League Leaders v Dunfermline

[Stellaboz]

Did you see the last game between us? Despite it being clear your best strategy was to stick Mvoto up and punt balls to our defence - who were not handling it well - yet Johnson waited until the last 15 mins or so, and even got a goal from it (iirc).
We can be all silky football, but we haven't shitfested a game in some time (or at least it seems that way). It's almost as if we've forgotten how to, and I feel that is the best way to counter us. Livi proved that to an extent as they also bullied us recently - granted we gifted them at least 2 goals in that defeat.
You say you've only scored 4 goals, but Dunfermline were on fire at the start of the season and there has to be a kernel of that left even if it only shows itself once in a while. We have been scraping wins recently so it really could take just one goal from you to at least take a point. That said, I do think we'll beat you tomorrow. As you said, you're form isn't great and we have home (boo) advantage.
Andy Ryan is a player I'd be interested to see. Someone had mentioned to me that he looked good in the lower leagues and when we were linked I was keen for him to come to us, but you grabbed him instead. Only seen one sub appearance from him so far, and that was late in the game.

There's no chance in hell you're beating us tomorrow.

[Buddist Monk]

1 minute ago, Stellaboz said:

There's no chance in hell you're beating us tomorrow.

Well that was stupid of me!

Saturday, I mean... Saturday..

 

[Shandon Par]

48 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

Did you see the last game between us? Despite it being clear your best strategy was to stick Mvoto up and punt balls to our defence - who were not handling it well - yet Johnson waited until the last 15 mins or so, and even got a goal from it (iirc).

We can be all silky football, but we haven't shitfested a game in some time (or at least it seems that way). It's almost as if we've forgotten how to, and I feel that is the best way to counter us. Livi proved that to an extent as they also bullied us recently - granted we gifted them at least 2 goals in that defeat.

You say you've only scored 4 goals, but Dunfermline were on fire at the start of the season and there has to be a kernel of that left even if it only shows itself once in a while. We have been scraping wins recently so it really could take just one goal from you to at least take a point. That said, I do think we'll beat you tomorrow on Saturday. As you said, your form isn't great and we have home (boo) advantage.

Andy Ryan is a player I'd be interested to see. Someone had mentioned to me that he looked good in the lower leagues and when we were linked I was keen for him to come to us, but you grabbed him instead. Only seen one sub appearance from him so far, and that was late in the game.

I could go into detail but the tl/dr version is that the manager (IMO) hasn't made the best of the resources available to him. 

[HoBNob]

3 hours ago, Buddist Monk said:

Did you see the last game between us? Despite it being clear your best strategy was to stick Mvoto up and punt balls to our defence - who were not handling it well - yet Johnson waited until the last 15 mins or so, and even got a goal from it (iirc).

We can be all silky football, but we haven't shitfested a game in some time (or at least it seems that way). It's almost as if we've forgotten how to, and I feel that is the best way to counter us. Livi proved that to an extent as they also bullied us recently - granted we gifted them at least 2 goals in that defeat.

You say you've only scored 4 goals, but Dunfermline were on fire at the start of the season and there has to be a kernel of that left even if it only shows itself once in a while. We have been scraping wins recently so it really could take just one goal from you to at least take a point. That said, I do think we'll beat you tomorrow on Saturday. As you said, your form isn't great and we have home (boo) advantage.

Andy Ryan is a player I'd be interested to see. Someone had mentioned to me that he looked good in the lower leagues and when we were linked I was keen for him to come to us, but you grabbed him instead. Only seen one sub appearance from him so far, and that was late in the game.

M'Voto never moved from defence? It was more a case of St Mirren giving away allot of unnecessary fouls which allowed us to hit him from free kicks. 

[Buddist Monk]

34 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

M'Voto never moved from defence? It was more a case of St Mirren giving away allot of unnecessary fouls which allowed us to hit him from free kicks. 

I never said he played as a striker, although he did for the last few minutes of the game, I said you punted balls to him which you did and it was pretty successful at that.

 

[Stellaboz]

It wasn't. We lost.

[Buddist Monk]

30 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

It wasn't. We lost.

Obviously you lost, and you will again, but I guess we just see things differently.

 

[Stellaboz]

Wasn't very successful then was it?!

[HoBNob]

59 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

I never said he played as a striker, although he did for the last few minutes of the game, I said you punted balls to him which you did and it was pretty successful at that.

 

You didn't no, you said that Johnston waited until the last 15 minutes which was obviously bollocks, unless you're saying that with fifteen minutes to go he told St Mirren to give away more corners and fouls? What exactly was it that Johnston changed in the final 15 minutes? 

[D.A.F.C]

Saints couldn't handle big Jock at all. He did seem to win more headers in the second half and I'm sure he set up the equaliser but as said this was at set pieces. It was funny watching two saints players run at him and still losing the headers.

f**k it just play him upfront every game for the last ten if we are losing. Time for fancy football is long gone. It's working for Livvy.

[Buddist Monk]

1 hour ago, Grant228 said:

You didn't no, you said that Johnston waited until the last 15 minutes which was obviously bollocks, unless you're saying that with fifteen minutes to go he told St Mirren to give away more corners and fouls? What exactly was it that Johnston changed in the final 15 minutes? 

