, and without a volunteer structure it will cease to exist, then it seems to be that the only logical outcome would be for everyone in the country who patronises the sport to become one in some way or another. Just do away altogether with the great evil, that is hard currency. Volunteer staff, volunteer security, volunteer players, managers, coaching staffs and volunteer match officials, the  whole lot. Everyone gets in for the same, and gets the same from it. The players, well, they get the privelege of entertaining us. And be thankful, too. 

 

It's a policy that's worked wonders for world peace since 1917, wouldn't you agree Sally? 

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28 minutes ago, Officer Barbrady said:

Of course you don't!!

 

How long has it taken for this to sink in?

 

Is it that we are NOT a charity and never, ever were? No charity is stupid enough to advertise that it  insists on charging its most loyal "donators" £200-£450 just to sustain its 'business model', and not bothering to compete in its specific market, far less declaring war on those "donators" who step out of line by questioning the purpose of the club's decade of nihilistic chivalry. 

 

Is it from watching the competitive team on the park, which we have as a result of a very different recruitment process from the one just three years ago where the club was plainly being used by complete charlatans to further their coaching and PR careers through individuals brought to the club via the fabled Clyde foundation (sic deliberately), and who nearly pissed us up the wall under The Manager Who Could Not Be Sacked? 

 

Or is it the realisation now that it never had to be that way? 

Very fair comment, i concede. Both however, possess an individual skill set greater than the rest of the board combined, a fact i'm sure was behind their acquisitions. And i'm throwing no shade at the others in expressing this view.

 

Norrie's early wording was very Glasgowcentric, his line of business completely in sync with the view his predecessor described his vision for the club and still does on the SD page, of the club "based in a community in which it is relevant", and very clearly with one eye cast on placing roots in the city and relocating. I think the last fifteen months supercede the first four of Norrie's tenure in firmly simple terms, we're clearly in no hurry to leave and without the sideshow of any uncertainty of where the club thinks it wants to be (which suited an agenda previously and NOTHING ELSE), it appears to be slowly getting its act together in a community where it may yet again be "relevant". 

Now that's just bloody stupid. 

 

Part II

But it isn't a choice, is it? Not according to your opening paragraph. If its so endemic in the game, and without a volunteer structure it will cease to exist, then it seems to be that the only logical outcome would be for everyone in the country who patronises the sport to become one in some way or another. Just do away altogether with the great evil, that is hard currency. Volunteer staff, volunteer security, volunteer players, managers, coaching staffs and volunteer match officials, the  whole lot. Everyone gets in for the same, and gets the same from it. The players, well, they get the privelege of entertaining us. And be thankful, too. 

 

It's a policy that's worked wonders for world peace since 1917, wouldn't you agree Sally? 

Again, a bewildering and rambling post that fails to address the point that I am making which is that volunteers should not come on forums and basically be called freeloaders because they get a free match ticket. I've done graphic design work for junior clubs local to me in the past and been offered match tickets (and sometimes even a pie) in return which I did accept on occasions. The work I did would have cost the clubs in questions a lot more than a match ticket. If that's freeloading in your opinion then call me what you want, but I view it as a gesture of thanks for services rendered which otherwise would have cost a great deal.

People make their own decisions and live with them. If we all pull together and respect and understand each other's tasks and challenges, we have more than a fighting chance. 

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1 minute ago, Fat Sally said:

Again, a bewildering and rambling post that fails to address the point that I am making which is that volunteers should not come on forums and basically be called freeloaders because they get a free match ticket. I've done graphic design work for junior clubs local to me in the past and been offered match tickets (and sometimes even a pie) in return which I did accept on occasions. The work I did would have cost the clubs in questions a lot more than a match ticket. If that's freeloading in your opinion then call me what you want, but I view it as a gesture of thanks for services rendered which otherwise would have cost a great deal.

People make their own decisions and live with them. If we all pull together and respect and understand each other's tasks and challenges, we have more than a fighting chance. 

