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Scott McTominay


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11 hours ago, Fratelli said:

When was the last time we had an English born player playing for us, who would actually get a game for England had they chosen to play for them?

McTominay is 24 now, serious question but before this season do you think England would have called him up????

We are lucky he didn't show this form at 19-20 as it might have been a battle to get him (see Grealish and Rice).

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11 hours ago, G51 said:

Clean sheets are far more important in knock out tournaments than anything else.

McTominay stays at CB until we find a guy who can progress the ball like him. Take him out and everything falls apart.

Does it though? I totally appreciate what you've said in regards to the outside centre backs being important roles, but we've literally not even tried anyone else in that position yet. I think we should be using the warm up games to try out a Hanley-Cooper-Tierney back 3 and move McTominay into midfield, just to see how it goes. 

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4 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Does it though? I totally appreciate what you've said in regards to the outside centre backs being important roles, but we've literally not even tried anyone else in that position yet. I think we should be using the warm up games to try out a Hanley-Cooper-Tierney back 3 and move McTominay into midfield, just to see how it goes. 

IMO, the problem with Hanley-Cooper-Tierney is:

1. Cooper isn't good enough in the air to play that role. It's pretty much the main thing we need him to be able to do.

2. Hanley isn't good enough on the ball. to play this role. Which means we become a bit one-sided when trying to progress the ball from back to front. Teams will simply set him up to be the pressing victim, force the ball his way then make him sky it out the park by pressing him. Similar to what organised teams to do to Celtic - cut Ajer's passing lanes and force Duffy to play the difficult ball, which he can't. It's a lot tougher to do that when you can play it out from either side.

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2 minutes ago, G51 said:

IMO, the problem with Hanley-Cooper-Tierney is:

1. Cooper isn't good enough in the air to play that role. It's pretty much the main thing we need him to be able to do.

2. Hanley isn't good enough on the ball. to play this role. Which means we become a bit one-sided when trying to progress the ball from back to front. Teams will simply set him up to be the pressing victim, force the ball his way then make him sky it out the park by pressing him. Similar to what organised teams to do to Celtic - cut Ajer's passing lanes and force Duffy to play the difficult ball, which he can't. It's a lot tougher to do that when you can play it out from either side.

I disagree with most of that but fair enough. 

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6 hours ago, Frankie S said:

Contentious suggestion on the face of it, so let’s have a look at goals scored for their clubs this season by current Scotland internationals playing in midfield or in attack.

Scott McTominay EPL 4, F.A. Cup 2, EFL Cup 1 Total 7

Callum Paterson EFL Championship 6, FA Cup 1 Total 7

Leigh Griffiths Scottish Premiership 5, Europa League 1, Total 6

Lyndon Dykes EFL Championship 5 (4 pens) Total 5

Lawrence Shankland Scottish Premiership 5 Total 5

Callum McGregor Scottish Premiership 3, Europa League 1 Total 4 

Ryan Christie Scottish Premiership 3, Champions League 1 Total 4

Stuart Armstrong EPL 3 Total 3

Ryan Fraser EPL 1, EFL Cup 1 Total 2

James Forrest Scottish Premiership 2 Total 2

Oliver Burke EPL 1 FA Cup 1 Total 2

Kenny McLean EFL Championship 1, FA Cup 1 Total 2

Ryan Jack Scottish Premiership 1 Total 1

John McGinn EPL 1 Total 1

Oil McBurnie EPL 1 Total 1

John Fleck Total 0

These stats hardly suggest that McTominay is the least effective Scots midfielder of the available options going forward. In fact, they suggest the opposite, and given the level he is playing at, on current form he’s clearly the most effective attacking option we have amongst the midfielders at our disposal, at least in terms of goal threat. 

McTominay has 4 of the 11 goals scored by Scots players playing in midfield or forward positions in the EPL this season. Stuart Armstrong is next on 3, with the other 4 shared one apiece by Burke, McGinn, McBurnie and Fraser. If we include defenders, it’s 4 from 14 - Tierney, Robertson and Cooper have each scored 1 in in EPL this season (none in other comps).