I've gone back and read the game report and here are the highlights.

Spoiler

 

What I will say is that Clark's goal was far earlier than I remember it, I had thought both of the goals in the second half were much later on in the game. Mvoto did end up front in the final 5 minutes, or so, and certainly the tactic of using him to lay off was not as obvious (or effective) in the first half.

I'm not sure why you don't want to give your team credit for pushing us though. We had switched off a little after the first goal but you seem to be saying that all the problems we had in the second half were from our own errors.

3 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

Saints couldn't handle big Jock at all. He did seem to win more headers in the second half and I'm sure he set up the equaliser but as said this was at set pieces. It was funny watching two saints players run at him and still losing the headers.

This is what I am talking about, and I'm interested to see whether Ross has planned for that or not.

[HoBNob]

He won more headers in the second half because we had more set pieces, he was pretty dominant in the first half from them aswell, we just didn't have as many. 

As you've already pointed out he played centre back apart from the last 5 minutes, so for about 85 minutes of the game the only time he was in a position to win headers in the St Mirren box was from, and I bet you've figured this out now! set pieces! 

 

Can you guess why he wasn't as effective in the first half? It wasn't due to his inability to suddenly play two positions at once, it's because we didn't have as many set pieces to launch at him. 

 

I am genuinely intrigued as to what you think we "changed" was M'voto making lung bursting runs up from centre back to win the ball? Were we aiming the set pieces at someone else? What was this change with 15 minutes to go? 

[Buddist Monk]

12 hours ago, Grant228 said:

I am genuinely intrigued as to what you think we "changed" was M'voto making lung bursting runs up from centre back to win the ball? Were we aiming the set pieces at someone else? What was this change with 15 minutes to go? 

You clearly have a different opinion of the game to me. I have explained that maybe it wasn't so much as the last 15 minutes as I thought the goals were later in the game but from my point of view there was a change, so much so we had to change (and brought on MacKenzie).

However, my concern is with St Mirren, and I wish to see whether Johnson relies more on that tactic and if so whether Ross has a way of counteracting it.

[glenburn bud]

Gary Mac will keep his place in the team this sat, his height and strength will counter what M'Voto has to offer, he's also more of a goal threat for us and a real handful for the Pars defenders when we are going forward and putting decent balls into their box.

[Young gun]

I went to watch Killie a few weeks ago, my first reaction was how big a team they are,

They have height and strength all over the park.

When we win the title ,next year we need bigger players.

We have some players who could make it in the premier but some will be on the bench I fear

[HoBNob]

27 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

You clearly have a different opinion of the game to me. I have explained that maybe it wasn't so much as the last 15 minutes as I thought the goals were later in the game but from my point of view there was a change, so much so we had to change (and brought on MacKenzie).

However, my concern is with St Mirren, and I wish to see whether Johnson relies more on that tactic and if so whether Ross has a way of counteracting it.

And what change was that? We were aiming our set pieces at M'voto the whole game, what changed? 

 

How on earth do you rely on a set piece tactics? We'll use it, as we have at every game where M'voto has played. 

[Buddist Monk]

11 minutes ago, Young gun said:

When we win the title ,next year we need bigger players.

We most certainly do. I remember seeing the size of Balde, I think the biggest football player other than big Yards I'd ever seen. Clearly Yards was a little behind in the muscle definition. Yet look down south and they are even bigger.

You question ties in well with the question I raised in another thread regarding Morgan's interaction with the Celtic coaching setup. I think at present he could come on as a sub and play well enough against Scottish opponents, but I also think he needs to bulk up if that's to be a more permanent move into the first team.

1 minute ago, Grant228 said:

And what change was that? We were aiming our set pieces at M'voto the whole game, what changed?

Why do you continue to ask the same question over and over after I have stated quite clearly what I felt went on. You don't agree, that's fine, we don't have to agree, but to continue to hammer the same point again and again is a waste of your time.

[HoBNob]

25 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

.

Why do you continue to ask the same question over and over after I have stated quite clearly what I felt went on. You don't agree, that's fine, we don't have to agree, but to continue to hammer the same point again and again is a waste of your time.

You haven't stated clearly anywhere what you thought went on, I'm sure it won't be a hassle for you to Re quote the post where this apparently happened. 

 

As it is I can't see a post anywhere stating what change happened with regards to what we were doing before to what we then proceeded to do. As it is it's pretty clear to anyone who watched the game that absolutely no change happened throughout the game. 

 

From the very first set piece our intention was to hit M'voto, it looked more obvious in the second half because you gave away more set pieces, it's really as simple as that. I'm genuinely baffled as to what tactical changes you thought were made. 

 

[Buddist Monk]

3 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

As it is it's pretty clear to anyone who watched the game that absolutely no change happened throughout the game.

Well that simply isn't the case. Look, I don't mean to drag this on any more than it needs to, but to me the emphasis changed in the second half. Earlier than I had originally remembered, and I've admitted that, but I'm just going to put it down to the case that you just don't agree. And that's fine, we don't have to.

[HoBNob]

Aye, we can both find common ground in believing that St Mirren will win. 

 

2-0.