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Bonnyrigg Rose should they stay or should they go...

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1 hour ago, bendan said:

I can't see why the south should continue to have a separate part in the pyramid at tier 6. It's actually just the south west, so it should come under a wider West umbrella. If everyone were in the pyramid, most SoS teams would be at tier 8. Seems more sensible to have East and West each split into north/south sections at tier 7 or 8.

Agreed.  Longer term, the SoS should move down to a more regional level.   It would make no sense to have an East/West/South divide at step six if the South league only covers Dumfries & Galloway; that would be a tiny area compared to the East and West leagues.  

For now, though, we need to actually see west clubs moving across or there being a significant interest in a WoS league.  If I was in Clydebank's position, I'd probably move to the EoS for next season.  The SoS would likely be easier to win but the EoS would seem a more attractive option in terms of travelling and you'd have one or two other ex-junior clubs in there too.

As for the ideas on this thread of a four-way split at tier six with East Juniors, West Juniors, EoS and SoS...crazy.  Two East leagues covering very similar areas.  One west league covering a huge area and a South area covering a tiny area.  Whatever happens going forward, it must involve some kind of merger.  I think it would be a huge mistake to move the East/West juniors over without any integration between leagues as it would keep the divide in place and would also be completely illogical geography-wise.

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2 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Shouldn't be any tide TO turn - we all play football at a similar level. The divide is a joke.

Exactly your concerns were for the LL taking players away from junior clubs. My point was the Juniors have been doing it for years to ww. 

A level playing field with all clubs under the same association might sort that anomaly. 

The divide IS  a joke ww v bonnyrigg on a regular basis would certainly get a thumbs up from me. 

 

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45 minutes ago, stanley said:

As for the ideas on this thread of a four-way split at tier six with East Juniors, West Juniors, EoS and SoS...crazy.  Two East leagues covering very similar areas.  One west league covering a huge area and a South area covering a tiny area.  Whatever happens going forward, it must involve some kind of merger.  I think it would be a huge mistake to move the East/West juniors over without any integration between leagues as it would keep the divide in place and would also be completely illogical geography-wise.

We're talking Scottish non league fitba here, the expression "walk before you can run" springs to mind, and there's absolutely no guarantee we'd even get to the walking stage.

Get everyone playing in the same system, then work on the finer points such as mergers and even re-drawing boundaries later.

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6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

We're talking Scottish non league fitba here, the expression "walk before you can run" springs to mind, and there's absolutely no guarantee we'd even get to the walking stage.

Get everyone playing in the same system, then work on the finer points such as mergers and even re-drawing boundaries later.

I get where you're coming from but I also think it would be a huge mess.  Where would Lowland League clubs go when they are relegated and who would make the decision?   If a new club from the East joined the pyramid system then would they go straight into tier 6 in the EoS or down to tier 8 in the East Juniors i.e. the current north/south divisions?   What would encourage the leagues to merge?   You'd also have an almost entirely Dumfries & Galloway at the same level as a league covering the rest of the west of Scotland.

That's without even thinking of a 4-way promotion playoff.

Edited by stanley

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4 minutes ago, stanley said:

I get where you're coming from but I also think it would be a huge mess.  Where would Lowland League clubs go when they are relegated and who would make the decision?   If a new club from the East joined the pyramid system then would they go straight into tier 6 in the EoS or down to tier 8 in the East Juniors i.e. the current north/south divisions?   What would encourage the leagues to merge?  

That's without even thinking of a 4-way promotion playoff.

I think you maybe have answered the point, if the SJFA wanted to move en-masse into tier 6, that is a major seismic change, its highly unlikely they'll also agree to merge with the EoSFL at the same time.

To answer the relegation issue, former EoS clubs relegate back to the EoS, former East Juniors relegate back to the East Superleague. A 4 way play-off for 2 promotion spots is fairly straightforward.

Edited by Burnie_man

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I think whats clear from this is a revamp is needed within the juniors, hopefully towards a pyramid as it would at least keep the big clubs involved in the meantime.

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6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I think you maybe have answered the point, if the SJFA wanted to move en-masse into tier 6, that is a major seismic change, its highly unlikely they'll also agree to merge with the EoSFL at the same time.

To answer the relegation issue, former EoS clubs relegate back to the EoS, former East Juniors relegate back to the East Superleague. A 4 way play-off for 2 promotion spots is fairly straightforward.

If the SJFA wanted to move en-masse into tier 6 and, therefore, become part of the pyramid then they should have to be fully part of the pyramid.  Integrated with EoS.   This idea that they get to move across and stay in the exact same leagues as usual is really not a proper solution.