Footnote: Players on the fringes who have yet to play for the Scottish National side:

Kevin Nisbet Scottish Premiership 11, League Cup 2 Total 13

David Turnbull Scottish Premiership 6 (1 for Motherwell), Europa League 1 Total 7

Billy Gilmour Total 0 (albeit only from 6 appearances in all comps)

Mctominay is decent going forward, im sure he was a forward until just before he broke through into the first team.

So I agree hes a good option as a box to box, player.

However I dont think a list of how many goals different players playing different positions in different leagues is relevant tho.

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29 minutes ago, ahemps said:

McTominay is 24 now, serious question but before this season do you think England would have called him up????

We are lucky he didn't show this form at 19-20 as it might have been a battle to get him (see Grealish and Rice).

He'd maybe have been in the odd squad, as Southgate seems to like giving different players a chance in Nations League games and friendlies - calling up boys like Phillips from Leeds after playing in the championship and Conor Coady spring to mind. 

I saw an article about him a while ago before he'd played for Man United and was still in youth teams, where he'd said he probably felt more Scottish than English, so it does seem like he chose us because he wanted to play for us rather than not fancying his chances of playing for England. 

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There are people mistaking McTominay going on a hot streak (very likely) with him suddenly having developed an eye for goal and finishing ability (very unlikely).
It's definitely a hot streak. He's overperforming his xG by a ridiculous amount at the moment. He hasn't just suddenly turned into a guy with the ability to play in the hole.
You don't have to be Beckenbauer to play long balls, but you do have to be a pretty good passer when you're trying to find a guy who will be double-marked very often. You need to make good decisions and know where to go with the ball.
My theory is that this system was originally designed for two reasons: 1) to accomodate two of our better players, and 2) to protect the weakest area of the team (CB). Declan Gallagher would look every inch a Motherwell player if the whole setup wasn't geared around helping him out.
If you don't have the ball very often, then it's even more important to pick players in key positions that are good on it. Efficiency becomes very important.
Considering McTominay used to be a striker I stopped reading after first sentence.

Bring in your pal McBurnie - maybe he could play midfield
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19 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Considering McTominay used to be a striker I stopped reading after first sentence.

Bring in your pal McBurnie - maybe he could play midfield

do you just spend your days following me around this forum pal

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G51 is absolutely spot on here. Long-term McTominay should be playing in midfield for us, but until we actually find some decent centre-backs he is should stay there. Where he actually plays for Man Utd is much less important than the skillset he is showing whilst doing so. He's an energetic ball carrier who is composed on the ball and has good distribution. He's also excellent at interceptions, is very strong in the tackle and has a very good game understanding. Those are all attributes that make him an excellent midfielder in the current Man Utd team, but they're also exactly the attributes that Steve Clarke is currently looking for in the wide centre-back positions.

Of course you could put him in McGregor's place in midfield, but you would be basically asking him to do shuttle runs and track runners all over the place, and I feel like you'd get much less out of him that way.

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8 hours ago, G51 said:

There are people mistaking McTominay going on a hot streak (very likely) with him suddenly having developed an eye for goal and finishing ability (very unlikely).

McTominay played up front in age group teams for Man Utd. He’s clearly a good finisher, and is being lauded as such on Redcafe and other Man Utd fora. If you’ve watched his goals this season you’ll see  sublime first time finishes drilled low into the net against Leeds (the first), Southampton and West Ham. Watch his second goal against Leeds, he takes an immaculate first touch and it’s a striker’s finish. His finishing reminds me of Stephen Dobbie’s (albeit at a much higher level) - early first time strikes low into the corner of the net were his trademark at his peak.

You can dismiss it as a streak if you like, but he’s a young player who’s improving immensely season on season, and with improving confidence, and a more liberated B2B role afforded to him of late (for much of his early first team career he was utilised as a defensive midfielder) comes a willingness to shoot from outside the box. His conversion rate from shots attempted is high. Time will tell if it’s a streak or not, but the optimistic assessment is that he’s improving as an attacking threat, and now being given licence by the manager to get forward as the more attacking part of the double pivot with Fred.

