The Aberdeen Mega-Hyper New Stadium Thread

[AJF]

Maybe it's just me and I am missing something, but what is short-sighted about Aberdeen Council stating that any new stadium is dependant on the capital investment from the club?

[Sergeant Wilson]

6 minutes ago, AJF said:

Maybe it's just me and I am missing something, but what is short-sighted about Aberdeen Council stating that any new stadium is dependant on the capital investment from the club?

It's almost like they don't trust football clubs to pay their way.

I don't know where they get that idea though.

[AJF]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

It's almost like they don't trust football clubs to pay their way.

I don't know where they get that idea though.

Come on, I was asking an innocent question as I am genuinely curious as to what I may be missing.

[jamamafegan]

With the stadium already costing too much, who’s going to pay for the additional millions of pounds to add extra seating capacity?

If Aberdeen are currently unable to afford to build a stadium with a suitable capacity then they shouldn’t bother building one at all.

Maybe it's just me and I am missing something, but what is short-sighted about Aberdeen Council stating that any new stadium is dependant on the capital investment from the club?

I believe it was suggested that a new stadium as part of a rejuvenated beachfront would bring £1 billion odd quid to the city - so it’s to the benefit of both the local economy and Aberdeen FC.

[eez-eh]

2 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

One good thing to come from this is that it will put the ludicrous idea of building a 16,000 - 18,000 capacity stadium on hold. Maybe in time the Aberdeen board will see some sense.

What makes that ludicrous? Aberdeen’s average attendance hasn’t topped 16,000 for the last decade, and probably longer. Their highest crowds of the last few seasons are about 18,000.

You were on another thread saying that Ayr should be putting rail seating down at Somerset in case they qualify for Europe as well.

[VincentGuerin]

18 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

I believe it was suggested that a new stadium as part of a rejuvenated beachfront would bring £1 billion odd quid to the city - so it’s to the benefit of both the local economy and Aberdeen FC.

That was suggested by a report that Aberdeen FC submitted, I believe. Maybe the council just think it's a fantasy number. It's certainly in the club's interest to exaggerate the benefit. They're asking for money!

[AJF]

21 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

 

If Aberdeen are currently unable to afford to build a stadium with a suitable capacity then they shouldn’t bother building one at all.



I believe it was suggested that a new stadium as part of a rejuvenated beachfront would bring £1 billion odd quid to the city - so it’s to the benefit of both the local economy and Aberdeen FC.

 

 

4 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

That was suggested by a report that Aberdeen FC submitted, I believe. Maybe the council just think it's a fantasy number. It's certainly in the club's interest to exaggerate the benefit. They're asking for money!

Yeah, this is kind of what I was getting at. While there may be additional income into the economy, I am unsure whether the council would be willing to foot the bill. If Aberdeen turned round tomorrow and said we have the funding for the stadium, will they be charged for use of the land? If not, then that would appear to be quite a big concession from the council hence their possible reluctance to put up further funds to help build it.

[VincentGuerin]

I don't actually think this is necessarily a bad thing for Aberdeen (FC) long-term.

One of the big red flags in the last couple of decades in terms of UK fitba clubs ending up in financial distress or ownership strife is not having full ownership or control over your own stadium. It comes up again and again, latest example being Coventry City (again) this week.

Council funding to build the stadium was never going to come strings-free. Would it mean part-ownership (a terrible idea for a fitba club IMO), or the council getting a chunk of all revenue for years/decades to come? Both of these things come with potential problems, and the list of clubs in distress is very long.

Short/medium-term pain may end up being long-term gain for Aberdeen here. Work on the funding and get it built and fully owned by and for the benefit of the club, with no concern over a sudden Council dispute/bankruptcy/buy-out/other unforeseen issue suddenly landing Aberdeen FC in bother.

Wherever possible fitba clubs should avoid anything other than 100% control over their stadium. Recent history of the game in the UK tells us this very clearly.

