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England's Glorious Failure


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11 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

See when folk say that England are massive underachievers...I presume it refers to the infrastructure and interest in the game? I can't think of an England squad in my lifetime who seemed like they were knocked out of a tournament before their time. I can, however, think of a couple that made it a bit further than they deserved.

They always seem to do about as well as the quality of their players merits, IMO.

Yeah, it's pretty much that they don't develop players as good as they should rather than the players they have not performing as well as they should. The first tournament I can properly remember is France 98; then and every tournament since they've had a solid, quarter final standard of squad, so from 98 to 06 they weren't underachieving relative to the standard of player, for all that at the time their media genuinely were absolute ridiculous and believed their squad was truly up there with the best. Of course, from their failure to qualify for 08 onwards they've had a few embarrassments.

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Going to work in England today is an absolute joy. Adding to the audible agonies of Tyldsley and Hoddle, the glorious telts from big Slav and that horrible hatchetman Keane, the "we never thought we could win it" volte-face from those with traces of red and white face-paint still visible is so easily mocked it's almost like kicking a puppy. That the "fans" (who I'll guarantee won't be tipping up to Bootham Crescent and the like in their droves) thought they'd got it nailed on after five minutes only for reality to gradually strangle their hopes over the next two hours only made it so, so much sweeter. I feel for my mates who were a bit more realistic (and actually know a bit about the game), but the popping of this particular balloon of hype was beautifully scripted. Thank You, Karma!

Mrs WRK isn't talking to me either, as I'm apparently a "horrible person for not supporting those brave lads". Don't care - the first un-sunny day here for a fortnight, but the world seems so much brighter.

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2 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

Genuinely feel for Southgate. Comes across like a good guy who knows fine well how ridiculous the media are. He did everything he could to manage the media and did it superbly until the quarters where they just couldn't help themselves and went into overdrive.

England are a painfully average side who were given a fortunate draw and did what they needed to take advantage up to the semis, but were then found out. Not much more to it than that.

I think England are a level above painfully average, to be fair.  Sweden I would say are precisely that.  Columbia too.  

I wouldn't say they were found out against Croatia, either. For an hour, England were the better side.  For the first half, they were comfortably the better side.  If they had gone in two or three up, nobody would have regarded that as unfair.   I think the manager got out-managed in the last 30 and extra time though.

Southgate is a good guy.  He really didn't deserve to be treated like a joke figure after his time as a club manager.

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4 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

I think England are a level above painfully average, to be fair.  Sweden I would say are precisely that.  Columbia too.  

I wouldn't say they were found out against Croatia, either. For an hour, England were the better side.  For the first half, they were comfortably the better side.  If they had gone in two or three up, nobody would have regarded that as unfair.   I think the manager got out-managed in the last 30 and extra time though.

Southgate is a good guy.  He really didn't deserve to be treated like a joke figure after his time as a club manager.

This appears to be the threadbare comfort blanket of choice round our way. Two shots on target over 120 minutes - including the free kick they scored. None of my colleagues has given me any explanation of how you can score two or three goals if you can't hit the fucking target, however

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England were the better side for the first half hour yesterday, Croatia started playing after that. I've spoken to a few folk at my work saying that England were dominant and could have killed the game off in the first half. They must've been watching a different game than me.

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It's a little in the middle of all that.  You'll get people saying they controlled the game, and others saying they got pumped.  They controlled the game without creating too many chances.  The only big one I can think of in their spell of "dominance" was Kane going through, which he fucked up.  Twice.  But the lack of shots on target shouldn't disguise the fact that Croatia looked all over the place.  A bit more composure and creation of quality chances, and England could have been out of sight and killed the game off.  As it was, instead of pressing home the advantage around the half hour mark, they eased off a little.  Maybe ironically worried that Croatia might pick them off.  Croatia then grew into the game in the next 15 mins, and by the time the second half started they were well and truly on top.  From there Croatia were largely untroubled, and I don't remember any clear chances from there, or even any good half-chances.

So basically, the potential was there to kill off the game early, but they didn't do much to pursue it.  They then utterly shat the bed and Croatia knew it.

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The desperation to see this as some sort of astonishing achievement is hilarious.

Their media have gone into full "Non-league team gets through a few rounds of the FA Cup"-style patronising in an attempt to show how much they really didn't think they would win it, despite the fact they've been planning their route to the final since the winner against Tunisia.

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13 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

See when folk say that England are massive underachievers...I presume it refers to the infrastructure and interest in the game? I can't think of an England squad in my lifetime who seemed like they were knocked out of a tournament before their time. I can, however, think of a couple that made it a bit further than they deserved.

They always seem to do about as well as the quality of their players merits, IMO.

I agree a bit. Their Euro 2000 squad was good. Knocked out in the groups.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2000_squads#England

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There's a ludicrous amount of delusion about how amazing England are off the back of pummeling Panama, beating Tunisia with two corners, scraping by Colombia on penalties and beating a fair but unspectacular post-Zlatan and Henrik Larsson Sweden. 

I'm almost certain that Gary Neville said against Colombia at HT something like "England are a far better side", and said similar at HT against Croatia.

They lost AET to Croatia and lost in the groups to Belgium, the two best sides they've played in the tournament.

I would say, though, that England absolutely deserve a fair amount of credit for going from a shapeless, disorganised mess at prior tournaments (Southgate certainly seems competent enough to stop anything like when they got picked off 4-1 by Germany, or huffing and puffin, ha, against Iceland) to working very well with what they had available and being extremely deadly at set-pieces. They look far better after shaking off players like Rooney, and they weren't far off doing similar to Greece in 2004.

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13 hours ago, roman_bairn said:


Last I remember the game is eleven a side.
England were clear favourites tonight with all major bookmakers but failed.
Indeed they have achieved nothing extraordinary in this campaign so why are they being lauded?

When Croats beat Spain, most of England celebrated. I thought that was strange.

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7 minutes ago, HaikuHibee said:

When Croats beat Spain, most of England celebrated. I thought that was strange.

That would be strange if they were celebrating a match and result that never took place.

And what is "strange" about being happy a big side got eliminated from your side of the draw?  

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Just now, forameus said:

Except Croatia didn't beat Spain.  Saying it in two different posts doesn't make it any more correct.  

And what is "strange" about being happy a big side got eliminated from your side of the draw?  

Oh my mistake mate. That's not why they were happy, quite the opposite.

It was "easier", "it's only Croatia", check #itscominghome

In reality, Southgate barely kept his job. That's the odd thing here.

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Just now, HaikuHibee said:

Oh my mistake mate. That's not why they were happy, quite the opposite.

It was "easier", "it's only Croatia", check #itscominghome

So they weren't happy because a big side got eliminated from their draw (hence, making it easier), but they were happy because it was easier?

The vast majority of those who were eating up the whole it's coming home thing would've either been those that know f**k all about football, or their knowledge extends to who is "good".  In their minds, Spain were and Croatia weren't as good as them.  It's really not hard to grasp.

1 minute ago, HaikuHibee said:

In reality, Southgate barely kept his job. That's the odd thing here.

Image result for suuuure gif meme

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1 minute ago, forameus said:

So they weren't happy because a big side got eliminated from their draw (hence, making it easier), but they were happy because it was easier?

The vast majority of those who were eating up the whole it's coming home thing would've either been those that know f**k all about football, or their knowledge extends to who is "good".  In their minds, Spain were and Croatia weren't as good as them.  It's really not hard to grasp.

Image result for suuuure gif meme

Well for "Sir Gareth", he was two pens from the sack. Colombian ones.

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