The Aberdeen Mega-Hyper New Stadium Thread

[DA Baracus]

What's the proposed capacity?

[HibsFan]

2 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

You're seriously comparing a team from probably the richest league in the world, to a team in the Scottish Premiership?

Why can't Aberdeen look to Germany then?

There are some great 2. Liga and 3. Liga grounds there that wouldn't be costing billions to ape.

Why have they got to go for some soulless, Rotherham-style bowl?

If they insist on upping sticks and moving six miles from the city and away from their spiritual home (they shouldn't, but if they insist), then why not do something imaginative? This has all the imagination of a company moving from its city office to an out of town industrial estate.

[stu2910]

Anyone fancy working out how many older stadiums were on the outskirts of the city when they were built?

 

In the top flight at the moment, Dundee definitely was and I’m assuming both Killie and Motherwell based on no local knowledge.

 

The Glasgow and Edinburgh clubs are maybe harder to define.

 

[DukDukGoose]

3 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Why can't Aberdeen look to Germany then?

There are some great 2. Liga and 3. Liga grounds there that wouldn't be costing billions to ape.

Why have they got to go for some soulless, Rotherham-style bowl?

If they insist on upping sticks and moving six miles from the city and away from their spiritual home (they shouldn't, but if they insist), then why not do something imaginative? This has all the imagination of a company moving from its city office to an out of town industrial estate.

[kingjoey]

3 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Why can't Aberdeen look to Germany then?

There are some great 2. Liga and 3. Liga grounds there that wouldn't be costing billions to ape.

Why have they got to go for some soulless, Rotherham-style bowl?

If they insist on upping sticks and moving six miles from the city and away from their spiritual home (they shouldn't, but if they insist), then why not do something imaginative? This has all the imagination of a company moving from its city office to an out of town industrial estate.

As you're so concerned why don't you email Stewartie and let him know your ideas.  Probably not much set in stone yet. 

[sjc]

1 minute ago, stu2910 said:

Anyone fancy working out how many older stadiums were on the outskirts of the city when they were built?

 

In the top flight at the moment, Dundee definitely was and I’m assuming both Killie and Motherwell based on no local knowledge.

 

The Glasgow and Edinburgh clubs are maybe harder to define.

 

It's also a mute point in that 100+years ago football didn't have numerous other sports and recreational pastimes to complete with. 

Sitting in a soulless indentikit stadium 5 miles from Aberdeen City centre in the middle of winter won't have many suitors after the novelty has worn off.

[Aim Here]

Okay, I'm procrastinating, so I crunched some numbers. Clearly the conversation has moved on from the walking distances somewhat, and probably nobody gives a f**k anymore, but at least I'm bringing actual data to the party!

Taking the Royal Mail postcode latitudes, and the 2011 census data, I decided to work out an estimate of how many folks were within walking distance of both stadiums, using the data for everyone in the AB postcode area.

For privacy reasons, the Scottish census data has consolidated postcodes to "ABnn n" (i.e. they don't bother dividing data for the last two letters), so for each of those, I just took the average latitudes and longitudes of the centres of the relevant postcode areas, and estimated that the population of that postcode lived, on average at that position (I'm assuming that these consolidated areas are going to be contiguous, otherwise why would the Scottish census even bother?).

Then used something called the Haversine distance formula to work out the distances of these consolidated postcode areas to the two stadiums, and counted out how many folks in a consolidated postcode area lived within said distance. I'd reckon 3 km (~ 2 miles) would probably be reasonable walking distance for most folk.

With a bit of spreadsheeting, these are the results. There are of course a few people living fairly close to Kingswells, but there's no consolidated postcode area whose centre lies within 2 kilometres of the new ground (rural postcode areas are obviously larger, so there's an inevitable underestimate). Despite that, I think it's almost certain that the numbers of folk walking to Kingswells will be massively reduced, compared to the numbers walking to Pittodrie.

Distance(km)	Kingswells	Pittodrie
1	0	15740
2	0	38641
3	12032	78165
4	21062	123752
5	23702	162615
6	57632	191573
7	84192	208615
8	92466	215912
9	153558	221996
10	202220	221996
80	500735	500735

 

[DukDukGoose]

Just now, sjc said:

It's also a mute point in that 100+years ago football didn't have numerous other sports and recreational pastimes to complete with. 

Sitting in a soulless indentikit stadium 5 miles from Aberdeen City centre in the middle of winter won't have many suitors after the novelty has worn off.

Soulless? You've been to Pittodrie yes?

Near the North Sea in winter is as about as cold as it gets...