[starryfish]

4 hours ago, craigkillie said:

It's not really the distance so much as the inconvenience and mode of travel. At the moment for Pittodrie you jump on a train and walk to the ground. The idea of adding some sort of shuttle bus or similar shite is more than enough to put people off.

Seems to work well in other countries but then the transport links, particularly in the North of Scotland aren’t fit for purpose.

[VincentGuerin]

1 hour ago, starryfish said:

Seems to work well in other countries but then the transport links, particularly in the North of Scotland aren’t fit for purpose.

Transport in this country is a general shambles, but this will be a huge issue in terms of Aberdeen's future.

If it is to be out of town, then are fans expected to use a (rammed) shuttle-bus service with most fans trying to squeeze on in the last hour before kick-off? Or is it realistic to put in a rail link that will be used once every two weeks for ten months of the year and barely at all the rest of the time? How will road links deal with thousands of people arriving at the same time?

And what else will be there to make it worth anyone's while going out a bit before kick-off? Realistically, you need a couple of pub options at least, somewhere for people to eat etc. Otherwise it just becomes a mad late rush to get to the stadium then back into town after. This will be important not only in terms of revenue generation, but in terms of making access to the stadium well enough staggered for it to be something people want to do on a regular basis.

Edited December 8, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[HibeeJibee]

14 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

If it is to be out of town, then are fans expected to use a (rammed) shuttle-bus service with most fans trying to squeeze on in the last hour before kick-off? Or is it realistic to put in a rail link that will be used once every two weeks for ten months of the year and barely at all the rest of the time? How will road links deal with thousands of people arriving at the same time?

Yep. Previous out-of-town plan envisaged buses from across Grampian & Tayside being called in each game with fans encouraged to stagger arrival/departure over several hours IIRC.

Gridlock.

EDIT:

Kingsford Stadium - New Stadium Public Transport Bus Strategy - #AllForAurora (googleusercontent.com)

170021_DPP-Technical_Note__Updated_Shuttle_Bus_Strategy-1539453.pdf (kingsfordstadium.co.uk)

14,250 crowd:

... 5,715 by 42 shuttle buses commencing 2.5hrs before kickoff
... 1,375 by home supporters buses
...     280 by service buses
...     400 by away supporters buses

... 3,915 by onsite car parking
... 1,740 by offsite car parking

...     413 by taxi

...     350 on foot from Westhill
...        62 on foot from Kingswells

Edited December 8, 2022 by HibeeJibee

[thisGRAEME]

7 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Or is it realistic to put in a rail link that will be used once every two weeks for ten months of the year and barely at all the rest of the time?

The idea of 'just build a rail link!' is always a good laugh when football fans pap it out, as if building trams for actual people to use daily hasn't made Edinburgh inaccessible for about a decade, or the Glasgow airport rail link has been... two decades of chatting?

But sure, I definitely reckon they'll chuck in a rail line to a stadium used twice a month for a group of people which is broadly considered a fuckin nuisance by politicians.

[VincentGuerin]

6 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

The idea of 'just build a rail link!' is always a good laugh when football fans pap it out, as if building trams for actual people to use daily hasn't made Edinburgh inaccessible for about a decade, or the Glasgow airport rail link has been... two decades of chatting?

But sure, I definitely reckon they'll chuck in a rail line to a stadium used twice a month for a group of people which is broadly considered a fuckin nuisance by politicians.

Well, yes, that's the implied point of my mainly rhetorical question.

I don't really see a good answer to this one. It'll be interesting to see what Aberdeen (FC's) next move in this saga is.

Mind you, as a supporter of a club who was once told by our board that our stadium was 'not fit for purpose' and we definitely had to leave it (spoiler alert - we didn't), I wouldn't be taking the assertion that they absolutely have to leave Pittodrie as gospel quite yet.

Edited December 8, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[eez-eh]

3 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

The idea of 'just build a rail link!' is always a good laugh when football fans pap it out, as if building trams for actual people to use daily hasn't made Edinburgh inaccessible for about a decade, or the Glasgow airport rail link has been... two decades of chatting?

