Club Licence

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, The Mantis said:

I think that’s spot on. Pitches and floodlights just about covers it. But my point was (and really  I should have trimmed your quote to just the final sentence) that if anybody had already been granted derogation in the 6 years of the LL then we would have heard about it.

My thought is that if its built in to the process it's probably been used at some point. If not by a LL club, then by any of the other clubs that have had a license since it's creation. Chances are we'd never know publicly as it would seem like the club successfully renewed their license.

[calmac25]

What was the situation with vale of leithan in 2015? There was talk of them getting kicked out of the LL for not meeting criteria. Did they get a derogation?

[Guest]

Derogation for specific things is normally 30 days is it not? 

[Robert James]

9 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

I get the impression that nobody actually knows how derogation should work despite it being detailed in their Licence guidlines.  Has anyone applied for derogation before? It doesn't sound like it, it's a hot potato.

For existing licensed clubs, the time period for installing floodlights, surely has to be a minimum of 18 months in duration, given planning regulations, including mandatory consultation with objectors (usually residents), which are time consuming, especially if the application goes to "appeal".

I envisage that the batch of club license applications  submitted before the new SFA rules came into effect (1st January 2019), will have the same derogation regarding installing floodlights. 

[Robert James]

On 11/02/2018 at 10:20, FairWeatherFan said:

Chances are if any club in the North received a club licence without having floodlights, they might well be able to get in with the SFA forcing the issue. At the same time it could see a North Junior or North Caledonian club go for their licence but avoid having to join the pyramid.

It will be interesting to see whether the SFA's Licensing Committee withdraws the licence from Golspie Sutherland, presumably after a" derogation" period (lapses) regarding the absence of floodlights. Hopefully common sense will prevail, and this won't happen, and the club will retain its membership on a protected basis.

Golspie  has been a member of the SFA for more than 50 years, and as a North Caledonian League club, has no direct access to the HFL/pyramid. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Robert James
additional question added

[Robert James]

On 07/02/2018 at 13:26, Goalie Hamish said:

It sounds as though it may be a surprise to you that the Pyramid was not in existence when those clubs applied to the HFL. Since it was introduced, no club has applied to the HFL (therefore not rubbish), Banks O'Dee are the only Licenced club in the North Juniors and are not interested.

So back to the point, nobody can say the HFL is a closed shop as nobody has tested it since the Pyramids introduction.

If the NRJFA doesn't choose to become part of the pyramid, will Banks O'Dee lose their SFA licence under the new 2019 Licensing Rules, on the basis that the club hasn't committed itself  to the pyramid ?

Or as a "derogation",  will they be granted ongoing protection under the old rules ? 

[Cyclizine]

10 hours ago, Robert James said:

It will be interesting to see whether the SFA's Licensing Committee withdraws the licence from Golspie Sutherland, presumably after a" derogation" period (lapses) regarding the absence of floodlights. Hopefully common sense will prevail, and this won't happen, and the club will retain its membership on a protected basis.

Golspie  has been a member of the SFA for more than 50 years, and as a North Caledonian League club, has no direct access to the HFL/pyramid. 

I would doubt the SFA would continue a derogation indefinitely. Golspie had to create cover for 100 people in order to maintain their licence. Yes, it's a bit dubious that the bus shelter they put up holds 100, but it passed inspection. I think they'll have to plan to erect lights, although previous attempts have apparently failed on the planning front.

10 hours ago, Robert James said:

If the NRJFA doesn't choose to become part of the pyramid, will Banks O'Dee lose their SFA licence under the new 2019 Licensing Rules, on the basis that the club hasn't committed itself  to the pyramid ?

Or as a "derogation",  will they be granted ongoing protection under the old rules ? 

It will be interesting to see what happens. It's not as if there isn't a pyramid league in the area, if NRJFA doesn't enter. The HFL can't really reject applications from licenced clubs without jeopardising its status, although no-one's tested this yet. Technically, I guess, the same applies to Golspie Sutherland.

[Burnie_man]

6 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I would doubt the SFA would continue a derogation indefinitely. Golspie had to create cover for 100 people in order to maintain their licence. Yes, it's a bit dubious that the bus shelter they put up holds 100, but it passed inspection. I think they'll have to plan to erect lights, although previous attempts have apparently failed on the planning front.

It will be interesting to see what happens. It's not as if there isn't a pyramid league in the area, if NRJFA doesn't enter. The HFL can't really reject applications from licenced clubs without jeopardising its status, although no-one's tested this yet. Technically, I guess, the same applies to Golspie Sutherland.

Bank O'Dee, Golspie and Glasgow Uni all have access to the Pyramid if they want it (well, Glasgow Uni will once the WRJFA come on board).  Will the SFA push them towards applying or lose the licence?

[Robert James]

12 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I would doubt the SFA would continue a derogation indefinitely. Golspie had to create cover for 100 people in order to maintain their licence. Yes, it's a bit dubious that the bus shelter they put up holds 100, but it passed inspection. I think they'll have to plan to erect lights, although previous attempts have apparently failed on the planning front.

It will be interesting to see what happens. It's not as if there isn't a pyramid league in the area, if NRJFA doesn't enter. The HFL can't really reject applications from licenced clubs without jeopardising its status, although no-one's tested this yet. Technically, I guess, the same applies to Golspie Sutherland.

I mostly agree with your comment about Golspie Sutherland, but unlike the BoD situation, the NCL represents the north & west highlands and islands, and isn't a pyramid feeder league. So the 9 +2 (cup only) clubs can't be expected to play in the North Juniors (if/when they join the pyramid) given their remoteness.

However the point I was making about BoD was that IF  the NRJFA  clubs reject the pyramid , will Banks O'Dee lose their present licensing status, given the 2019 change of rules ?

