The Aberdeen Mega-Hyper New Stadium Thread

[strichener]

18 hours ago, kingjoey said:

The truth is that really no one knows what will happen in the next few years. Yes, it could turn into a disaster, but then again it could be the best thing to happen to the club since 1983. You don’t know, I don’t know, nobody actually knows, but if everything just stood still and didn’t try things to change where would the world be. 

The reason that Kingsford is needed is exactly because AFC stood still and didn't manage their existing infrastructure correctly.

1 hour ago, Merkland Red said:

Why's that then?

Just look at the comparison between the 14,250 example and the 20,000.  72 busses dedicated to getting supporters to the ground????   Basically the rest of Aberdeenshire will not be able to get anywhere other than to/from Kingsford on a Saturday afternoon as that is the only place the bus fleet will be heading.

57 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

I'm absolutely certain there will be a plan in place to stop folk parking in their streets. The club said as much.

Will be amazed if the club don't have access to the business car parks in the area though.

Quite a lot of fans like going to games by bus, because buses are far better.

I know AFC have approached some of the industrial site owners to gauge opinion in providing car parking but two thing spring to mind - 1. Will this result in the car parks becoming "public" and therefore require change of use and 2) How many spaces will be available if the proposed workplace parking levy is introduced?

[Ken Fitlike]

14 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Agreed with you on the last point. From what the fans have said there will be fanzones.

Your third point, there's 4 years to come up with a traffic plan if required. The stadium is not opening tomorrow. Temporary traffic lights for football games could be an option.

Of course no-one is going to walk to Westhill for a pint. Throwing in a comment like that nullifies the good points you make.

With safe, free flowing traffic leaving the stadium (should not be an issue in 4 years time), how long do you estimate a bus journey to Dyce? It's not like the next bus is going to arrive in an hour. If it's anything like the few buses they have near the top of Merkland road that take you in to town, they're almost out of sight immediately after the final whistle.

 

after 40 years of bussing in from the hinterland, I have really  enjoyed the vibe this season of city centre pints - as opposed to  the Golf Clubs or Bobbin -  and strolling up to the ground at my leisure.

As I was half the time residing in Westhill this season with a frisky lady of mature years, I was looking forward to future times of strolling from hers, a few beers in Key West, then ambling along to the new ground.

Then the bitch binned me two weeks ago.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

37 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Dyce was the example Edtheduck used.

Fans from the south will avoid the traffic coming from the north and I can't, imagine them having any issue? It's literally on the new bypass.

Fans from the N and S would have been OK if they didn't have to cross the Kingsford roundabout. Probably the worst designed roundabout in the country. A few hundred cars is enough to create back to Kingswells from the East, and back into Westhill from the West. There were no significant queues before.

As for the A944, goodness only knows what will happen there. When it's busy it can 45 mins just to travel a couple of miles.

Why don't you try it one afternoon when there's a few hundred cars on the go ( no shuttle buses!) Go out to the Westhill roundabout and back into town and you'll soon realise the problems.

[strichener]

1 minute ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

Fans from the N and S would have been OK if they didn't have to cross the Kingsford roundabout. Probably the worst designed roundabout in the country. A few hundred cars is enough to create back to Kingswells from the East, and back into Westhill from the West. There were no significant queues before.

As for the A944, goodness only knows what will happen there. When it's busy it can 45 mins just to travel a couple of miles.

Why don't you try it one afternoon when there's a few hundred cars on the go ( no shuttle buses!) Go out to the Westhill roundabout and back into town and you'll soon realise the problems.

The obvious solution is to turn one lane of the A944 into a bus lane and make it twice as miserable for car users.

[Tibbermoresaint]

49 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Aberdeen should remain at a crumbling stadium with mounting maintenance costs and no scope to renovate at an affordable cost to suit away fans? Really?

 

Who is suggesting this?

24 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

If it's anything like the few buses they have near the top of Merkland road that take you in to town, they're almost out of sight immediately after the final whistle.

 

How can this be when it's gridlocked?

[DukDukGoose]

Just now, Tibbermoresaint said:

Who is suggesting this?

How can this be when it's gridlocked?

The buses literally leave almost immediately after the full time whistle. They are out of sight of Pittodrie as they travel up Merkland road and take a left.

Then they are stuck in the same traffic that everyone else going that way encounters.

[DukDukGoose]

10 minutes ago, EdTheDuck said:

You spoke about facilities. What facilities? What will the fanzones entail? Pop-up bars? Food? Cover? This is what I mean about making contingency plans now - if it's all in place in 4 years it will work. If it's all just wait and see it won't. Besides which any number of folks on here have been suggesting Westhill has loads of facilities for fans (it doesn't).

