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West League - SFA Pyramid


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12 minutes ago, Dunc the drunk said:

Think that question has already been answered. 

Plus there’s no way anybody would get to speak for half an hour without be told their wrong with you in the room.  

I'm beginning to like you Dunc

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2 minutes ago, honestly united said:

There are no senior clubs in the west without a league, the SFA cant start a WoS league without an expression of interest from clubs, until that happens what are the SFA spposed to so? The clubs need to come forward and tell the SFA they want a WoS league

Although on a personal level I'd like to see a West League happen, I'm not convinced that there's a sufficient groundswell of support at club official level or maybe even fan level yet for it to happen in the short term.

If my own club aren't playing - and that's been quite a lot recently - I'll always try to take in a game somewhere that's on. I know people involved with a lot of clubs especially in the Greater Glasgow area, and to be honest I'm not really hearing it being talked about except occasionally in terms of Clydebank potentially moving over. Perhaps all the talking's being done behind closed doors, but enough people love a bit of good gossip that plans would be unlikely to be sub rosa for long.

I sometimes wonder if the hardcore pyramid enthusiasts on here - and a lot of these threads are tend to heavily feature the same half dozen or so posters - are perhaps creating a false positive.

 

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I sometimes wonder if the hardcore pyramid enthusiasts on here - and a lot of these threads are tend to heavily feature the same half dozen or so posters - are perhaps creating a false positive.


You probably answered that in your previous post and I understand why.

In the East it's certainly a talking point, clubs are talking to each other informally about it.
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46 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I sometimes wonder if the hardcore pyramid enthusiasts on here - and a lot of these threads are tend to heavily feature the same half dozen or so posters - are perhaps creating a false positive.

 

£15k min was paid to all clubs with license at xmas, versus £8k for 1 junior cup winner... where's the false positive?

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14 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

£15k min was paid to all clubs with license at xmas, versus £8k for 1 junior cup winner... where's the false positive?

I was meaning false positive in terms of level of genuine grassroots enthusiasm for the concept.  As I said before I completely understand it's a hot topic in the East at the moment, but I reckon there's a ways to go still before the same happens over here.

AFAIK Clydebank are putting moving to a members' vote which I suspect may well be in favour, although I also suspect it won't be the landslide some would think.

There is however a danger of there being communal reinforcement created on these threads - one fan from a club (regardless of how conservative the club's committee - the ones who will ultimately make the decision - are known to be) voices support for moving on here and that subsequently is quoted as evidence of sorts that that club is interested or maybe even actively planning on moving when in actual fact nothing is further from the truth.

And yeah, the Junior Cup prize money is a joke.

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Am with you on that. Had a few Bankies fans in our programme hut for our league game earlier in the seaon and they were mostly dismissive of their rejoining the SFL. Despite their current travails they were very pro Junior.

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1 hour ago, Hillonearth said:

I was meaning false positive in terms of level of genuine grassroots enthusiasm for the concept.  

Aye, understood.

Although if we're taking about a WoS league it only needs 12 clubs out of 60 odd to form it - and not necessarily Super League clubs either to make it work.  

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19 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Aye, understood.

Although if we're taking about a WoS league it only needs 12 clubs out of 60 odd to form it - and not necessarily Super League clubs either to make it work.  

For it to have any credibility whatsoever though it needs to have the majority of the biggest and best teams in terms of supporter base, quality on the field and facilities on board- there's no point in cobbling together a rag-tag collection of 14 or so sides from all over the shop quality-wise that happened to be all that that were interested at the time in order to push it through quickly - that was a criticism that was levelled with a degree of justification when the LL began...a few prime movers and just as many others who were just glad to be asked along for the ride.

I'd rather it happened in a slower timeframe to ensure it was done right - with the big hitters on board - rather than a poorly executed botch job just to get it done quickly.

 

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18 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

At the end of the day a Junior committee will do what they think is best for that club. And they certainly won't be swayed by a Pie and Bovril forum.

Absolutely - I know it'll sound cheesy, but there's a real sense that you're one of the custodians of the continuation of the hopes and dreams of people who died before you were born. 

As such it's human nature that in any decision you're involved with, "the good of the game" will take a back seat to "the good of the club" if there's a potential conflict.

