Sectarianism

[hellbhoy]

3 hours ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

Love that Avatar of yours.

[tehvlb]

On 16/03/2018 at 20:52, The_Kincardine said:

I had a read through that piece.  Something that stood out was, "BBC Scotland has also learned that delegates have reported at least four clubs to league bosses this season alone for fans singing offensive or sectarian songs."

So why post it in this part of the forum since the piece you referred to indicates it's not confined to the cheeks?  Not a criticism btw.

I agree with this but you won't get much traction on here.  There are at least 3 threads running about this subject and the general view seems to be, "We know what sectarianism is and we don't like it but the clubs who profit from it aren't prepared to do anything about it."

If I gauge the temperature of P&B aright they regard the following as sectarian:

-Any songs/chants about ******s
-Any songs/chants about the 1688 Williamite revolution
-Any kind of FTP reference

Posters reserve the right to use 'the H word' as that's not sectarian.  Apparently.

The IRA was clearly a sectarian organisation.  You know this.  I don't think it's hard to make a case for IRA-supporting songs to be seen as sectarian.

So if I look at my own club's songs/chants I'd, generally, prefer us to be singing about the team/club/history but @gannonballraised a fair point about defining the problem so I'll have a go:

-Songs/chants about ******s/****** blood should be proscribed.  I'd rather we were up to our knees in EBTs. This is a no-brainer.
-Songs/chants about Loyalist organisations (YCV, UVF, UDA et al) should be proscribed.  Some terrific tunes there but not in 21st C Scotland at a football game
-Any FTP reference should be proscribed.  Not that it's at all sectarian - telling the leader of a religious group to GTF is fair comment - but it is socially unacceptable
-Bobby Sands needs to be allowed to rest quietly in his grave.

OTOH Unionist Lite songs such as The Sash and Derry's Walls exercise many diddies on here but they are entirely innocuous and I don't see any need for them to be culled.

However, we are all posting on a forum which actively encourages a sectarian slur.  I suggest that P&B is part of the problem.

quite level headed and well thought out

 

you sure you a ger?

[Jimboyjones1976]

On 17/03/2018 at 20:59, Bairnardo said:

Firstly, please simply provide the evidence that it's a sectarian term. Since it's beyond doubt this should be very easy for you. Given that this is about the fifth time I have asked you to do so, I won't hold my breath.

Secondly, I have no problem using the word in conversation.

Thirdly, why is it ok for you to pick on me based on my height but I can't pick on you based on your religion? (Hypothetically of course btw, I would never use sectarian insults)

And fourth, there is no doubt in my mind that your recent Old Firm threawd title was a (admittedly clever) child abuse type dig at Celtic. Truly disgusting behaviour from yuorself.

Doesn’t surprise me though. He’s all over child abuse lik a tramp on chips.

[Jimboyjones1976]

On 09/04/2018 at 18:41, The_Kincardine said:

Oh and that makes it much better?  It's perfectly clear from that match that the place for '*** scum' is on the end of a rope and that '****' are Rangers fans and Protestants, which is why one of the dolls was garbed to represent a Protestant.  Absolutely shocking stuff - the worst expression of hate since the Mark Walters incident.

That **** = Rangers fans is utter tosh, as shown by your fans' choice of dress for your puerile sex dolls.  We know from your post that The H Word now applies to teams that bring a, "significant number of union flags to games v Celtic".  We know from elsewhere on the board it can be used to describe supporters of other clubs who may wish Rangers well.  It has certainly been used to describe certain referees and McQuade - a now banned Celtic supporter - stated on here that it was used to describe a 'Proddy'.

There is no argument that The H Word has been used as a religious slur both on P&B and elsewhere.  Over the 12 years I've posted on here the board should be praised for tackling racist and homophobic slurs and for dealing with other sectarian language very well.  Why you and other posters are desperate to cling on to this one is a mystery.  I'm confident, though, it will become as unacceptable as other now-proscribed terms.

Again, another example of a house bound bigot trying to justify his club’s attitude with a spot of whataboutery.

*** is not an offensive term, as judged by Scotland’s anti sectarianism legislation. You know it. I know it. Even a quick look at the internet knows it. Rangers, if I remember rightly tried to have the word listed as illegal but guess what happened? It fell by the wayside like every other plan to come out of Govan in the last few years.

It’s a pretty simple analysis really.  Rangers, who not only have been world leaders in bigotry, have been dishing out sectarian slurs to others for their entire history, short or long, whichever you believe, and can’t handle it when it’s fired back at them. In those types of occasions the supporters of Rangers such as the eloquently educated and spoken press departments at Vanguard Bears or Follow Follow put out statements that always fail to condemn their fans actions and instead look to Celtic fans and try to deflect. Incidently, these same morons went berserk because Hibs cut their allocation. Irony is that after they had a big group cry about it and stated it was a safety concern, they then do the same at their place.

Bottom lone is that *** isn’t illegal or overall offensive. The only people who are offended by it are Rangers fans who think their opinion on the matter is law. Which it isn’t. They are of the belief that everyone’s out to get them and will cite any form of abuse towards their club as a sectarian slur. Being offensive is a right in the UK. You don’t have to like it, or listen to it, but you can’t stop it. You can however, stop illegal terms. That’s what laws do, and the law doesn’t apply in this case.