No one posting on here has been called anything of the sort, Sally. That's just a complete lie. It has come up in the general discussion, and the only current volunteer to comment on it has, in my view, agreed with the principle that supporting the initiative should be exactly that, and demonstrated this by his actions. And rightly has been praised not just for that, but for his honesty and transparency in giving his viewpoint. 

 

You're the person using pejoratives, Sally. Freeloading seems to be the one sticking in your throat, for reasons unknown. You outline various instances of why one would volunteer in the first place, as if they are all mutually honourable reasons, just because it is done for free. How you can't see that exploitation can easily (and in my opinion, DOES) go both ways on this is a mystery, particularly when it comes to the outrage displayed when non-volunteers seeking to gain an insight or raise any related issue turns into a battlefield. You seem perfectly capable of understanding whenever that situation arises, and leave no doubt as to who deserves your recognition regardless of their reason for lending their hand to the cause you support so strongly. 

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Interesting username ! Are you suspecting abshok is not a Clyde fan ?


It’s my business name. For the record, massive Clyde fan. Since the days of Eddie Annand.

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This should meet your ownership requirements Abshok without the club's laundry being aired in public. 
 
You're welcome, in advance. 
Screenshot_20190204-122058.thumb.jpg.8604eaae6f659840dbef70ea499d2ad7.jpg
Screenshot_20190204-121033.thumb.jpg.07414b18526fa7480922ae6169f502e5.jpg
Screenshot_20190204-121046.thumb.jpg.b98c7bf39fa49b30e7140f87ca08c657.jpg


The Bully Wee’s financial department doesn’t accept Australian Bank details for that £40 payment. IBAN numbers etc to exchange foreign currency on £40 doesn’t work for me.

So I’ll just contribute via match ball sponsorship payments (even though they can’t get my business name correct) lol, lottery purchases, and other fund raising incentives I can manage to make up for not being a member.

Just interested in the financial topics considering how we’ve been in the past.IMG_4914.jpg

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3 hours ago, Abshok said:

 


The Bully Wee’s financial department doesn’t accept Australian Bank details for that £40 payment. IBAN numbers etc to exchange foreign currency on £40 doesn’t work for me.

So I’ll just contribute via match ball sponsorship payments (even though they can’t get my business name correct) lol, lottery purchases, and other fund raising incentives I can manage to make up for not being a member.

Just interested in the financial topics considering how we’ve been in the past.IMG_4914.jpg

 

Have you emailed the club? I think it can be done via bank transfer aslong as they have your details. 

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3 hours ago, Abshok said:

 


The Bully Wee’s financial department doesn’t accept Australian Bank details for that £40 payment. IBAN numbers etc to exchange foreign currency on £40 doesn’t work for me.

 

Just out of interest, did your bank tell you they needed a routing number to transfer the money, was that the problem ?  It can happen for some overseas banks.  I don't know who Clyde bank with, but whoever it is would be able to tell them the relevant routing number, or even the SWIFT code.  IBAN's should work in the majority of cases.  If it's RBS, I know what all the codes are.  There's two routing numbers depending on whether they're sending via JP Morgan or Standard Chartered.  Or did you mean the charge your own bank applies to send an international payment is a bit severe ?

If Clyde use Paypal, that's an option.  If you're sending relatively small amounts over like £40 via PP, mark it as a gift.  That way they don't deduct their customary %....    

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5 hours ago, Abshok said:

 


The Bully Wee’s financial department doesn’t accept Australian Bank details for that £40 payment. IBAN numbers etc to exchange foreign currency on £40 doesn’t work for me.

So I’ll just contribute via match ball sponsorship payments (even though they can’t get my business name correct) lol, lottery purchases, and other fund raising incentives I can manage to make up for not being a member.

Just interested in the financial topics considering how we’ve been in the past.IMG_4914.jpg

 

I did notice the error.

 

Other responses have covered what i'd ask, as a sizable percentage (at least 10%) of members are overseas based including Oz.

 

And i'd have thought when sponsoring match balls etc, usually some form of communication with the club GM takes place, i don't see why he wouldn't be of help in securing these for you. 

 

I'm sure you agree, if so concerned by our previous financial carryings-on, that this platform is not the place for what would be third-hand source material to be analysing them?