It might not always be blue sky thinking and seeing the big picture - anyone who deals exclusively in those terms has probably never had first hand experience of the reality of being involved in helping to run a club!

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Maybe because Senior league clubs have had an almost closed shop for the last 128? years we'll never know what a proper pyramid system would have looked liked. It would have been interesting to see how a Petershill, Irvine Meadow, Cambuslang Rangers and a host of other clubs would have managed in say the old Second Division.

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45 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

For it to have any credibility whatsoever though it needs to have the majority of the biggest and best teams in terms of supporter base, quality on the field and facilities on board- there's no point in cobbling together a rag-tag collection of 14 or so sides from all over the shop quality-wise that happened to be all that that were interested at the time in order to push it through quickly - that was a criticism that was levelled with a degree of justification when the LL began...a few prime movers and just as many others who were just glad to be asked along for the ride.

I'd rather it happened in a slower timeframe to ensure it was done right - with the big hitters on board - rather than a poorly executed botch job just to get it done quickly.

 

A "rag tag collection"?

C'mon... if 14 clubs get together and figure out that their long term future is better served elsewhere, why should they hang about and wait for the 'big-hitters'?

There's plenty time from now until the new season to get organised and make sure it's not a botched  job - clubs will need some support and a mechanism to make it happen. Who cares if they've never won the Junior cup or if they're not in the Super League? 

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I genuinly have no idea here regarding going back to the amalgamation of the Ayrshire and central league's but percentage wise does anyone know how much it was clubs driven in comparison to the west region sjfa guys who were in position back then ?

Who put the wheels in motion and was it our clubs or the beaks / a mixture of both or the beaks themselves ?

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17 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

A "rag tag collection"?

C'mon... if 14 clubs get together and figure out that their long term future is better served elsewhere, why should they hang about and wait for the 'big-hitters'?

There's plenty time from now until the new season to get organised and make sure it's not a botched  job - clubs will need some support and a mechanism to make it happen. Who cares if they've never won the Junior cup or if they're not in the Super League? 

Any new league would do itself no favours if it was initially constituted with a couple of  big names and padded out with mediocre, poorly-supported lower division sides - its credibility would be shot from the start.

I'd rather wait until the start of the season after next if it meant getting more of the bigger names signed up - what's the rush exactly?

Not quite, but certainly shades of the LL formation where junior teams were invited in April to join in August. Big decisions like these simply don't get made by clubs quite that precipitously, certainly not by responsible established clubs with a lot to lose.

 

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1 hour ago, theshed said:

I genuinly have no idea here regarding going back to the amalgamation of the Ayrshire and central league's but percentage wise does anyone know how much it was clubs driven in comparison to the west region sjfa guys who were in position back then ?

Who put the wheels in motion and was it our clubs or the beaks / a mixture of both or the beaks themselves ?

McLuckie at Kilwinning and yer ain man at Beith were big honcho's for change. McLuckie was practically running Ayrshire fitba at the time , we had a mental 3 division Ayrshire set up the season before Super League's cause McLuckie demanded Buffs played Talbot more and didnae like paying out mega wages to see his team hammer Darvel.

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McLuckie at Kilwinning and yer ain man at Beith were big honcho's for change. McLuckie was practically running Ayrshire fitba at the time , we had a mental 3 division Ayrshire set up the season before Super League's cause McLuckie demanded Buffs played Talbot more and didnae like paying out mega wages to see his team hammer Darvel.
These guys really have to be congratulated for the change that they instrumented back then , it was the best thing that ever happened in the juniors for me , a good change at the time , maybe the time has came to change again - who really knows and only time will tell .
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3 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:


I had a look for Tom Johnstone, Scott Robertson and the other well kent names under companies house and couldnt find any directorships for the SJFA, is it perhaps run as a charity or trust or something similar?

I assume so. Their constitution doesn't refer to a company either. But at the bottom of their website it says:

© The Scottish Junior Football Association 2018. all rights reserved. 
The Scottish Junior Football Association Ltd, Hampden Park, Glasgow G42 9DD. 
Tel: +44 (0) 141 620 4560 - Email: scottishjuniorfa@scottish-football.com

Edit: They're not a charity btw, I checked the OSCR website.

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