The best part of it is that Neanderthal Sevco supporters get so annoyed about it that it’s fun to call them that. At the same time they’re telling Celtic and Hibs supporters to go home.  This very duplicit argument is exactly why no one takes them seriously anymore. The cherry on top of the cake is that their sense of entitlement, because they are ****, means that they are now so enraged that the establishment is no longer there for them that they’ve now such a fractured and stupid support that they can’t get their act together to do anything that is in the best interests of their club, like save it from liquidation.

So, in summary, *** is not illegal, and not majoritively offensive. Only to Rangers fans. And judging by the way the rest of Scottish football has ‘listened’ to what they have to say over the past few years, no one likes them and no one cares, just like that non offensive song they like to sing about themselves.

 

Long May it last.

[The DA]

3 hours ago, Jimboyjones1976 said:

Again, another example of a house bound bigot trying to justify his club’s attitude with a spot of whataboutery.

*** is not an offensive term, as judged by Scotland’s anti sectarianism legislation. You know it. I know it. Even a quick look at the internet knows it. Rangers, if I remember rightly tried to have the word listed as illegal but guess what happened? It fell by the wayside like every other plan to come out of Govan in the last few years.

It’s a pretty simple analysis really.  Rangers, who not only have been world leaders in bigotry, have been dishing out sectarian slurs to others for their entire history, short or long, whichever you believe, and can’t handle it when it’s fired back at them. In those types of occasions the supporters of Rangers such as the eloquently educated and spoken press departments at Vanguard Bears or Follow Follow put out statements that always fail to condemn their fans actions and instead look to Celtic fans and try to deflect. Incidently, these same morons went berserk because Hibs cut their allocation. Irony is that after they had a big group cry about it and stated it was a safety concern, they then do the same at their place.

Bottom lone is that *** isn’t illegal or overall offensive. The only people who are offended by it are Rangers fans who think their opinion on the matter is law. Which it isn’t. They are of the belief that everyone’s out to get them and will cite any form of abuse towards their club as a sectarian slur. Being offensive is a right in the UK. You don’t have to like it, or listen to it, but you can’t stop it. You can however, stop illegal terms. That’s what laws do, and the law doesn’t apply in this case.

The best part of it is that Neanderthal Sevco supporters get so annoyed about it that it’s fun to call them that. At the same time they’re telling Celtic and Hibs supporters to go home.  This very duplicit argument is exactly why no one takes them seriously anymore. The cherry on top of the cake is that their sense of entitlement, because they are ****, means that they are now so enraged that the establishment is no longer there for them that they’ve now such a fractured and stupid support that they can’t get their act together to do anything that is in the best interests of their club, like save it from liquidation.

So, in summary, *** is not illegal, and not majoritively offensive. Only to Rangers fans. And judging by the way the rest of Scottish football has ‘listened’ to what they have to say over the past few years, no one likes them and no one cares, just like that non offensive song they like to sing about themselves.

 

Long May it last.

It's no more offensive than calling Dundee fans Funsters, United fans Dayglos or Aberdeen fans sheep-shaggers (they ARE, by the way).

It's SUPPOSED to offend the opposition.  That's the fucking point.

Edited May 27, 2018 by The DA

[bennett]

3 hours ago, Jimboyjones1976 said:

Again, another example of a house bound bigot trying to justify his club’s attitude with a spot of whataboutery.

*** is not an offensive term, as judged by Scotland’s anti sectarianism legislation. You know it. I know it. Even a quick look at the internet knows it. Rangers, if I remember rightly tried to have the word listed as illegal but guess what happened? It fell by the wayside like every other plan to come out of Govan in the last few years.

It’s a pretty simple analysis really.  Rangers, who not only have been world leaders in bigotry, have been dishing out sectarian slurs to others for their entire history, short or long, whichever you believe, and can’t handle it when it’s fired back at them. In those types of occasions the supporters of Rangers such as the eloquently educated and spoken press departments at Vanguard Bears or Follow Follow put out statements that always fail to condemn their fans actions and instead look to Celtic fans and try to deflect. Incidently, these same morons went berserk because Hibs cut their allocation. Irony is that after they had a big group cry about it and stated it was a safety concern, they then do the same at their place.

Bottom lone is that *** isn’t illegal or overall offensive. The only people who are offended by it are Rangers fans who think their opinion on the matter is law. Which it isn’t. They are of the belief that everyone’s out to get them and will cite any form of abuse towards their club as a sectarian slur. Being offensive is a right in the UK. You don’t have to like it, or listen to it, but you can’t stop it. You can however, stop illegal terms. That’s what laws do, and the law doesn’t apply in this case.

The best part of it is that Neanderthal Sevco supporters get so annoyed about it that it’s fun to call them that. At the same time they’re telling Celtic and Hibs supporters to go home.  This very duplicit argument is exactly why no one takes them seriously anymore. The cherry on top of the cake is that their sense of entitlement, because they are ****, means that they are now so enraged that the establishment is no longer there for them that they’ve now such a fractured and stupid support that they can’t get their act together to do anything that is in the best interests of their club, like save it from liquidation.