I drive to Westhill from Dyce and back every day. The Craibstone roundabout is an accident waiting to happen during both rush hours and the Westhill roundabout is the same: hence the reason there have been so many accidents at both in the 3 months the AWPR has been fully open. I don't use the AWPR in the mornings, because the Westhill roundabout backs up all the way to the dual carriageway when it's busy and getting onto the roundabout is something akin to Russian Roulette with cars. I cut through Kirkhill Forest in the mornings. At night I blast right through to the Goval turnoff rather than the Craibstone roundabout because folk seem to think all 3 lanes are for the airport, the city and the A96 West.

The shuttle bus will have no option but to use the Craibstone roundabout because that's where the park & ride is. If there are even 500 vehicles trying to get onto that Westhill roundabout after the game the first bus will take at least an hour to get to Dyce and back. Guarantee it.

Unless they are going to build some new roads then I do not see how there will be free flowing traffic, I'm afraid. Unless they start looking at it now. Which they are not.

 

 

Facilities - the bar, clubshop, the museum etc.

All I can take from this is that you are against the location. I am ambivalent but happy to be away from Pittodrie and I'm confident in the club doing the necessary to make it as seamless as possible (expecting teething problems). I am in absolute agreement with yourself that the club need to be acting now to make sure it's as smooth a transition as possible. I'm far from a happy clapper. Kingswells was before I was old enough to understand and I did not believe there was infrastructure in place for Loirston.

The club stated they are going to be more transparent with plans going forward. I'm willing to give them the opportunity. 

[DukDukGoose]

12 minutes ago, strichener said:

The reason that Kingsford is needed is exactly because AFC stood still and didn't manage their existing infrastructure correctly.

Just look at the comparison between the 14,250 example and the 20,000.  72 busses dedicated to getting supporters to the ground????   Basically the rest of Aberdeenshire will not be able to get anywhere other than to/from Kingsford on a Saturday afternoon as that is the only place the bus fleet will be heading.

I know AFC have approached some of the industrial site owners to gauge opinion in providing car parking but two thing spring to mind - 1. Will this result in the car parks becoming "public" and therefore require change of use and 2) How many spaces will be available if the proposed workplace parking levy is introduced?

First point is impossible to disagree with.

I don't see how they could introduce that to non employees using the car park at the weekend. I park at Sunnybank school so couldn't tell you if the surrounding on street parking is in effect in that area. If so then I can't see a problem with the industrial car parks having a similar cost. Would need to see what WPL brings.

 

[TheScarf]

This thread is fucking great.

[KingswellsRed]

36 minutes ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

Fans from the N and S would have been OK if they didn't have to cross the Kingsford roundabout. Probably the worst designed roundabout in the country. A few hundred cars is enough to create back to Kingswells from the East, and back into Westhill from the West. There were no significant queues before.

As for the A944, goodness only knows what will happen there. When it's busy it can 45 mins just to travel a couple of miles.

Why don't you try it one afternoon when there's a few hundred cars on the go ( no shuttle buses!) Go out to the Westhill roundabout and back into town and you'll soon realise the problems.

I used to drive home from Westhill direction to Kingswells (until November last year) and there were significant queues some days. I still do it around one day a week and don’t notice much difference to my journey time. It was also often queued at least half way back to Westhill in the mornings when I was driving the other way.

[aDONisSheep]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, HibsFan said:

Pittodrie allows for both scenarios, plenty of supporters go up by bus and many go up by train too. Kingsford ruins that. It'll be shite and I can only hope it's abandoned swiftly.

Do they?  

This season, outside the NewRangers & Whore FC, we've had the following league attendances by away fans;

Hearts; 1,045 & 368 (1,045 is the highest away crowd outside NewRangers and Whore FCs).

Well; 261 & 223

Livvy; 80 & 142

St Mirren; 375 & 261

Killie; 305 & 611

Dundee; 337

St Johnstone; 325

Hibs; 1,015 

Hamilton; 38 & 36

Source = AFC Heritage

No matter how you cut it, those numbers do not equate to an armada of buses that need accommodating.

In fact looking at those numbers, why the fvk are there any away fans bumping their gums the new location.  They don't turn up as it is, so why the fvk would we notice if they don't turn up tomorrow!

Yours

aDONis

 

[EdTheDuck]

1 hour ago, Merkland Red said:

Facilities - the bar, clubshop, the museum etc.

All I can take from this is that you are against the location. I am ambivalent but happy to be away from Pittodrie and I'm confident in the club doing the necessary to make it as seamless as possible (expecting teething problems). I am in absolute agreement with yourself that the club need to be acting now to make sure it's as smooth a transition as possible. I'm far from a happy clapper. Kingswells was before I was old enough to understand and I did not believe there was infrastructure in place for Loirston.

The club stated they are going to be more transparent with plans going forward. I'm willing to give them the opportunity. 

Yuh...visiting the clubshop or museum 19 times a season every season has limited appeal. The bar holds 400 - good luck getting in there ever.

