Next Scotland Manager Mk II

[JamesM82]

19 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

Southgate has poured water on that Tom Cairney agent talk, and McTominay didn't meet with Southgate either.  Ignore the red-tops.

Other than McGregor and Robertson, and perhaps Matt Ritchie, I'm not sure which players would be considered by England at this current point.  Certainly none of the forwards or central midfielders.

Edit:  I don't think the full strength Scotland squad is that bad, but McLeish isn't picking the best players available to him.   You could equally add that other than Kyle Lafferty and, again possibly, Liam Boyce, not one Northern Irish player would be anywhere near the Scotland XI.

Jonny Evans (hundreds of EPL games and CL experience)

Craig Cathcart  (playing regularly in EPL)

Steven Davis

Wouldn't get "anywhere near" a Scotland team?!?

As the poster said above, NI have had relative success recently because they've had very good central defenders. They're maybe starting to run into problems now because McAuley and Hughes are probably too old now (38 ish).

[Bairn Necessities]

We need to get much lower crowds. Below 10,000 for home games. People paying to watch this shite is bailing the SFA out. 

Don't go. Until McLeish goes.

[Gordopolis]

1 hour ago, Savage Henry said:

Southgate has poured water on that Tom Cairney agent talk, and McTominay didn't meet with Southgate either.  Ignore the red-tops.

Other than McGregor and Robertson, and perhaps Matt Ritchie, I'm not sure which players would be considered by England at this current point.  Certainly none of the forwards or central midfielders.

Edit:  I don't think the full strength Scotland squad is that bad, but McLeish isn't picking the best players available to him.   You could equally add that other than Kyle Lafferty and, again possibly, Liam Boyce, not one Northern Irish player would be anywhere near the Scotland XI.

Who do you think he has left out during his tenure that might have improved us? Ritchie is the only one I can think of and he's borderline (he was in at the start of McLeish's time and played in a way that was detrimental to the team). Steven Fletcher, Chris Martin, meh. McArthur and Snodgrass (although he's been in and out anyway) both asked not to be selected. Hanley maybe is a shout as he's experience and still has years left in him.

I honestly think he's picking the best squad available. The last two squad announcements barely raised a debate (apart from the staple Liam Lyndsay shouts), and that, for me, makes things even more bleak - we're not waiting for a McPele to return to the fold and change things for us.

Certainly I'd expect that if we can get a full complement including Fraser, a fit Armstrong and an unpetted-lipped Griffiths, we should see better than the debacle in Haifa. But player-wise, for the moment, this is about as good as it gets [insert IT Crowd jumping out of window GIF here].

[Forest of Dean]

Chris Coleman as an outsider shout?

[Craig McCulloch Burley]

younger manager like Southgates of England

Scott Gemmill

Darren Ferguson

Lee Johnson 

Graham Alexander

Malky MacKay

[1320Lichtie]

Who do you think he has left out during his tenure that might have improved us? Ritchie is the only one I can think of and he's borderline (he was in at the start of McLeish's time and played in a way that was detrimental to the team). Steven Fletcher, Chris Martin, meh. McArthur and Snodgrass (although he's been in and out anyway) both asked not to be selected. Hanley maybe is a shout as he's experience and still has years left in him.
I honestly think he's picking the best squad available. The last two squad announcements barely raised a debate (apart from the staple Liam Lyndsay shouts), and that, for me, makes things even more bleak - we're not waiting for a McPele to return to the fold and change things for us.
Certainly I'd expect that if we can get a full complement including Fraser, a fit Armstrong and an unpetted-lipped Griffiths, we should see better than the debacle in Haifa. But player-wise, for the moment, this is about as good as it gets [insert IT Crowd jumping out of window GIF here].

Really don't think the players are the problem. I actually really like a lot of the players we have. We are short in areas but

McGregor

Tierney
Robertson

McGinn
Armstrong
McGregor
Fraser
Forrest
Snodgrass

Griffiths
Naismith

Are all pretty good players and options, they'd all get into the Scotland teams of the last 20 odd year anyway. Then there's guys like McTominay, Cairney, Ritchie who are all playing at a good level and not been involved as much. Younger guys like McKenna who look like they might go onto join that group.

