The Master Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, H Wragg said: There must be a method written down on how to compile the post split fixtures somewhere in the SPFL offices. A highly classified document one would assume. 1) Schedule the Old Firm (sic) derby as the first post-split fixture, at the ground that's only had one so far. 2) Ensure Celtic and Rangers (sic) have have even home and away fixtures and visit each away ground no more than twice. 3) Who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 It has been widely reported several times that the fixture list is seeded based on last season's finishes - in other words it ensures that if the teams finish in the same order again, everything should "work" in terms of balance. Last season's top six was Celtic, Aberdeen, Rangers, St Johnstone, Hearts and Partick Thistle. Rangers will have played those other teams as follows: Celtic (2H 1A) Aberdeen (2H 1A) St Johnstone (1H 2A) Hearts (2H 1A) Partick Thistle (1H 2A) At the split, they would have played 17 homes and 16 aways, and would have been "due" St Johnstone and Partick Thistle at home to take their total to 19. Based on that, there's really nothing untoward going on - it's just a feature of the way the fixture list is generated. St Johnstone and Thistle have underperformed compared to last season, which throws everything off a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 It has been widely reported several times that the fixture list is seeded based on last season's finishes - in other words it ensures that if the teams finish in the same order again, everything should "work" in terms of balance. Last season's top six was Celtic, Aberdeen, Rangers, St Johnstone, Hearts and Partick Thistle. Rangers will have played those other teams as follows: Celtic (2H 1A) Aberdeen (2H 1A) St Johnstone (1H 2A) Hearts (2H 1A) Partick Thistle (1H 2A) At the split, they would have played 17 homes and 16 aways, and would have been "due" St Johnstone and Partick Thistle at home to take their total to 19. Based on that, there's really nothing untoward going on - it's just a feature of the way the fixture list is generated. St Johnstone and Thistle have underperformed compared to last season, which throws everything off a bit. The three most likely sides out of those 5 to finish top 6 by budget and previous league performance are who they were due to play away post split. So anything other than Partick or St Johnstone both finishing top 6 was always going to potentially cause this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdTheDuck Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 The obvious solution would be to have the post-splt fixtures pre-determined; 1st at home to 2nd, 3rd & 4th and away to 5th & 6th. 2nd at home to 3rd, 4th & 5th and away to 6th and 1st ... 6th at home to 1st & 2nd away to 3rd, 4th & 5th etc etc and so on and so forth Some years some teams will get 20 homes and 18 aways, other years 18 homes and 20 aways, still other years 19 homes and 19 aways. BUT before a ball is kicked everyone knows what they're aiming for; rewards for success, being top 3 (3 home/2 away post split), punishment for failure 4th to 6th (2/3 post split) Fox ache, it surely isn't that hard in the current climate to arrange 2 visit to Ibrox for Celtic pre-split until such time as Brendan fucks off and the wheels come off a bit and then it's down to taking the blows and getting on with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Estragon said: I'm not going to go back to the preseason prediction threads to get a statistic on this, but I'd imagine the overwhelming majority of supporters would have predicted those four to be in the top six, along with Rangers and one other, come April. Sometimes I wish the footballing authorities in Scotland would at least try to make it less obvious, it's bad for morale. To be absolutely fair, I disagree with this part. Hearts were absolutely diabolical at the end of last season/start of this season. Hibs were newly promoted and, as good as they looked like they might be, there was no guarantee at all they were going to make such a big impact, or that teams like my own/Motherwell/Thistle would all be far poorer than they were last season. You can absolutely guarantee, however, that Rangers won't get the raw end of the fixtures published post-split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 22 minutes ago, Lebowski said: The three most likely sides out of those 5 to finish top 6 by budget and previous league performance are who they were due to play away post split. So anything other than Partick or St Johnstone both finishing top 6 was always going to potentially cause this scenario. Based on previous league performance, Hearts were more likely to finish outside of the top 6 than St Johnstone, who have been in there for six consecutive years. This situation would only occur in the very specific scenario that both St Johnstone and Partick Thistle fell outside of the top 6, and they were replaced by two of Hibs, Dundee and Killie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Based on previous league performance, Hearts were more likely to finish outside of the top 6 than St Johnstone, who have been in there for six consecutive years. This situation would only occur in the very specific scenario that both St Johnstone and Partick Thistle fell outside of the top 6, and they were replaced by two of Hibs, Dundee and Killie. They got 2 home games against the top 2 sides in