I disagree on the relegation issue as well.  Where would Kelty go if they were relegated?  Back to the EoS despite having been in the juniors for many years more?   Why should clubs from the East juniors and EoS never face each other unless they reach the Lowland League (and most clubs will never reach tier five)?

A 4 way playoff for 2 promotion spots is straightforward on paper but that doesn't stop it being illogical.  Two East leagues, one West league and one Dumfries & Galloway league playing off against each other.  Is it EoS v East juniors for one spot and SoS v West juniors for the other?   Surely that would give the West juniors a huge advantage over the East juniors given that the vast majority of current Lowland League clubs are former EoS clubs and only one is from the SoS. 

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4 minutes ago, stanley said:

If the SJFA wanted to move en-masse into tier 6 and, therefore, become part of the pyramid then they should have to be fully part of the pyramid.  Integrated with EoS.   This idea that they get to move across and stay in the exact same leagues as usual is really not a proper solution.

I disagree on the relegation issue as well.  Where would Kelty go if they were relegated?  Back to the EoS despite having been in the juniors for many years more?   Why should clubs from the East juniors and EoS never face each other unless they reach the Lowland League (and most clubs will never reach tier five)?

A 4 way playoff for 2 promotion spots is straightforward on paper but that doesn't stop it being illogical.  Two East leagues, one West league and one Dumfries & Galloway league playing off against each other.  Is it EoS v East juniors for one spot and SoS v West juniors for the other?   Surely that would give the West juniors a huge advantage over the East juniors given that the vast majority of current Lowland League clubs are former EoS clubs and only one is from the SoS. 

I'm not saying its ideal, far from it, just looking at it with a dose of reality as to what to expect as a starter. If it happens at all.

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8 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

I know it mainly affects the East but the LL must affect player recruitment in the West. Cumbernauld Colts, EK and BSC all contain players who would be playing in Super Premier / First if they did not exist. Let's be conservative and say each club has 10 players capable of playing in those leagues - that's 30 less players on the market. The figure will be higher though - you're potentially depriving the Junior leagues in the west of maybe a 3 figure number as there are good players in their U20s too who would be playing Junior or 21s otherwise. And as Bonnyton establish themselves, they will be a threat to the Ayrshire sides.

Kilbirnie have taken 3 players from BSC and 1 from East Kilbride since start of season. Are they any better than what's available in juniors ? nope. Do I fear players leaving juniors to play in Lowland ? Nope. 

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39 minutes ago, clash city rocker said:

Kilbirnie have taken 3 players from BSC and 1 from East Kilbride since start of season. Are they any better than what's available in juniors ? nope. Do I fear players leaving juniors to play in Lowland ? Nope. 

Don't recall saying better - they're playing at a broadly equivalent standard. Only point I'm making is that every player in LL at one of those clubs is one less player in the Juniors. This window alone, Malcolm and Prunty would be dead certs for the Super Premier had EK not got them (and they'd still been made available by their clubs).

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I reckon most of the big clubs will be making noises about moving to another League set up.Before most of the smaller clubs go to the wall because of this crazy League reconstruction in the West next season

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7 hours ago, Cancellara said:

I reckon most of the big clubs will be making noises about moving to another League set up.Before most of the smaller clubs go to the wall because of this crazy League reconstruction in the West next season

You may think the reconstruction plan's crazy, but 3/4 of the WR clubs voted FOR it!

What IS crazy is that so many of them seem determined to hang on to some sort of revised Sectional Cup at the start of the season when THAT idea should have been instantly binned like it was in the East!

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Big yes from me too, some of the games in the junior's are great but far too many games where the score is 3/4/5/6-0. I think Bonnyrigg would do well in a more professional system

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2 minutes ago, calmac25 said:

Big yes from me too, some of the games in the junior's are great but far too many games where the score is 3/4/5/6-0. I think Bonnyrigg would do well in a more professional system

The way I see it is that junior football is finished and we should get in as high as we can at the moment. 

Junior cup is a very sad loss but progress is needed for the bigger clubs. 

I sincerely hope for a clean sweep at the meeting and would be disappointed if anyone tried to go the other way given the potential circumstances. 

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19 minutes ago, Red Rose said:

The way I see it is that junior football is finished and we should get in as high as we can at the moment. 

Junior cup is a very sad loss but progress is needed for the bigger clubs. 

I sincerely hope for a clean sweep at the meeting and would be disappointed if anyone tried to go the other way given the potential circumstances. 

Do you get  a vote on it?

 

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14 minutes ago, db11 said:
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Do you get  a vote on it?

 

Yes, Do You? Always have the best for the club at heart. You can f**k off with that question. Slaver. 

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