Centre half and right back is a problem, lack of options upfront. I think we've got a very good keeper, a great left back (2) and a lot of very good midfield players. We should be doing better.

Strachan seemed to have found a formula for a wee spell but he went and ditched it away in Slovenia when it really mattered. What Strachan had for that spell should've been carried on.

McGregor

Tierney
CH
CH
Robertson

Someone to replace Brown (McGinn)
Armstrong

Someone instead of Bannan/Phillips
McGregor
Fraser

Griffiths

But we totally changed it for whatever reason. How's Barrie McKay been? Genuinely don't know but you'd think he should be involved if he's fit.

[Forest of Dean]

1 minute ago, DA Baracus said:

You keep posting this pish. Are you trolling? You surely can't believe any of them would be a good fit for the job, especially Mackay for all his baggage (that he has a job with the SFA is a disgrace).

Don't be a dick do you know who he is? 

[DA Baracus]

Just now, Forest of Dean said:

Don't be a dick do you know who he is? 

No. How am I being a dick? He's posting his opinion on an open forum and I'm posting mine. Nothing wrong with either.

[Craig McCulloch Burley]

Scotland need appoint right young manager with good experience manager 

[JamesM82]

45 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Who do you think he has left out during his tenure that might have improved us? Ritchie is the only one I can think of and he's borderline (he was in at the start of McLeish's time and played in a way that was detrimental to the team). Steven Fletcher, Chris Martin, meh. McArthur and Snodgrass (although he's been in and out anyway) both asked not to be selected. Hanley maybe is a shout as he's experience and still has years left in him.

I honestly think he's picking the best squad available. The last two squad announcements barely raised a debate (apart from the staple Liam Lyndsay shouts), and that, for me, makes things even more bleak - we're not waiting for a McPele to return to the fold and change things for us.

Certainly I'd expect that if we can get a full complement including Fraser, a fit Armstrong and an unpetted-lipped Griffiths, we should see better than the debacle in Haifa. But player-wise, for the moment, this is about as good as it gets [insert IT Crowd jumping out of window GIF here].

Hanley must be injured, because he hasn't played for Norwich since early September. BBC reported in mid-September that he would be out for six weeks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45522509

[DA Baracus]

10 minutes ago, Craig McCulloch Burley said:

Scotland need appoint right young manager with good experience manager 

Agreed but sadly the SFA are in charge of who it will be so no doubt it will be someone shite again like McLeish

[BFTD]

6 hours ago, SpoonTon said:

They spent months chasing Michael O'Neill. 

He wasn't considered 'foreign'.

Also, remember how half-hearted that was? It reminded me of that Mitchell & Webb sketch about the couple getting married because they couldn't be arsed looking for someone else. Only in this case, one party took a look and steered well clear.

[Ira Gaines]

Scotland shat the bed on O'Neill and their "approach" convinced me that they never really wanted him in the first place.

[LiviLion]

1 minute ago, Principal Flutie said:

Scotland shat the bed on O'Neill and their "approach" convinced me that they never really wanted him in the first place.

This. Pretty sure O'Neill said the main reason he turned it down was how long it took the SFA to actually talk to him. Seemed like they knew who they wanted but 'chased' O'Neill to keep the fans happy.

[Bairn Necessities]

I think centre midfield is the glaring problem. There's just nothing much there. Armstrong is OK. But the likes of McGinn and McDonald are nowhere near good enough. 

Much as he was a dick, we really miss a Barry Ferguson type there. 

[JamesM82]

19 hours ago, LiviLion said:

This. Pretty sure O'Neill said the main reason he turned it down was how long it took the SFA to actually talk to him. Seemed like they knew who they wanted but 'chased' O'Neill to keep the fans happy.

That was disingenuous. They held off from pestering him because a close relative of his died late last year (I think it was his father). 

