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Bonnyrigg Rose should they stay or should they go...


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45 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

 

 

 

You need to learn how to quote.

I don't have anything to add otherwise I'll be repeating myself, but just to pick up on one point;

"Moving to the EoS should be about improving football not financing ailing clubs already struggling."

Who is moving to the EoS that are "ailing"?  Also, as you should be aware, no club receives any financial rewards or Scottish Cup entry until they are awarded an SFA Licence which is about improving standards. In fact I believe the EoS require members to commit towards gaining a Licence and will probably one day be a requirement.

So in an ideal football world everyone plays in the same system and receives greater financial reward the more they improve and progress. We don't have that so it's a no brainer that Junior clubs will seek a better environment to play football in, and one which at least rewards them financially for their efforts.

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2 minutes ago, bookerman said:

Don't you need a licence to enter the senior Scottish cup, So teams who applying to join the EOS will surely have that in there long term thinking.

I'd imagine the teams looking to move would be aiming to obtain their licence prior to the end of the 2018/19 season to ensure their place in the following seasons Scottish Cup and allowing them to take their place in the LL should they win the EOSL.

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5 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

I'd've thought if there were support from clubs for an 'all in' non-league cup, then the Junior Cup would be ideal for that. There's no reason the EoSFL and SoSFL couldn't be involved now, other than our country's bizarre football grading system.

It is the Scottish Junior Cup , no way should other than Junior teams get the chance to hold this great old trophy.

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It is the Scottish Junior Cup , no way should other than Junior teams get the chance to hold this great old trophy.

That's a bit narrow minded if u ask me. I bet you were only to happy to play in the senior Scottish cup this season
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1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

You questioned why clubs want to move to a set-up where they have no chance of winning the main cup competition, I pointed out that this is no different from the main competition in the Juniors, or indeed the main competition in European club football.    NO mention on the 90% raising their footballing standards towards the top 10%.   European requires qualification - so is based upon football attainment.

To repeat, the blindingly obvious difference is that in the Juniors those clubs who have no chance of winning the Junior Cup can and do suffer financial loss from competing in it (some clubs refuse to take part as a result), whilst in the “Seniors” competing in the Scottish Cup brings in financial rewards particularly if they go a few rounds, and in turn this increased finance can help the clubs progress on and off the pitch. Bonnyrigg know this only too well (and your club).   Moving to the EoS should be about improving football not financing ailing clubs already struggling.   Linlithgow/Bonnyrigg qualify for the Scottish Cup by either qualification or reaching required standards

That is no different to Celtic entering the Champions League, a competition they cannot win but which will bring great financial rewards.  No different than the SFA’s desire to see Scotland qualify again for a Finals tournament we have no chance of winning but which will bring in £millions in revenue.  Again Celtic qualify on footballing merit.  Forfar can't enter the Champions League - unless they qualify.   Yet we have teams wishing to move to the EoS for purely financial reasons without any footballing qualification. (With that logic surely they should apply straight to the SPL)

Why should the 90% of Junior clubs not go down the same route as the rest of football and instead stay in an environment where there is no financial rewards at all?  Why should Bonnyrigg stick around shelling out money on their squad trying to win a competition they haven’t won in 40 years with prize money of £8k? (it’s been at the same for over 20 years!).  It makes zero sense, and I’m fairly sure all Junior clubs do their upmost to attract committee, fans and finance and will continue to do so regardless of where they are playing.  What have the 90% done to improve Junior football - Bonnyrigg were in the 90% and worked towards the 10% proof of what hard work can achieve.  Sadly many within the 90% bring nothing to Junior Football - because they have no infrastructure/committee/support (no matter how hard they try).  So I don't see the benefits to football of teams being allowed to jump ship without qualification

Some people need to open their eyes to reality, Junior football offers NOTHING to the vast vast majority of its clubs.   Totally agree on this and appreciate change needs to happen.  But the danger we have is without proper management - the EoS becomes diluted and football suffers.   The EoS should be very wary on allowing teams to enter without proper due diligence and ensuring applicants meet required standards  Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be  the case

 

 

So "work hard, but know your place"?: 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, bookerman said:

Don't you need a licence to enter the senior Scottish cup, So teams who applying to join the EOS will surely have that in there long term thinking.