But sure, I definitely reckon they'll chuck in a rail line to a stadium used twice a month for a group of people which is broadly considered a fuckin nuisance by politicians.

When Ayr were looking at a new stadium in Heathfield yonks ago South Ayrshire council said they wanted the club to fund a new train station beside it. There’s already a disused line up that way but it’s in the middle of an industrial estate and  almost no-one would have used it on non-matchdays.

Of course it’s lunacy but never underestimate the stupidity of some council goons.

[DiegoDiego]

The idea of 'just build a rail link!' is always a good laugh when football fans pap it out, as if building trams for actual people to use daily hasn't made Edinburgh inaccessible for about a decade, or the Glasgow airport rail link has been... two decades of chatting?
But sure, I definitely reckon they'll chuck in a rail line to a stadium used twice a month for a group of people which is broadly considered a fuckin nuisance by politicians.

Would a better comparison not be the Stirling-Alloa line, which has been a huge success? Westhill and Alloa are roughly the same size and the distances are also pretty similar.

Okay, it's probably unfeasible to run a line out west from the city centre, but in general I don't think a fixed link from a growing town of 12,000 to a city of 200,000 via other unserviced parts of the city should automatically be a stupid idea.

[thisGRAEME]

17 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Well, yes, that's the implied point of my mainly rhetorical question.

I don't really see a good answer to this one. It'll be interesting to see what Aberdeen (FC's) next move in this saga is.

Mind you, as a supporter of a club who was once told by our board that our stadium was 'not fit for purpose' and we definitely had to leave it (spoiler alert - we didn't), I wouldn't be taking the assertion that they absolutely have to leave Pittodrie as gospel quite yet.

Aye, sorry, it wasn't really a nip at you at all, more just a follow on as it always raises a chuckle. You'll get a fleet of shit old school busses and you can like it or lump it.

I have a suspicion Aberdeen (FC)'s next step will be a series of feet stamping statements and public breakdowns from Cormack, but we'll see I guess.

[Ray Patterson]

8 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I have a suspicion Aberdeen (FC)'s next step will be a series of feet stamping statements and public breakdowns from Cormack, but we'll see I guess.

Something to look forward to I guess.

[Leith Green]

7 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

For the rest of us

https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/aberdeen-news/council-confirm-aberdeen-stadium-plans-7905101

"the club's recent report estimated the £80million venue could generate £1billion in city revenue."

[Jacksgranda]

5 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

I don't actually think this is necessarily a bad thing for Aberdeen (FC) long-term.

One of the big red flags in the last couple of decades in terms of UK fitba clubs ending up in financial distress or ownership strife is not having full ownership or control over your own stadium. It comes up again and again, latest example being Coventry City (again) this week.

Council funding to build the stadium was never going to come strings-free. Would it mean part-ownership (a terrible idea for a fitba club IMO), or the council getting a chunk of all revenue for years/decades to come? Both of these things come with potential problems, and the list of clubs in distress is very long.

Short/medium-term pain may end up being long-term gain for Aberdeen here. Work on the funding and get it built and fully owned by and for the benefit of the club, with no concern over a sudden Council dispute/bankruptcy/buy-out/other unforeseen issue suddenly landing Aberdeen FC in bother.

Wherever possible fitba clubs should avoid anything other than 100% control over their stadium. Recent history of the game in the UK tells us this very clearly.

VincentGuerin in sensible post sensation!

[Jacksgranda]

3 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

Aye, sorry, it wasn't really a nip at you at all, more just a follow on as it always raises a chuckle. You'll get a fleet of shit old school busses and you can like it or lump it.

I have a suspicion Aberdeen (FC)'s next step will be a series of feet stamping statements and public breakdowns from Cormack, but we'll see I guess.

Dave Cormack said the Motherwell chairman told him the Dons' plans for the seafront development were the best he'd ever seen...