O'Neill used the Scotland interest to get a bumper contract out of the IFA. I think his preference was to stay there because he basically has a job as long as he wants it there. Whereas if he had taken the Scotland job and got off to an iffy start, he would be under pressure straight away. Maybe not to the same extent as McLeish, but he would have been under far more pressure to deliver than staying with NI.

Where the SFA ballsed up was having no plan B for if/when O'Neill rejected them. Because that didn't happen until late January, and then you had the blow up with Regan, they found themselves in early February with no CEO or manager in place. They panicked because it all looked incompetent (it was) and they had games coming up in March. That led them to get someone in quickly, which restricted them to the pool of unemployed at that point in time (including McLeish).

Smarter move would have been to just let Malky Mackay take the friendly games for the rest of the season, and look for a manager during the World Cup / close season. By then guys like Lambert and Moyes would have become available. Not great candidates, but better than McLeish is now.

[1320Lichtie]

I think centre midfield is the glaring problem. There's just nothing much there. Armstrong is OK. But the likes of McGinn and McDonald are nowhere near good enough. 
Much as he was a dick, we really miss a Barry Ferguson type there. 

McGinn has played well in my opinion. From someone who wasn't a fan.

And nowhere near good enough for what?

The players are definitely good enough to be competing with Albania and Israel and in any qualifying group. A lot of international teams are just as shite as we are. As someone has already said, look at Northern Ireland. They have a few very good players but they've been picking from lower half Scottish Premiership clubs and English League One clubs for years

Outside of the top nations teams will be picking from a similar level of player

[JamesM82]

20 minutes ago, Bairn Necessities said:

I think centre midfield is the glaring problem. There's just nothing much there. Armstrong is OK. But the likes of McGinn and McDonald are nowhere near good enough. 

Much as he was a dick, we really miss a Barry Ferguson type there. 

That's basically true of every position except left back and goalkeeper. Yet people will rabbit on about what a good squad we have. In fact it's the weakest squad we've had since the start of the Berti era, before McFadden, Gordon and Darren Fletcher emerged.

[Savage Henry]

1 minute ago, JamesM82 said:

That was disingenuous. They held off from pestering him because a close relative of his died late last year (I think it was father). 

O'Neill used the Scotland interest to get a bumper contract out of the IFA. I think his preference was to stay there because he basically has a job as long as he wants it there. Whereas if he had taken the Scotland job and got off to an iffy start, he would be under pressure straight away. Maybe not to the same extent as McLeish, but he would have been under far more pressure to deliver than staying with NI.

Where the SFA ballsed up was having no plan B for if/when O'Neill rejected them. Because that didn't happen until late January, and then you had the blow up with Regan, they found themselves in early February with no CEO or manager in place. They panicked because it all looked incompetent (it was) and they had games coming up in March. That led them to get someone in quickly, which restricted them to the pool of unemployed at that point in time (including McLeish).

Smarter move would have been to just let Malky Mackay take the friendly games for the rest of the season, and look for a manager during the World Cup / close season. By then guys like Lambert and Moyes would have become available. Not great candidates, but better than McLeish is now.

Trouble is, even Malky Mackay doesn't trust Malky Mackay.  

I agree with almost all of that.  There's no way O'Neill is worth what he's getting paid, though he's certainly an improvement on Strachan or McLeish.  Regan did a runner leaving Maxwell and Mackay up the creek without a paddle - but that's not to say they did a very good job of trying to get out of the situation.  Having failed to get O'Neill, and then Walter Smith (another ultra conservative/Conservative pick), they went for the one guy who was whoring himself out for the job.  Ultimate job of the boy.     I'm not sure whether the timeline was right, but I'd have let that (non-racist, non-homophobic) incompetent Scott Gemmill have the rest of the year, and then waited for someone better to become available.  As it is, I think McLeish is beyond salvation.

[Savage Henry]

4 minutes ago, JamesM82 said:

That's basically true of every position except left back and goalkeeper. Yet people will keep rabbit on about what a good squad we have. In fact it's the weakest squad we've had since the start of the Berti era, before McFadden, Gordon and Darren Fletcher emerged.

I bet you Darren Fletcher is in the next squad if he's fit.