That’s my point ?

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7 minutes ago, GLENAFTON93 said:

It is the Scottish Junior Cup , no way should other than Junior teams get the chance to hold this great old trophy.

This is post displays why a lot of people have a low opinion on the Junior grade and it’s insular thinking.

Only Junior Clubs participate in the Scottish Junior Cup but we will stick 2 fingers up to the Pyramid and Licencing yet take the tens of thousands of pounds that is achievable in the Scottish Football Association Challenge Cup (a cup for SFA Members).

 

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3 minutes ago, Smudger said:


That's a bit narrow minded if u ask me. I bet you were only to happy to play in the senior Scottish cup this season

What has that got to do with what i posted, thats what i believe , and the Senior Cup was ok but no comparison , you know this.

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28 minutes ago, kefc said:

This is post displays why a lot of people have a low opinion on the Junior grade and it’s insular thinking.

Only Junior Clubs participate in the Scottish Junior Cup but we will stick 2 fingers up to the Pyramid and Licencing yet take the tens of thousands of pounds that is achievable in the Scottish Football Association Challenge Cup (a cup for SFA Members).

 

To be fair, junior sides are hardly going to get significant sums of money from junior football. And that's before we debate how serious some SFA members are about the pyramid themselves...

 

I'd like to stress I'm not criticising the pyramid - more noting there's so little comparable money in the juniors, I hardly blame sides for being in the senior cup. 

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2 minutes ago, kefc said:

This is post displays why a lot of people have a low opinion on the Junior grade and it’s insular thinking.

Only Junior Clubs participate in the Scottish Junior Cup but we will stick 2 fingers up to the Pyramid and Licencing yet take the tens of thousands of pounds that is achievable in the Scottish Football Association Challenge Cup (a cup for SFA Members).

 

Why has my post made you come away with such a statement,, and why have you linked it to pyramid or licencing  issues,  this is my opinion and again some are only too happy to try and score points.

 

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I’ll be honest if my team was in the west league I’d be all for staying because it’s a much stronger league competitively, financially and bigger Gates from opposition attending, tend to think the SJFA will only act on this whole issue if some large west teams start making noises about the pyramid,
So can see why west based supporters are on the view of this

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4 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

 

You questioned why clubs want to move to a set-up where they have no chance of winning the main cup competition, I pointed out that this is no different from the main competition in the Juniors, or indeed the main competition in European club football.

To repeat, the blindingly obvious difference is that in the Juniors those clubs who have no chance of winning the Junior Cup can and do suffer financial loss from competing in it (some clubs refuse to take part as a result), whilst in the “Seniors” competing in the Scottish Cup brings in financial rewards particularly if they go a few rounds, and in turn this increased finance can help the clubs progress on and off the pitch. Bonnyrigg know this only too well (and your club).

That is no different to Celtic entering the Champions League, a competition they cannot win but which will bring great financial rewards.  No different than the SFA’s desire to see Scotland qualify again for a Finals tournament we have no chance of winning but which will bring in £millions in revenue.

Why should the 90% of Junior clubs not go down the same route as the rest of football and instead stay in an environment where there is no financial rewards at all?  Why should Bonnyrigg stick around shelling out money on their squad trying to win a competition they haven’t won in 40 years with prize money of £8k? (it’s been at the same for over 20 years!).  It makes zero sense, and I’m fairly sure all Junior clubs do their upmost to attract committee, fans and finance and will continue to do so regardless of where they are playing.

Some people need to open their eyes to reality, Junior football offers NOTHING to the vast vast majority of its clubs.

AMEN!

