Nugent4nil Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Johnstone Burgh have seemingly failed in their appeal to be allowed to take part in next seasons Scottish Cup after a meeting last week and I wondered what the feeling was regarding this decision. Saltcoats were in the first round of the cup and scheduled to play Kilwinning Rangers but withdrew as they were unable to field a team, they, correctly IMO, are allowed to compete in next years competition. Burgh were given a bye in round one then beat Aberdeen Uni in round two. Round three saw them drawn away to Lochee United with the game scheduled for November 25. Postponements on the original date followed by the next three weeks resulted in the game being scheduled for Saturday 23rd December a day that saw Johnstone unable to field a team and withdraw from the cup resulting in them being banned from next year’s event. The rules are in place that dictate this and those same rules have been voted for or agreed by member clubs I understand this but given the fact that the 23rd and 30th were dates where fixtures had to be requested added to a large number of Burgh players who work shifts and had to juggle days on and off in the preceding Saturdays knowing their club hadn’t requested a game that day, 23rd, lends itself to meaning that in this case special circumstances must be taken into consideration. Obviously if rules are changed willy nilly it leaves them open to abuse but on this occasion I feel they should be changed. The word from the meeting is that Burgh didn’t try as hard as they should to assemble a team for that date, teams struggle on a weekly basis to bring in players these days never mind half a team and surely the SJFA should be trying to help clubs rather than hinder which I feel is the case. So basically the question is, should Johnstone Burgh be allowed to compete in next seasons Scottish Junior Cup? Anything I have posted above is, as I understand, correct but if I have made any errors I am more than happy to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 A very reluctant no from me, I'm afraid. All teams are aware of the sanctions for failing to fulfill a fixture in the Junior Cup. I'm sure with the Burgh they were genuine, I know how hard things are for them and hope things look up for them soon, but relaxing them in this case could lead to more spurious cases in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viewparker Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 What a shocking decision by the authorities. No compassion , no understanding and no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archieb Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 It's an unnecessarily Draconian sanction IMO, especially in the circumstances. Maybe a motion to the AGM could overturn the decision but would there be enough support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 You can't have one rule for one club and a different rule for the other. Either both should be banned or neither (my choice) Exceptional time of the year and I'm sure other teams could easily have been in the same position as JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugent4nil Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 The run of postponements obviously meant the game fell on a date that clubs were not obliged to play a fixture meaning this is an exceptional case. One thing that would remedy something like this happening again is the common sense approach of not having Scottish Cup ties during December and January. Also as mentioned above rules are rules and those rules were voted for by member clubs that obviously include Johnstone, I just think this case is a one off and should be dealt with on that basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpollok Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Shocking decision but unsurprising as common sense goes out the window. The game was being played on a date that regionally teams opted out of months in advance - the problem lies with West Region / SJFA IMO, as they should have informed the SJFA that all of their teams (or vast majority) that have opted out playing that weekend should then have the option of choosing to play their delayed fixture - I hardly think the SJFA would have kicked out half a dozen west clubs if they all decided not to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I dont know Johnstone Burgh, but I know his brother Chris De Burgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Sam Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Hillonearth said: A very reluctant no from me, I'm afraid. All teams are aware of the sanctions for failing to fulfill a fixture in the Junior Cup. I'm sure with the Burgh they were genuine, I know how hard things are for them and hope things look up for them soon, but relaxing them in this case could lead to more spurious cases in the future. I understand your position and reasoning. That being said I feel that in this instance that Burgh are being hard done by, in days where most clubs have challenges making ends meet this will make it even more difficult. Surely some compassion has to be shown in a this instance, common sense I would suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 11 hours ago, Seaside Sam said: I understand your position and reasoning. That being said I feel that in this instance that Burgh are being hard done by, in days where most clubs have challenges making ends meet this will make it even more difficult. Surely some compassion has to be shown in a this instance, common sense I would suggest. Hence my reluctance - in this case it does feel like kicking a club when they're down, and I would like to see common sense prevail because there were some special one-off circumstances with it being so close to Christmas, but I can see the rationale behind the current rule where if a team withdraws