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Andy Barrowman's an even better example; plays in a FT Ross Country team in the 2nd Div. Routs it. Barely scores again at a higher level.

I repeat: I wouldn't be saying it if I didn't have a fresh memory of all three leagues from the Championship down, and the players who lit those up. You're talking to someone that's seen those leagues by fact of plummeting through them in the last decade.

And I do mean, to be clear, that there's individuals here who're pound for pound as good or better than those in the Championship. Goodie, McAllister, Dillon, Boyle, Cogill, McStay et al. Two of those lads are Huddersfield players, mind. One was recently worth nigh-on £2-Mil. McStay's an absolute fluke playing down here, and McAllister's turned down the SPL.

If you'd seen these lads play, and you'd seen the Championship, you wouldn't scoff. The difference in technical quality, experience and attitude isn't profound at all. And in some cases the balance would be with L2.

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I think that Sao Paulo is wrong.

However, I think the proof will be in how many out of contact League Two players are playing in the Championship next season.

Of the Clyde players mentioned, Goodwillie is the most obviously someone much better than our league. In my opinion, he's top Championship or lower Premiership level

Boyle and Cogill are full time players at Huddersfield playing in a part-time league (which, as discussed, is without doubt an advantage) but even Boyle has been dropped a few times by Danny Lennon.

McStay, I'm not convinced is Championship level either. Certainly he's been poor in the last couple of matches.

McAllister and Dillon are past their best but are playing well in League Two and will probably do a turn in League One if they go up.

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3 minutes ago, haufdaft said:

I think that Sao Paulo is wrong.

However, I think the proof will be in how many out of contact League Two players are playing in the Championship next season.

Of the Clyde players mentioned, Goodwillie is the most obviously someone much better than our league. In my opinion, he's top Championship or lower Premiership level

Boyle and Cogill are full time players at Huddersfield playing in a part-time league (which, as discussed, is without doubt an advantage) but even Boyle has been dropped a few times by Danny Lennon.

McStay, I'm not convinced is Championship level either. Certainly he's been poor in the last couple of matches.

McAllister and Dillon are past their best but are playing well in League Two and will probably do a turn in League One if they go up.

Finally, a balanced Clyde fan. In the whole, players are in league 2 for a reason.

i totally agree with your assessment of goodwillie, he’s a long way from a top player now.

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2 hours ago, Sao Paulo said:

Andy Barrowman's an even better example; plays in a FT Ross Country team in the 2nd Div. Routs it. Barely scores again at a higher level.

I repeat: I wouldn't be saying it if I didn't have a fresh memory of all three leagues from the Championship down, and the players who lit those up. You're talking to someone that's seen those leagues by fact of plummeting through them in the last decade.

And I do mean, to be clear, that there's individuals here who're pound for pound as good or better than those in the Championship. Goodie, McAllister, Dillon, Boyle, Cogill, McStay et al. Two of those lads are Huddersfield players, mind. One was recently worth nigh-on £2-Mil. McStay's an absolute fluke playing down here, and McAllister's turned down the SPL.

If you'd seen these lads play, and you'd seen the Championship, you wouldn't scoff. The difference in technical quality, experience and attitude isn't profound at all. And in some cases the balance would be with L2.

Deary me. 

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I think that Sao Paulo is wrong.

 

However, I think the proof will be in how many out of contact League Two players are playing in the Championship next season.

 

Of the Clyde players mentioned, Goodwillie is the most obviously someone much better than our league. In my opinion, he's top Championship or lower Premiership level

 

Boyle and Cogill are full time players at Huddersfield playing in a part-time league (which, as discussed, is without doubt an advantage) but even Boyle has been dropped a few times by Danny Lennon.

 

McStay, I'm not convinced is Championship level either. Certainly he's been poor in the last couple of matches.

 

McAllister and Dillon are past their best but are playing well in League Two and will probably do a turn in League One if they go up.

 

Dillon was absolutely hopeless and well out his depth towards the end of his United career. Trust me, watched enough of him.

 

Agree with the rest though. No doubt now DG is back looking sharp he could be an asset in the championship.

 

Boyle and Cogill may well be at Huddersfield but for how long, how young are they? I remember being told that Darren Ramsey was one of Rangers best under 20 players. Look how that turned out.

 

The difference from L2 to L1 is noticeable, but the difference from L1 to the Championship is huge. If we go up I fully expect us to come right back down even though I’d imagine we’d strengthen even more than we did this season.

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5 hours ago, Sao Paulo said:

The bold is absurd. And not a conclusion anyone reading what I've written could reasonably come to.

Just as absurd as your claim, based on experience, that part-timers are often every bit as fit. You've been repeating this rubbish for years too; I can recall you posting it back when we were, ahem, a barely-decent first division mob. Training two nights a week, with voluntary additions in your own time, doesn't come close to dedicating your entire working week to it. Anyone who's watched a midweek or end-of-season tie between a full-time and part-time team; or indeed a regular Saturday tie in league 1 or the championship would know at latest by the second-half which team was the full-time team and which team was the part-time team. Sure: you can get an exceptional group of part-time lads; and an exceptionally bad group of full time lads re their quality. But to hold-out that part-time and full-time players are often every bit as fit as one another has no basis in evidence whatever. And if I'm miles-out with my claim about a L2 select this year, you're even further so with that patter.

And if your next move is: 'What about this cup-time where [part-time team] played [full-time team] off the park?', spare me it. We beat Celtic 12 years ago; the cup is the cup. Reality is the next match. Or the season as a whole.

As for the 'generally players find their level in a league' line; I took care to explain-away why this season was exceptional. You've addressed only Goodwillie and McAllister in name. There's plenty more than that. If you're so confident that these lads deserve to be here, why don't we make it a bet? You tell me who among my lot won't either get an offer or actually be playing full-time next season? Either in the Championship or elsewhere. There will be some, of course. McAllister's not leaving Peterhead any time soon. But come on: you know that much about McStay, Boyle, Cogill... You'll want to show-off to a P&B audience, sure.

:lol: I had forgotten in your many years absence how genuinely unintentionally hilarious you are.

I didnt particularly say that part time players across the board are as fit as full time ones but some are and the extent to which its a factor is relatively minor. The difference is more to do with ability than fitness.

I have seen plenty of League Two players this season. We have played Montrose three times and they appear to be about the best League Two has to offer. I also saw us play Berwick & Stenhousemuir and I have seen games at Annan.

I have no idea who Cogill, Boyle and McStay are but being full time at Huddersfield doesnt prove much. So was Liam Coogans and he couldnt get a game on loan to us and now plays for East Kilbride I think. Sean Dillon did well against us for Montrose, as did the very impressive Cammy Ballantyne (who already is full time and will be so next season too) but neither was getting a game for a mid table Championship side before they went to Montrose. I know Annan are a bottom half side but most of their team were our u20s squad last season.

There will of course be a few young players who graduate up the Leagues. One or two may even do an Andy Robertson and make it big. It doesnt mean a League Two select would beat a Championship one more often than not if fitness levels weren't a factor.

And I would take Dobbie and Nicky Clark over Goodwillie and McAllister too.

Edited by Skyline Drifter
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Look at it this way bud. I've got Enoch Powell as my display picture. A line from his infamous speech in my signature. I'm the principal apologist for Goodwillie, Love etc. I routinely make disagreeable claims about politics, football and anything up for grabs.

Some see a thread full of bites; others clicked the link, saw my alias, and thought: 'There's that #[email protected]!" again, I'm going to make him wrong online.

It's a' a bit too easy these days.

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