So, in summary, *** is not illegal, and not majoritively offensive. Only to Rangers fans. And judging by the way the rest of Scottish football has ‘listened’ to what they have to say over the past few years, no one likes them and no one cares, just like that non offensive song they like to sing about themselves.

 

Long May it last.

Overly defensive of what is a bigoted phrase, there really is no place for backward attitudes like yours anymore.

 

25 minutes ago, The DA said:

It's no more offensive than calling Dundee fans Funsters, United fans Dayglos or Aberdeen fans sheep-shaggers (they ARE, by the way).

It's SUPPOSED to offend the opposition.  That's the fucking point.

Supposed to offend eh.....

 

 

[Bairnardo]

Supposed to offend eh.....
 
 

Presumably you were trying to offend someone when you made comments on here that a mod found banworthy?

[The DA]

29 minutes ago, bennett said:

Overly defensive of what is a bigoted phrase, there really is no place for backward attitudes like yours anymore.

 

Supposed to offend eh.....

 

 

You do not have the right to not be offended.  As long as it's legal.

[The_Kincardine]

On 5/27/2018 at 16:16, Jimboyjones1976 said:

So, in summary, *** is not illegal, and not majoritively offensive. Only to Rangers fans. And judging by the way the rest of Scottish football has ‘listened’ to what they have to say over the past few years, no one likes them and no one cares, just like that non offensive song they like to sing about themselves.

 

Long May it last.

Funny.  I now and then post on FF.  Whenever the 'sectarian' discussion comes up there are always a few knuckle-draggers who are desperate to defend their own pet sectarian term.  They use pretty-much the same arguments as you and are unwilling to accept that they have to move on.

I guess that's bigots for you.

[mylothedog]

I'm a protestant. A lot of my friends are. We support St. Mirren. We are not ****. I have no idea what religion, if any, Kincardine is. He is a ***.

[The Grass Is Greener.]

***

[Snifter Pee Rot]

The h word is not sectarian. Just because The Rangers fans don't like it doesn't make it a religious insult. Ludicrous it is proscribed so heavily when the courts have said it is not sectarian.  

[The_Kincardine]

 

48 minutes ago, Snifter Pee Rot said:

The h word is not sectarian. Just because The Rangers fans don't like it doesn't make it a religious insult. Ludicrous it is proscribed so heavily when the courts have said it is not sectarian.  

30 seconds on the internet shows that you are wrong...and this from a Celtic site: http://www.celtic-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/scottish_football_fans_must_beware_of_the_hword_police_413448/index.shtml

[HibsFan]

5 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

30 seconds on the internet shows that you are wrong...and this from a Celtic site: http://www.celtic-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/scottish_football_fans_must_beware_of_the_hword_police_413448/index.shtml

Why did Rangers fans used to sing 'go home you ****' to Celtic fans in the 50s and 60s? Rangers fans freely admit this on forums.

Did the two sets of supporters switch faiths in the 70s and nobody noticed?

[Snifter Pee Rot]

5 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

30 seconds on the internet shows that you are wrong...and this from a Celtic site: http://www.celtic-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/scottish_football_fans_must_beware_of_the_hword_police_413448/index.shtml

Celtic Mad. Lol.  Haven't looked at that site for ten years and it was modded by a Rangers fan last I did. Try harder honey.

[Snifter Pee Rot]

10 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Why did Rangers fans used to sing 'go home you ****' to Celtic fans in the 50s and 60s? Rangers fans freely admit this on forums.

Did the two sets of supporters switch faiths in the 70s and nobody noticed?

Didn't the h word come from an English judge that described the hordes rampaging ala Manchester 08 in some city or town? It certainly wasn't in use in the 50s. I know that. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Snifter Pee Rot

[Guest]

'***' was originally attributed to the marauding hordes of old Attila running amok and kicking the shit out of poor old domesticated and civilised people.

Used as a derogatory term to describe the German army during World War 1 for similar reasons to Attila I believe, in fact just like the Rangers hordes in Manchester.

Startling similarities being honest.

[nsr]

On 28/05/2018 at 19:15, mylothedog said:

I have no idea what religion, if any, Kincardine is.

Bacchanalian.

[Jimbo Jagsfan]

On ‎29‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 01:49, Snifter Pee Rot said:

Didn't the h word come from an English judge that described the hordes rampaging ala Manchester 08 in some city or town? It certainly wasn't in use in the 50s. I know that. 

I thought it was when Rangers (deceased) played Wolves in the European Cup in the 1960s. The supporters rampaged through Wolverhampton and were described in the local press as like the 'H**s' .

[Carlos the Jackal]

On 29/05/2018 at 01:49, Snifter Pee Rot said:

Didn't the h word come from an English judge that described the hordes rampaging ala Manchester 08 in some city or town? It certainly wasn't in use in the 50s. I know that. 

I thought the ‘h’ word was how Rangers fans addressed each other when they text e.g. ‘Hi h** meet me by the bins at 6pm’ - that sort of thing