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Have you emailed the club? I think it can be done via bank transfer aslong as they have your details. 


In all honesty it was laziness. Tried to do it, thought it was gonna be a simple process and then had to overcome a lot more obstacles than expected. So therefore said “I’ll do it later” and never came around.

So now I just help out where I can which usually amounts more to the money that I’d give in ownership anyways.

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Just out of interest, did your bank tell you they needed a routing number to transfer the money, was that the problem ?  It can happen for some overseas banks.  I don't know who Clyde bank with, but whoever it is would be able to tell them the relevant routing number, or even the SWIFT code.  IBAN's should work in the majority of cases.  If it's RBS, I know what all the codes are.  There's two routing numbers depending on whether they're sending via JP Morgan or Standard Chartered.  Or did you mean the charge your own bank applies to send an international payment is a bit severe ?
If Clyde use Paypal, that's an option.  If you're sending relatively small amounts over like £40 via PP, mark it as a gift.  That way they don't deduct their customary %....    


Easy enough to do when buying the lottery from my end. But yeah the ownership just seems more of a challenge. I’ll sort it soon, it’s just laziness going through the process tbh ha.

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28 minutes ago, Abshok said:

 


In all honesty it was laziness. Tried to do it, thought it was gonna be a simple process and then had to overcome a lot more obstacles than expected. So therefore said “I’ll do it later” and never came around.

So now I just help out where I can which usually amounts more to the money that I’d give in ownership anyways.

 

I thought that myself, ie paying in more, initially. From what you have said, you're certainly supporting the club to a greater degree than a £40 subcharge. I'd say on the basis that you're obviously unable to attend games often, you're doing far more than some who pay this fee, albeit the club may see it that a service is being provided through the channels you currenty do use and the membership provides a very different one. 

 

Its a shame these obstacles exist. I'll readily admit to being a tad facetious in forwarding the post that i responded with, if only to protect quotes from our FD from becoming public tit-for-tat, but given your input and eagerness to assist where you can, it's clear you'd be a better addition than large swathes of the current membership are. 

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I thought that myself, ie paying in more, initially. From what you have said, you're certainly supporting the club to a greater degree than a £40 subcharge. I'd say on the basis that you're obviously unable to attend games often, you're doing far more than some who pay this fee, albeit the club may see it that a service is being provided through the channels you currenty do use and the membership provides a very different one. 
 
Its a shame these obstacles exist. I'll readily admit to being a tad facetious in forwarding the post that i responded with, if only to protect quotes from our FD from becoming public tit-for-tat, but given your input and eagerness to assist where you can, it's clear you'd be a better addition than large swathes of the current membership are. 


At the end of the day, anyone that’s willing to assist this club get back to where it belongs is what it’s down too. I see Scottish cup wins back in the day and to have this club down in the 4th tier of Scottish football is pish in my opinion.

Does anyone know if the club is considering a switch back to Full Time if certain targets are achieved?

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15 minutes ago, Abshok said:

 


At the end of the day, anyone that’s willing to assist this club get back to where it belongs is what it’s down too. I see Scottish cup wins back in the day and to have this club down in the 4th tier of Scottish football is pish in my opinion.

Does anyone know if the club is considering a switch back to Full Time if certain targets are achieved?

 

That's the spirit. 

 

It's been alluded to recently that tying the manager to a longer, fuller contract was a primary target, but full-time football altogether would still be some way off. Personally i don't think it's something which should be considered until we are numero uno part-time club in the country, and consistently. 

 

I look at Alloa and Dumbarton's recent forays into Tier 2, and wish Arbroath well in theirs, and while very admirable of them fighting the tide, i consider us a bigger club with more to offer than any of those. If given the platform to expand to FT, i'd think it would be a logical move upon consolidation, like in the MacDonald days, with perhaps small steps like a half/half mix initially. 

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Rearranged games  Tuesday  26th Feb    v  Stirling Albion 

                                              Tuesday  19th Mar   v Elgin

 

Hopefully Goodwillie will be available for both.

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We've done well for ourselves; three weeks between our rearranged games! 

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