[DukDukGoose]

1 minute ago, Aim Here said:

Okay, I'm procrastinating, so I crunched some numbers. Clearly the conversation has moved on from the walking distances somewhat, and probably nobody gives a f**k anymore, but at least I'm bringing actual data to the party!

Taking the Royal Mail postcode latitudes, and the 2011 census data, I decided to work out an estimate of how many folks were within walking distance of both stadiums, using the data for everyone in the AB postcode area.

For privacy reasons, the Scottish census data has consolidated postcodes to "ABnn n" (i.e. they don't bother dividing data for the last two letters), so for each of those, I just took the average latitudes and longitudes of the centres of the relevant postcode areas, and estimated that the population of that postcode lived, on average at that position (I'm assuming that these consolidated areas are going to be contiguous, otherwise why would the Scottish census even bother?).

Then used something called the Haversine distance formula to work out the distances of these consolidated postcode areas to the two stadiums, and counted out how many folks in a consolidated postcode area lived within said distance. I'd reckon 3 km (~ 2 miles) would probably be reasonable walking distance for most folk.

With a bit of spreadsheeting, these are the results. There are of course a few people living fairly close to Kingswells, but there's no consolidated postcode area whose centre lies within 2 kilometres of the new ground (rural postcode areas are obviously larger, so there's an inevitable underestimate). Despite that, I think it's almost certain that the numbers of folk walking to Kingswells will be massively reduced, compared to the numbers walking to Pittodrie.

Distance(km)	Kingswells	Pittodrie
1	0	15740
2	0	38641
3	12032	78165
4	21062	123752
5	23702	162615
6	57632	191573
7	84192	208615
8	92466	215912
9	153558	221996
10	202220	221996
80	500735	500735

 

How many of 1km and 2km folk live in student halls, are junkie minkers or Polish immigrants?

[Whitburn Vale]

You lying awake at nite Hibs Fan thinking how this new stadium is gonna affect AFC or you!!

Down here in darkest West Lothian we are looking forward to visiting the new stadium whenever it's ready and we're away to Aberdeen,whenever that may be,spoke to lots of other Livi fans and they are looking forward to it.

Why is it in Scotland that we are so hungup on keeping things the same??

How is it we don't do change very well??

 

[Jacksgranda]

7 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

As you're so concerned why don't you email Stewartie and let him know your ideas.  Probably not much set in stone yet. 

We're building it in granite?

[Jacksgranda]

7 minutes ago, sjc said:

It's also a mute point in that 100+years ago football didn't have numerous other sports and recreational pastimes to complete with. 

Sitting in a soulless indentikit stadium 5 miles from Aberdeen City centre in the middle of winter won't have many suitors after the novelty has worn off.

Are you saying Pittodrie is quiet on match days?

[HibsFan]

7 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

You lying awake at nite Hibs Fan thinking how this new stadium is gonna affect AFC or you!!

Down here in darkest West Lothian we are looking forward to visiting the new stadium whenever it's ready and we're away to Aberdeen,whenever that may be,spoke to lots of other Livi fans and they are looking forward to it.

Why is it in Scotland that we are so hungup on keeping things the same??

How is it we don't do change very well??

Change in football is fundamentally almost always a bad thing, thanks for your time.

Why are Aberdeen so hungup on keeping things the same by playing in red?

Or is it actually the case that tradition and heritage are good things that should be preserved at all costs?

"How it affects me" is that I don't drive to away games and try not to take a bus if possible.

The last few away games at Pittodrie (despite the abject results) have been a good laugh, we've gone to the Butchers Arms and been made welcome by North East Scotland Hibs and locals alike. It's then a 20 minute stroll to a historic ground that's full of character, even if it has seen better days.

Compare and contrast that to what Kingsford is going to be, and it's laughable to expect anyone should be satisfied with it.

Edited April 11, 2019 by HibsFan

[Aim Here]

1 minute ago, Whitburn Vale said:

You lying awake at nite Hibs Fan thinking how this new stadium is gonna affect AFC or you!!

I'm sitting here trying to think of more compelling things to do than actual proper work, rather than being that hung up on this subject! Also I like crunching numbers!

2 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

How many of 1km and 2km folk live in student halls, are junkie minkers or Polish immigrants?

You might have to dig through the Scottish census data for that yourself. I've expended too much effort on it already. There are 4500 folks who actually walk to Pittodrie right now, so if we say 1 in 20 folks at the 3km mark are Aberdeen fans who go on foot, and we double that for Kingswells, because of the supposed low prevalence of students and immigrants, you're still looking at cutting the number of walkers by 2/3.

