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28 minutes ago, Dindeleux said:

This.  If you need to do overtime you are living outwith your means.  Wages should be enough to cover your lifestyle comfortably.

What if you do overtime because you like a comfy lifestyle and still want to put a few quid away each month while its going 

I do overtime and its purely so i have a slush fund every month and its growing, if the overtime vanished id still have the lifestyle i have just now, only i couldn't stick a good whack by every month

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1 minute ago, 54_and_counting said:

 

20 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Yet another story I was told by a co-worker during my time working at the large Edinburgh based bank.  During the financial crash, it became apparent that the days of basically guaranteed annual bonus' were long gone and the bonanza of getting great deals on shares was over, one middle manager went, ashen faced, to his boss and basically begged for a pay-rise equivalent of about £15,000 a year.  He'd been putting his children through private school using his bonus money and with that well running dry he couldn't afford it anymore.  Relying on a sodding bonus to pay for something like that?  Mental.

it always a source of fascination for me that people who earn very handsome salaries still stretch themselves and basically live hand to mouth.  Madness.

My work pay out bonuses annually although they are not anywhere near what they used to be.  I do know of people who run up debt and then use their bonus to pay it off and/or towards it.  As you say its absolutely mental to live that way as the clue is in the word - bonus.  You should never budget for it until you know you have it.

I have a friend who is a mortgage advisor and he told me a story about a  couple he knows who both earn in excess of £100k each.  Despite this they are trying to live the life of people who earn £250k each.  Massive house in Newton Mearns, flash cars etc.   He had already done 2 remortgages for them to allow them to pay off credit cards and other debts.   He has some morals this friend and, despite making a healthy commission from every mortgage/remortgage, he told them when they asked for another remortgage he asked them to find a new MA as he wasn't comfortable with what they were doing.

2 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

What if you do overtime because you like a comfy lifestyle and still want to put a few quid away each month while its going 

I do overtime and its purely so i have a slush fund every month and its growing, if the overtime vanished id still have the lifestyle i have just now, only i couldn't stick a good whack by every month

Fair enough,  although I would argue that if you didn't get overtime you would still try to save some which would impact on your lifestyle.

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13 hours ago, Dindeleux said:

 

Fair enough,  although I would argue that if you didn't get overtime you would still try to save some which would impact on your lifestyle.

Id also argue that my lifestyle could be reigned in a bit, i like a bet and a night out, especially with the other half and the family, if my overtime vanished if simply say no to a night out, chuck the coupons etc, i certainly wouldn't be worrying about food and heating etc

I know that a lot of people simply cannot budget, however not all of us are living outwith our means as such, i do get what you are saying though 

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14 hours ago, Dindeleux said:

This.  If you need to do overtime you are living outwith your means.  Wages should be enough to cover your lifestyle comfortably.

Not entirely true.

It means I can do more stuff than I would be able to do otherwise. I will still have a decent lifestyle if it stopped tomorrow but if I do OT it means I can do a lot more in my spare time.

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7 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Not entirely true.

It means I can do more stuff than I would be able to do otherwise. I will still have a decent lifestyle if it stopped tomorrow but if I do OT it means I can do a lot more in my spare time.

That's pretty much the definition of living outwith your means. If you lost you're overtime you'd have to cut back or if you kept doing the same you'd run up debts.

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4 minutes ago, whiskychimp said:

That's pretty much the definition of living outwith your means. If you lost you're overtime you'd have to cut back or if you kept doing the same you'd run up debts.

Doesn't living within your means generally refer to being able to afford the basic essentials and not racking up debt to pay for it. So if you have a car then its not rented/on a lease which you'd be bankrupt if your circumstances change and you are tied to a contract or agreement. Likewise, if your income changes then you can still afford to pay your rent/mortgage.

I don't necessarily think it refers to non-essential things which can be easily stopped if your circumstances change without any material issues to your basic life. I.e you might go to 3 football matches if you earn overtime but if you lost it you could easily cut back to 1 without any material impact on your day-to-day life (especially for a Killie fan :))

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18 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I disagree, it's fraud.  Stealing is wrong, even if you are stealing due to the rank incompetence of the huge, evil corporation you are working for.