13 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Bank O'Dee, Golspie and Glasgow Uni all have access to the Pyramid if they want it (well, Glasgow Uni will once the WRJFA come on board).  Will the SFA push them towards applying or lose the licence?

Yes, Glasgow Uni will have an opportunity to join the west pyramid if the WRJFA becomes a feeder league.  However, at what level in the West ?  Can't see the junior hierarchy departing from its (recent) stance that new clubs must join at the bottom of the league (Tier 9).    

Retention of its  SFA licence, is similar to BoD, ie could join the pyramid, but chooses not to do so  (as above). 

Perhaps all 3  of these current SFA member clubs will be permitted to retain their 'historical' rights ? 

[Marten]

43 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I would doubt the SFA would continue a derogation indefinitely. Golspie had to create cover for 100 people in order to maintain their licence. Yes, it's a bit dubious that the bus shelter they put up holds 100, but it passed inspection. I think they'll have to plan to erect lights, although previous attempts have apparently failed on the planning front.

It will be interesting to see what happens. It's not as if there isn't a pyramid league in the area, if NRJFA doesn't enter. The HFL can't really reject applications from licenced clubs without jeopardising its status, although no-one's tested this yet. Technically, I guess, the same applies to Golspie Sutherland.

I'd love to see a club test this. Also, I'd love to see a Tayside junior team apply for a license. It would be interesting to see what happens. They can't really be turned down for not being in the pyramid as there currently is no tier 6 north of the Tay. 

[santheman]

2 hours ago, Robert James said:

I mostly agree with your comment about Golspie Sutherland, but unlike the BoD situation, the NCL represents the north & west highlands and islands, and isn't a pyramid feeder league. So the 9 +2 (cup only) clubs can't be expected to play in the North Juniors (if/when they join the pyramid) given their remoteness.

However the point I was making about BoD was that IF  the NRJFA  clubs reject the pyramid , will Banks O'Dee lose their present licensing status, given the 2019 change of rules ?

Yes, Glasgow Uni will have an opportunity to join the west pyramid if the WRJFA becomes a feeder league.  However, at what level in the West ?  Can't see the junior hierarchy departing from its (recent) stance that new clubs must join at the bottom of the league (Tier 9).    

Retention of its  SFA licence, is similar to BoD, ie could join the pyramid, but chooses not to do so  (as above). 

Perhaps all 3  of these current SFA member clubs will be permitted to retain their 'historical' rights ? 

Only if the clubs in the SJFA agree to them becoming members at their AGM as would be the case for any club applying to join the Juniors (unless the SFA insist on a change in the rules)

[cmontheloknow]

3 hours ago, Robert James said:

Yes, Glasgow Uni will have an opportunity to join the west pyramid if the WRJFA becomes a feeder league.  However, at what level in the West ?  Can't see the junior hierarchy departing from its (recent) stance that new clubs must join at the bottom of the league (Tier 9).   

Life moves forward. Glasgow uni currently play in an amateur league and if they enter the Non Recreational set-up, they join at the bottom. There are three bottoms they can sniff sbout at - the SJFA, the SoS or the LL. Their call.

[Cyclizine]

1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said:

Life moves forward. Glasgow uni currently play in an amateur league and if they enter the Non Recreational set-up, they join at the bottom. There are three bottoms they can sniff sbout at - the SJFA, the SoS or the LL. Their call.

Absolutely. If it comes to pass that the WRJFA moves wholesale into the pyramid, and the university decide to  join, then where else would they start but in West League 2?

The other option would be to apply for the vacancy in the Lowland League, but that's probably pretty unrealistic.

I can't see them joining the South of Scotland league.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Cyclizine

[Burnie_man]

Absolutely. If it comes to pass that the WRJFA moves wholesale into the pyramid, and the university decide to  join, then where else would they start but in West League 2?
The other option would be to apply for the vacancy in the Lowland League, but that's probably pretty unrealistic.
I can't see them joining the South of Scotland league.

There wont be a vacancy to apply for now.

[FairWeatherFan]

40 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

1 hour ago, Cyclizine said:

Absolutely. If it comes to pass that the WRJFA moves wholesale into the pyramid, and the university decide to  join, then where else would they start but in West League 2?
The other option would be to apply for the vacancy in the Lowland League, but that's probably pretty unrealistic.
I can't see them joining the South of Scotland league.

There wont be a vacancy to apply for now.

Going forward there's only one apparent vacancy between the West Region & SoS. There's either going to be a reshuffle somewhere or somewhere is going to have to deal with a 17 team league.

[Cyclizine]

42 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

There wont be a vacancy to apply for now.

I see that now. Bad precedent to set changing rules mid season.

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I see that now. Bad precedent to set changing rules mid season.

Who says the changed the rule, perhaps they just interpreted what they had differently.

I was surprised they said 15th and 14th would face the possibility of relegation going by what's already in the rule book.

[Robert James]

7 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Life moves forward. Glasgow uni currently play in an amateur league and if they enter the Non Recreational set-up, they join at the bottom. There are three bottoms they can sniff sbout at - the SJFA, the SoS or the LL. Their call.

It is unlikely that the Uni will be sniffing at any bottoms, of leagues, or otherwise !

The original clarification sought was whether the Uni, BoD and Golspie will be allowed to retain their existing  (and longstanding) SFA Membership/Licence, as at present they are not in the pyramid, and very unlikely to be in it for some time, given the ongoing uncertainty about the future.

Is it licensing day tomorrow for NEW applicants ?

[lowenan]

Has any club received feedback on where they are with the licensing?

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, lowenan said:

Has any club received feedback on where they are with the licensing?

no news or leaks, so presumably not..... as yet