nsr Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I think if you weren't actually alive when your team last won a major tournament, you really have no right to celebrate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, nsr said: I think if you weren't actually alive when your team last won a major tournament, you really have no right to celebrate it. *International football only. Spoiler Please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 21 minutes ago, nsr said: I think if you weren't actually alive when your team last won a major tournament, you really have no right to celebrate it. Especially wins that nobody alive today was ever around to witness, yet people still use for one-upmanship. Morton fans seem to be the stand out culprits for this one. Eta: I'm a bit undecided on the whole 'overachievement' thing. To take an extreme fantasy, if Brechin actually won a major cup as a result of a ridiculous cup draw that saw us only beat League 2 & HL sides (after a series of shock results courtesy of them, e.g. Aberdeen to beat Celtic / Rangers only to get knocked out by East Fife on pens... again) to get there, would it be no big achievement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 It's nice that either France or Croatia will become 'proper' world champions. i.e. teams that win the world cup outside their own country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said: Especially wins that nobody alive today was ever around to witness, yet people still use for one-upmanship. Morton fans seem to be the stand out culprits for this one. Eta: I'm a bit undecided on the whole 'overachievement' thing. To take an extreme fantasy, if Brechin actually won a major cup as a result of a ridiculous cup draw that saw us only beat League 2 & HL sides (after a series of shock results courtesy of them, e.g. Aberdeen to beat Celtic / Rangers only to get knocked out by East Fife on pens... again) to get there, would it be no big achievement? It would be a great achievement for Brechin. England do not see themselves as a Brechin of international football. They should be a team routinely getting to semis in World and European cups, not squeezing through on the occasional lucky draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said: Especially wins that nobody alive today was ever around to witness, yet people still use for one-upmanship. Morton fans seem to be the stand out culprits for this one. Eta: I'm a bit undecided on the whole 'overachievement' thing. To take an extreme fantasy, if Brechin actually won a major cup as a result of a ridiculous cup draw that saw us only beat League 2 & HL sides (after a series of shock results courtesy of them, e.g. Aberdeen to beat Celtic / Rangers only to get knocked out by East Fife on pens... again) to get there, would it be no big achievement? England aren't comparable with Brechin on relative terms to the rest of the world. They're what 7th(?) in the world rankings? They've basically got one round further than their seeding expected. It's more like St Johnstone getting to a semi without playing any of the big guns. It's an achievement, it's not wildly overachieving though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy Snake Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 The Guardian football podcast was very good last night, though Max Rushden sounded like he was ready to kill himself at points. They basically just said Gareth Southgate has done a good job, he put together a young squad that seems to have bonded well, and got the country supporting the national side with some pride again. It’s worth bearing in mind England’s last two major tournaments have ended with going out the Euros to Iceland and not making it out the group stage at the World Cup so, however you do it, reaching the semi-finals is an achievement. However, (unlike their TV equivalents) they also acknowledged there’s very little, in terms of on-the-pitch performances, to be overwhelmed by. They scraped past Tunisia, thumped a woeful Panama side, needed penalties to beat Colombia (admitting they should have been able to win that game in 90 minutes), and beat a Sweden side who simply didn’t turn up in the quarters. As with most of their games, last night they dominated the first half but can’t seem to score a second goal to kill the game. England have a young, inexperienced side who will have plenty more tournaments to make a mark in. Whether France would have beat them in the final or not, it’s still a huge missed opportunity, as they’re unlikely to ever get as easy a run of fixtures in a World cup again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 37 minutes ago, MarkoRaj said: England aren't comparable with Brechin on relative terms to the rest of the world. They're what 7th(?) in the world rankings? They've basically got one round further than their seeding expected. It's more like St Johnstone getting to a semi without playing any of the big guns. It's an achievement, it's not wildly overachieving though They're twelfth, so Ross County would be the best analogy. This is the equivalent of them reaching a semi having played Raith at best before getting knocked out by the present day Falkirk. The notable difference is that County have recently been in two finals (having actually won one of them) and Falkirk have been to three Scottish Cup finals since 1997, having played superior opposition to get there (County beating Celtic in one of those semis). Basically, it was no big deal they beat lesser opposition and both have gone further than the semis on multiple occasions. You could arguably swap County with either St Mirren or Livingston as the '12th team', but it wouldn't help the argument as both have won a major tournament since 2004 (St Mirren being as recent as 4 years ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiepiemuncher Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 England are fairly predictable in that they will almost always beat lesser sides and almost always lose to better sides.Scotland are almost the exact opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro Sham Bo Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, The Master said: This. Many times over. Their run is like a Championship team getting to the Scottish Cup final by beating a Highland League side, a couple of League One sides, and another Championship side. It's a good achievement, because you can only beat what's in front of you, but it doesn't mean they're suddenly capable of taking on the very best teams. You mean the Scottish Cup semi final, not the final surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, Ro Sham Bo said: You mean the Scottish Cup semi final, not the final surely? It doesn't really matter. The point is that having an easy route to the latter stages of a tournament doesn't indicate an ability to regularly mix with the "big time". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 9 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Well yes. It's to do with the stature of the country in having an extremely long established football culture, alongside a large population. Such factors have seen the other Western European countries in the same boat achieve much more. Suggesting that England has produced too few quality players doesn't counter the argument; it supports it. This particular England side doesn't need to have come up short of its capabilities (and neither do former ones) in order for the statement that England is a huge underachiever as a football nation, to be absolutely true. Would the fans and media be so arrogant and overconfident if they hadn't won in 66? Where they 'qualified' as hosts, played all games at Wembley, ball never over the line, etc. They went to Mexico as holders, so didn't 'qualify', then failed to qualify in 74, 78 and 94. Since then , not many highs and quite a few lows, so a poor history for the 'home of football'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizfit Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Genuinely feel for Southgate. Comes across like a good guy who knows fine well how ridiculous the media are. He did everything he could to manage the media and did it superbly until the quarters where they just couldn't help themselves and went into overdrive. England are a painfully average side who were given a fortunate draw and did what they needed to take advantage up to the semis, but were then found out. Not much more to it than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackdaybob Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, mizfit said: Yes, yes we do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Not really into trolling people but I’m thoroughly enjoying the trolling of England fans on Match Of The Days Facebook. Getting it right up the “pub league” criers, it’s truly fantastic. They will be hurting for a long long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, mizfit said: Highly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackdaybob Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 It is indeed a wonderful day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 34 minutes ago, cyderspaceman said: Would the fans and media be so arrogant and overconfident if they hadn't won in 66? Where they 'qualified' as hosts, played all games at Wembley, ball never over the line, etc. They went to Mexico as holders, so didn't 'qualify', then failed to qualify in 74, 78 and 94. Since then , not many highs and quite a few lows, so a poor history for the 'home of football'. Indeed. Consistent underachievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 4 hours ago, djchapsticks said: That raging Donald Trump style stongarm handshake at the end there from the journo interviewing him. Gabriel Clark is a very good interviewer in fairness to him. He's done some excellent football documentaries and not really known as a "fanboy" TBH. 3 hours ago, DanMc99 said: Tyldsley at final whistle " not this time , not this year" the deflation in his voice was absolutely glorious. Does anyone have a link to this? My ITV iplayer doesn't work for some reason so I missed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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