McTominay’s goals this season

Edited by Frankie S
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8 hours ago, G51 said:

There are people mistaking McTominay going on a hot streak (very likely) with him suddenly having developed an eye for goal and finishing ability (very unlikely).

It's definitely a hot streak. He's overperforming his xG by a ridiculous amount at the moment. He hasn't just suddenly turned into a guy with the ability to play in the hole.

You don't have to be Beckenbauer to play long balls, but you do have to be a pretty good passer when you're trying to find a guy who will be double-marked very often. You need to make good decisions and know where to go with the ball.

My theory is that this system was originally designed for two reasons: 1) to accomodate two of our better players, and 2) to protect the weakest area of the team (CB). Declan Gallagher would look every inch a Motherwell player if the whole setup wasn't geared around helping him out.

If you don't have the ball very often, then it's even more important to pick players in key positions that are good on it. Efficiency becomes very important.

McTominay was a winger/attacker all the way through youth levels prior to his very late and astonishing growth spurt. 

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9 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Mctominay is decent going forward, im sure he was a forward until just before he broke through into the first team.

So I agree hes a good option as a box to box, player.

However I dont think a list of how many goals different players playing different positions in different leagues is relevant tho.

Obviously it’s not an exact science, but it’s an interesting comparison.

In the post I pulled out the stats for the EPL contingent and compared them (EPL goals only) as they’re playing at the same level. In any comparison between leagues, the weighting given to goals scored in the EPL (the highest level competed in amongst the players we have at our disposal) should obviously be higher than that given to goals scored in EFL Championship and Scottish Premiership. Either way, McTominay is having a really good season in an attacking sense (or he’s just on a bit of a hot streak). 

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37 minutes ago, Frankie S said:

Obviously it’s not an exact science, but it’s an interesting comparison.

In the post I pulled out the stats for the EPL contingent and compared them (EPL goals only) as they’re playing at the same level. In any comparison between leagues, the weighting given to goals scored in the EPL (the highest level competed in amongst the players we have at our disposal) should obviously be higher than that given to goals scored in EFL Championship and Scottish Premiership. Either way, McTominay is having a really good season in an attacking sense (or he’s just on a bit of a hot streak). 

I think its a pretty pointless comparison, no offence intended.

I agree he could and maybe should be playing in a box to box role for us.

Im torn on it tho, he offers alot in the centre back position where were so weak. He is prone to a mistake, like being out of position from time to time. But he's getting better game by game there.

Hes such a versatile player, and improving all the time. Were lucky to have him tbh.

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It is quite funny seeing some of the comments on. G51 basically hits the nail on the head regarding mctominary and then gets shot down because “mctominay used to play striker”. Brilliant.

Some of you should stick to playing FM

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14 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I think its a pretty pointless comparison, no offence intended.

I agree he could and maybe should be playing in a box to box role for us.

Im torn on it tho, he offers alot in the centre back position where were so weak. He is prone to a mistake, like being out of position from time to time. But he's getting better game by game there.

Hes such a versatile player, and improving all the time. Were lucky to have him tbh.

He's an accident waiting to happen at centre back

But a match winner in midfield

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Obviously McTominay's a far better midfielder than he is a centre back, and we'd be stronger in midfield with him in place of McGregor.

The comparison to be made though isn't between McTominay and other midfield options, it's between the alternative midfield options and alternative centre back options. Is having McGregor in midfield while he plays centre back making us a weaker team overall than having McTominay in midfield with Cooper, Hanley or someone else coming in at centre back? Is what we'd lose in ability to play out from defence compensated for by the improvement in midfield, and possibly better defending and positional sense out of possession from the replacement at centre back? I honestly don't know.

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8 hours ago, Aufc said:

It is quite funny seeing some of the comments on. G51 basically hits the nail on the head regarding mctominary and then gets shot down because “mctominay used to play striker”. Brilliant.

Some of you should stick to playing FM

This bit of the forum is a wasteland if you want an insight into football as played on the park.

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