from that year's Scottish mid-competition they do so in the knowledge they're effectively withdrawing from the following year's as well. Hypothetical situation: Small North Region team beat a similar team to themselves in Round 1, then draw a West side at home in Round 2 - a decent side, but one that isn't going to bring up busloads of fans to make it worth their while...let's say someone like Rossvale. The North side don't fancy it, as they know they're almost certainly going out and will also lose a lot of money for travel expenses, so they withdraw. Do you allow that side in the following year's competition where they rather than a side who went the distance as far as they were able could potentially draw a high-profile - and lucrative - tie against a Pollok or Talbot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 29 minutes ago, Hillonearth said: Hence my reluctance - in this case it does feel like kicking a club when they're down, and I would like to see common sense prevail because there were some special one-off circumstances with it being so close to Christmas, but I can see the rationale behind the current rule where if a team withdraws from that year's Scottish mid-competition they do so in the knowledge they're effectively withdrawing from the following year's as well. Hypothetical situation: Small North Region team beat a similar team to themselves in Round 1, then draw a West side at home in Round 2 - a decent side, but one that isn't going to bring up busloads of fans to make it worth their while...let's say someone like Rossvale. The North side don't fancy it, as they know they're almost certainly going out and will also lose a lot of money for travel expenses, so they withdraw. Do you allow that side in the following year's competition where they rather than a side who went the distance as far as they were able could potentially draw a high-profile - and lucrative - tie against a Pollok or Talbot? Why Rossvale??? Have they ever pulled out a tie or not fulfilled a fixture??? I really do think picking a team with an unblemished record to try and make a point ( or point scoring) does your argument no credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugent4nil Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Dan he wasnt having a go at your team in any way apart from stating, an obvious point IMO, that you dont have anywhere near the same fan base as the likes of Pollok or Talbot.... no offence was intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, DanMan said: Why Rossvale??? Have they ever pulled out a tie or not fulfilled a fixture??? I really do think picking a team with an unblemished record to try and make a point ( or point scoring) does your argument no credit. If you read it properly he wasn't suggesting anything of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, glensmad said: If you read it properly he wasn't suggesting anything of the sort. Why even bring Rossvale into it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason King Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Are you really not understanding this? Its an example, a reference, a made up thing - not reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, DanMan said: Why even bring Rossvale into it??? Purely as an example. He could have used my club or any number of others, it would have been just as relevant to his point. He meant no offence if you read it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 54 minutes ago, DanMan said: Why Rossvale??? Have they ever pulled out a tie or not fulfilled a fixture??? I really do think picking a team with an unblemished record to try and make a point ( or point scoring) does your argument no credit. Maybe have another go at actually reading what I posted, and also looking up the word hypothetical? The hypothetical side pulling out was the North Region side, and I picked Rossvale as an example of a good West side that would be unlikely to take a huge crowd up north - they probably were in my mind because I’d been at their game on Saturday. Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrellburn Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Clubs should be free to withdraw from any competition, other than the league, in my view. Take the Central League cup as an example; it is named after an organisation that ceased to exist sixteen years ago, it has no sponsor and derisory prize money for the winners. Very little appeal for the punters and it will mean up to five meaningless games for the two finalists putting needless pressure on an already congested end of season fixture list. I doubt that even the winning club will actually make much profit out of it. Maybe the sub committee who are looking at the future of these competitions in the light of the increased number of league games for next season could make a start by either abandoning this seasons competition or allowing clubs to scratch from it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumphy_man Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Would love to see there decision if it happened to say Talbot or Glenafton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 On 30/01/2018 at 09:57, Hillonearth said: Maybe have another go at actually reading what I posted, and also looking up the word hypothetical? The hypothetical side pulling out was the North Region side, and I picked Rossvale as an example of a good West side that would be unlikely to take a huge crowd up north - they probably were in my mind because I’d been at their game on Saturday. Jesus. And was this not what happened with RAF Lossiemouth? (and it led to iirc a lot of hysteria on here / elsewhere about kicking 'our boys' when they were down even though most of their players would not be anywhere near being pilots). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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