[jamamafegan]

How are Aberdeen going for the cheap option? That would imply that they have the money to spend and have gone for a less expensive option. I think the whole project is budgeted at £50 million. How much money do you think Aberdeen have? At the moment we don't even have the money to do that and have to look for outside funding. Presumably the club should near bankrupt itself to satisfy the unrealistic demands of other fans?

50 million and that’s the best they’ve come up with? [emoji23]

Compare that to Middlesbrough’s Riverside Stadium which at the time of completion was 10,000 seats more than your proposed new one. It cost 16 million. What are you getting for your 50 million other than a miniature version of the Riverside and some training facilities? It’s an absolute shocker.

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, HibsFan said:

Change in football is fundamentally almost always a bad thing

Stopped reading here

[HibsFan]

13 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Down here in darkest West Lothian we are looking forward to visiting the new stadium whenever it's ready and we're away to Aberdeen,whenever that may be,spoke to lots of other Livi fans and they are looking forward to it.

"Us Livi fans, who play at a soulless bowl with no decent pubs nearby are excited to see our team play in another soulless bowl with no decent pubs nearby."  

[Rodhull]

19 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

 

50 million and that’s the best they’ve come up with?

Compare that to Middlesbrough’s Riverside Stadium which at the time of completion was 10,000 seats more than your proposed new one. It cost 16 million. What are you getting for your 50 million other than a miniature version of the Riverside and some training facilities? It’s an absolute shocker.

 

 

So what similar sized grounds with similar sized training facilities have been built at a significantly lower cost recently then? Or are much better at a similar cost.

I've no idea how the ground itself will turn out but your absolute certainty based on some pictures alone that the Aberdeen stadium will be awful but the Brentford and Luton ones will be much better is strange to say the least.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Rodhull

[DukDukGoose]

5 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

I'm sitting here trying to think of more compelling things to do than actual proper work, rather than being that hung up on this subject! Also I like crunching numbers!

You might have to dig through the Scottish census data for that yourself. I've expended too much effort on it already. There are 4500 folks who actually walk to Pittodrie right now, so if we say 1 in 20 folks at the 3km mark are Aberdeen fans who go on foot, and we double that for Kingswells, because of the supposed low prevalence of students and immigrants, you're still looking at cutting the number of walkers by 2/3.

There isn't 4500 who walk to Pittodrie. I'm happy for you to go with the percentage you pulled from the survey for the sake of an argument but that survey was available to all Dons fans, not just season ticket holders or folk who have purchased tickets through the club.

I don't expect 4500 to walk to Kingsford. I expect loads to take advantage of the onsite parking, shuttle buses and park and ride facilities though.

4 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

 

50 million and that’s the best they’ve come up with?

Compare that to Middlesbrough’s Riverside Stadium which at the time of completion was 10,000 seats more than your proposed new one. It cost 16 million. What are you getting for your 50 million other than a miniature version of the Riverside and some training facilities? It’s an absolute shocker.

 

 

Using an inflation calculator, in todays money that's £30mish. The training facilities will cost £10m. So there's a ten million pound difference. No idea what state the location was in Middlesbrough before the stadium was built but there is significant to be down on site at the moment.

[ForzaDundee]

Here is Aberdeen's past and future average attendance (largest attendance in brackets). I have been to the future and have gathered this data which shows the success of Kingsford with many games selling out and Kingsford being extended for season 30-31. Aberdeen have formed an intense rivalry with Dundee City whose New Camperdown Park Stadium ( the Nou Campy) stadium is also due for an extension to 30,000.  Hibs are embarking upon a project to turn Easter Road into a 30,000 indoor dome arena for concerts. Whilst Hearts fans are livid at Anne Budge (RIP) for tieing the club to Tynecastle where future growth is limited and are calling for a move to Murrayfield but Edinburgh City already have a deal with the SRU to use their Edinburgh Rugby stadium at Murrayfield outer pitches (Minifield) and already move to the main Murrayfield for big games since they gained promotion to the top division in 2026.

09-10 - 10,461 (16,803)
10-11 - 9,072 (15,307)
11-12 - 9,297 (15,468)
12-13 - 9,611 (18,000)
13-14 - 12,027 (20,106)
14-15 - 13,359 (19,051)
15-16 - 13,094 (20,385)
16-17 - 12,453 (19,332)
17-18 - 15,775 (20,528)
18-19 - 15,500 (20,027)
19-20 - 15,500 (20,000)
20-21 - 17,000 (20,200)
21-22 - 19,000 (20,000) If full season at Kingsford
22-23 - 19,000 (20,000)
...
28-29 - 19,000 (20,000)
30-31 - 24,000 (30,000) Kingsford extended to appro 30,000 Seats

Edited April 11, 2019 by ForzaDundee
Adding the RIP after Anne Budge, who passed away in 2027 aged 80.