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You need to learn how to quote.
I don't have anything to add otherwise I'll be repeating myself, but just to pick up on one point;
"Moving to the EoS should be about improving football not financing ailing clubs already struggling."
Who is moving to the EoS that are "ailing"?  Also, as you should be aware, no club receives any financial rewards or Scottish Cup entry until they are awarded an SFA Licence which is about improving standards. In fact I believe the EoS require members to commit towards gaining a Licence and will probably one day be a requirement.
So in an ideal football world everyone plays in the same system and receives greater financial reward the more they improve and progress. We don't have that so it's a no brainer that Junior clubs will seek a better environment to play football in, and one which at least rewards them financially for their efforts.


Committing to a licence isn't the same as getting one.

Your argument revolves around the right of a team to apply for a higher league without any proper qualification process. Mines about earning it

Dalkeith bypassed the footballing process and jumped into a higher league. Only time will tell if the move was football or financially motivated.

Unless their footballing fortunes greatly improve it would seem the latter.

At least Kelty went on the back of success on and off the pitch.

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3 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Dalkeith bypassed the footballing process and jumped into a higher league. Only time will tell if the move was football or financially motivated.

The Juniors & Seniors aren't connected. The EoSFL is also regarded as a poorer league than the East Region Superleague. They haven't bypassed anything and have arguably stayed at the same level, if not gone to a worse one. The only difference is their prospects are higher in the SFA Pyramid than the SJFA one.

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3 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:



Dalkeith bypassed the footballing process and jumped into a higher league. 
 

 

 

Surely the issue is that there isn't a process, even if Dalkeith were to get promoted and win the Superleague there would be no prospect of them moving up anywhere. 

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Committing to a licence isn't the same as getting one.

Your argument revolves around the right of a team to apply for a higher league without any proper qualification process. Mines about earning it

Dalkeith bypassed the footballing process and jumped into a higher league. Only time will tell if the move was football or financially motivated.

Unless their footballing fortunes greatly improve it would seem the latter.

At least Kelty went on the back of success on and off the pitch.



Your argument is a bit rubbish given there is no possibility to "earn it" and won't be anytime soon.

You seem to be criticising clubs for being financially motivated, they'd be negligent if they weren't for the reasons I explained earlier.
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2 hours ago, A.M said:

Only four can qualify , other than the registered teams.

I would guess the main attraction to joining the EOS for the likes of Bonnyrigg is the chance to play every year in the Scottish Cup and perhaps reap the rewards they achieved last year ?

If and when the leagues combined then there would be a non league Cup , but at the moment if there are only a couple of teams leaving the Juniors, similar to Kelty they are leaving the juniors behind and also the junior cup

I don’t think the Scottish cup is the big draw, I think the coherent pyramid is.

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38 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The Juniors & Seniors aren't connected. The EoSFL is also regarded as a poorer league than the East Region Superleague. They haven't bypassed anything and have arguably stayed at the same level, if not gone to a worse one. The only difference is their prospects are higher in the SFA Pyramid than the SJFA one.

Dalkeith are very definitely going into a higher ranked league. It might be populated at the moment by 2 or 3 teams who might cut it at East superleague level with the rest falling in somewhere down the chain but it is ranked higher. It is ranked higher because it is aligned to the SFA structure. 

Try applying for ground improvement support and see what you'll get as a junior team. Then have a look at what Leith can apply for. 

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And before we go back round the "shite standard" argument, it would be vastly improved if the teams sitting outside the structure were to come in.  But they're all waiting for ... f**k knows what. 

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2 hours ago, Van magic said:

I’ll be honest if my team was in the west league I’d be all for staying because it’s a much stronger league competitively, financially and bigger Gates from opposition attending, tend to think the SJFA will only act on this whole issue if some large west teams start making noises about the pyramid,
So can see why west based supporters are on the view of this

I’m not as convinced as before that it is much stronger - it’s smaller and I think that skews the picture. The west junior teams seem intransigent to change when they seem to be in pole position to drive a west league. It seems that none of the clubs have aspirations to play any further up the food chain.

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