As for my attitude to the location I refer you to the Strichener's first point. There was no reason for AFC to move into the 'shire but for utterly hopeless mismanagement. I hope Cormack makes a difference to the way things are done because the previous quarter century prior to the arrival of McInnes was an unmitigated disaster.

[DukDukGoose]

34 minutes ago, EdTheDuck said:

Yuh...visiting the clubshop or museum 19 times a season every season has limited appeal. The bar holds 400 - good luck getting in there ever.

As for my attitude to the location I refer you to the Strichener's first point. There was no reason for AFC to move into the 'shire but for utterly hopeless mismanagement. I hope Cormack makes a difference to the way things are done because the previous quarter century prior to the arrival of McInnes was an unmitigated disaster.

I didn't realise the same people get the same bus every time. My mistake.

[resk]

Do they?  

This season, outside the NewRangers & Whore FC, we've had the following league attendances by away fans;

Hearts; 1,045 & 368 (1,045 is the highest away crowd outside NewRangers and Whore FCs).

Well; 261 & 223

Livvy; 80 & 142

St Mirren; 375 & 261

Killie; 305 & 611

Dundee; 337

St Johnstone; 325

Hibs; 1,015 

Hamilton; 38 & 36

Source = AFC Heritage

No matter how you cut it, those numbers do not equate to an armada of buses that need accommodating.

In fact looking at those numbers, why the fvk are there any away fans bumping their gums the new location.  They don't turn up as it is, so why the fvk would we notice if they don't turn up tomorrow!

Yours

aDONis

 

Right, but there's no real reason to exclude Celtic and Rangers supports from your list, unless they're going to be banned from the new ground (which I would be fully on board with, for the bantz). They travel in buses / trains / cars and spend money and need policed and parking spaces and the like. Two visits in the league from each plus a cup game against Rangers, then we also had a big support up from Burnley. I reckon the away section (1800 seats?) was full for all six of these games. That brings the real average away crowd this season up a fair bit.

 

[sjc]

8 hours ago, Merkland Red said:

Given that you get kicked out of the corporate bars at games around 6pm, I'd say it's a fair question.

You're wrong to assume that transport infrastructure will be put in place after the stadium is built. This in normal practice is a prerequisite for gaining planning permission.

 

[Green Day]

13 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

Fucking hell who knew P&B had so many experts on this. Impressive.

Its not that P&B have "so many experts" but most other large clubs have either rebuilt or relocated already. 

There have been many mistakes made - havent we all been stuck in the stadium car park  in McDairmid in the early days of the new stadium? - from which any club rebuilding or relocating now should learn.

...........or  not

The spend should be ignored either - now £50m?

Given the money Aberdeen might spend, you would think that they could reimagine Pittodrie for a significantly lower sum - and the Dick Donald is basically fit for purpose already so it would only need 3 stands.

[sjc]

29 minutes ago, Green Day said:

Its not that P&B have "so many experts" but most other large clubs have either rebuilt or relocated already. 

There have been many mistakes made - havent we all been stuck in the stadium car park  in McDairmid in the early days of the new stadium? - from which any club rebuilding or relocating now should learn.

...........or  not

The spend should be ignored either - now £50m?

Given the money Aberdeen might spend, you would think that they could reimagine Pittodrie for a significantly lower sum - and the Dick Donald is basically fit for purpose already so it would only need 3 stands.

That's possibly a good thread..... Stadium new/rebuilds - Hits and Misses.

Judging factors should include:

Matchday experience (atmosphere, local amenities)

Value for money (construction costs)

Logistics (ease of access/transportation, location)

Stadium design

Commercial viability

 

Any other factors?

[topcat(The most tip top)]

That's possibly a good thread..... Stadium new/rebuilds - Hits and Misses.
Judging factors should include:
Matchday experience (atmosphere, local amenities)
Value for money (construction costs)
Logistics (ease of access/transportation, location)
Stadium design
Commercial viability
 
Any other factors?

Character/quirkiness

[Illgresi]

4 hours ago, Green Day said:

Its not that P&B have "so many experts" but most other large clubs have either rebuilt or relocated already. 

There have been many mistakes made - havent we all been stuck in the stadium car park  in McDairmid in the early days of the new stadium? - from which any club rebuilding or relocating now should learn.

...........or  not

The spend should be ignored either - now £50m?

Given the money Aberdeen might spend, you would think that they could reimagine Pittodrie for a significantly lower sum - and the Dick Donald is basically fit for purpose already so it would only need 3 stands.

For the hundredth time; Pittodrie cannot be renovated whilst maintaining an appropriate capacity.

[DukDukGoose]

3 minutes ago, Illgresi said:

For the hundredth time; Pittodrie cannot be renovated whilst maintaining an appropriate capacity.

Not just that but a significant portion of funds for the new stadium will come from the sale of Pittodrie. 

There's also no space behind Pittodrie to renovate it.