the league last season. Not sure that's how seeding is supposed to work. I think Hearts haven't been in the top 6 three times in the last 15 years? One when they were in administration and relegated, one other when they were in the Championship, and one other time they finished 7th... I don't know St Johnstones record off the top of my head, but I'd guess it was worse than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Personally I blame Ian Cathro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said: Personally I blame Ian Cathro. Logically that makes no sense whatsoever But I feel that I must agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 How dare Saints and Partick not perform to what was worked out. How dare they. How dare the real word get in the way of the spreadsheet. The utter b*****ds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the west curve Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Killie have had to play 20 away games and only 18 at home at least once before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 5 hours ago, Lebowski said: They got 2 home games against the top 2 sides in the league last season. Not sure that's how seeding is supposed to work. I think Hearts haven't been in the top 6 three times in the last 15 years? One when they were in administration and relegated, one other when they were in the Championship, and one other time they finished 7th... I don't know St Johnstones record off the top of my head, but I'd guess it was worse than that. It’s not seeding in the fullest sense. It’s basically a binary classification based on last season’s finishing position (with promoted teams taking the place of relegated teams). Edit: although I’m now struggling to think how that squares with fixtures “swapping” each season, i.e. if you play a team twice at home pre-split one season, you play them (or the team that replaces them if they’re relegated) once at home the next season, and vice versa. Maybe there is no issue and I’m overthinking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnHearts Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Hearts will have had two visits to the tribute act and the vermin by the time the split arrives. Chances of both the old firm turning up at Tynecastle post-split = NIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 5 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Logically that makes no sense whatsoever But I feel that I must agree If he didn't tank Hearts last season they would have finished much higher and therefore the set of fixtures would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 If he didn't tank Hearts last season they would have finished much higher and therefore the set of fixtures would be different. We were still comfortably fifth and while we probably would have made 4th if Nielson had stayed we were 21 off 3rd so “much better” isn’t certain Deliberately asking for a load of away fixtures early on in an attempt to minimise the number of games at Murrayfield has probably skewed things more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz FFC Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 22 hours ago, Swello said: The other, balancing law that states "If you're going to shaft a club, make sure it's the one with the least ability to make a noise about it in the press" is equally risible. Yeah, tell me about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie McSquackle Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Hearts will have had two visits to the tribute act and the vermin by the time the split arrives. Chances of both the old firm turning up at Tynecastle post-split = NIL Motherwell and Thistle complained about that last year and were roundly laughed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Celtic will go to the capital twice the rest at home. Hibs and killie will go to death star 3 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 The priority will be the OF fixture and making sure both Rangers and Celtic have a 19-19 split. Guarantee those will be the priorities. Which would mean 1 possibly two teams having to go to Mordor three times in a season. I’m guessing they’ll deal with this nearer the time but given that Aberdeen, Rangers, Hibs and conceivably even Hearts could be battling it out for European spots, the SPFL are going to have a huge problem on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Have had a look at this is more detail. If Killie make the top 6 then Celtic, Aberdeen, Hibs and Killie could all play their reverse fixtures as they are and have 19-19 Home/Away split. However it would leave Rangers with 5 away games after the split and hearts with 4 Home and 1 away. Giving Rangers a 17-21 split and hearts a 21-17. So the first port of call will almost certainly be making hearts go to ibrox 3 times. However. That still leaves rangers with 4 away games. Killie couldn’t swap their home game as it would give them 4 away. Would they make Hibs go there three times as well?? If they make Killie go to ibrox three times then someone else will have to go to rugby park three times to address the balance.Basically it’s going to be a total clusterfuck either way. It should work in theory as of the 6, three have currently played 16/17 and three 17/16. So giving everyone 3/2 2/3 should be easy but it’s going to involve a lot of teams having 1/3 or 3/1 splits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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