A colleague of mine their told me a story a server support engineer.  One of the servers he supported would alarm at 06:55 every Monday single morning - this triggered an call-out to him and every time he'd say "I'm on my way into the office, I'll fix it when I get in".  By 07:10 he was at his desk and would clear the alert.  He was down as being on-call for those servers 24/7, every day.  He retired or took redundancy and whoever inherited looking after those servers realised that the fault generating the callout was simply an alerting flag that could easily have been unchecked.  The guy hadn't fixed it because he claimed a callout payment for every single time he was called, which for him was a one off payment of about £250 for the call plus four hours overtime, no matter how long he actually worked.  So every month  he'd get £1000 callout payments and a minimum of 40 extra hours overtime, for something that was an admin task that was easily fixable.  It'd been like that for years, he'd probably rinsed the company of six figures by the time he left.

This happens a lot. In fact, years ago as part of my job I was on call usually once a month. We had a standard rate and a higher rate for callouts, which were always charged as a minimum 0.5hrs no matter what. Any time they changed the alerting system or tweaked thresholds this would generate loads of new alerts and on call effectively turned into a night shift. I hated this as I like sleep, but I earned a lot being woken up regularly like some kind of torture just to realise it was a nonsense alert and close it off. I'd come in the next day and tune alerts or sort everything that was nonsense. But i'm pretty sure people I worked with didn't bother and just kept claiming. I haven't done on call in many years and will probably never do it again. 

Would be interested to know the financial organisation you worked for. Not asking, just interested. 

I'm a contractor and charging OT is pretty much off limits, but we'd get the time back. Time is important, so i'll rarely do OT. 

Edited by thistledo
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5 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Doesn't living within your means generally refer to being able to afford the basic essentials and not racking up debt to pay for it. So if you have a car then its not rented/on a lease which you'd be bankrupt if your circumstances change and you are tied to a contract or agreement. Likewise, if your income changes then you can still afford to pay your rent/mortgage.

I don't necessarily think it refers to non-essential things which can be easily stopped if your circumstances change without any material issues to your basic life. I.e you might go to 3 football matches if you earn overtime but if you lost it you could easily cut back to 1 without any material impact on your day-to-day life (especially for a Killie fan :))

I always take it to mean "spending less than you bring in," regardless of circumstances

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L
This friend has some morals but was willing to pass on details about a client's financial arrangements?


Fair point.

It would be a bit worse if he was naming names, it’s not like he told me his client was Mr B Ferguson.


He didn’t.



Maybe.
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I do overtime when I can basically because I like extra spending money. I haven't done overtime regularly for a fairly long time and it hasn't impacted my lifestyle other than having a bit less free income after bills are paid and essential shopping accounted for.

I don't need to do it. I just do it because I only work 4 days anyway and get double time if I come in for a 5th.

I wish I could do more tbh.

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3 hours ago, whiskychimp said:

That's pretty much the definition of living outwith your means. If you lost you're overtime you'd have to cut back or if you kept doing the same you'd run up debts.

Not really. If I've saved up money I've earned by doing OT then I go on a wee holiday or buy some new golf clubs. I don't base my monthly outgoings on my OT being there each month, sometimes I do no overtime in a month and manage just fine.

Had I outgoings that were essential such as rent, bills etc that were based on OT each month then that would be living outwith my means.

If I want to save up OT wages and go on a nice holiday that's fully paid for before I even go then I don't see how that's living outwith my means.

If my overtime stopped tomorrow I'd do just fine. I'd just go on say 3 holidays a year instead of say 5. I'd still be able to go to football, socialise, pay my bills, save and do other things with my normal wage.

Edited by Squirrelhumper
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19 hours ago, Dindeleux said:

This.  If you need to do overtime you are living outwith your means.  Wages should be enough to cover your lifestyle comfortably.

Bit of a contradiction there.  Yeah wages should be enough to have a decent lifestyle but for many in low paid jobs the wages aren’t enough.

The minimum wage is still appallingly low and needs to be increased.

 

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24 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Bit of a contradiction there.  Yeah wages should be enough to have a decent lifestyle but for many in low paid jobs the wages aren’t enough.

The minimum wage is still appallingly low and needs to be increased.

 

Those people should've stuck in at school and bagged themselves a better paid job.

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Those people should've stuck in at school and bagged themselves a better paid job.


Know that you’re probably at the wind up, but I know a few folk I went to university with that really struggled to attain a decent job after leaving. It’s not always about qualifications.
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