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What's the most "Tin Pot" thing you've seen in the SPFL


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10 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

All fans should be conscious though, that Livi/Meadowbank is a potential disaster that could befall any club, and we should always asterisk Livingston with that point.

The introduction of the pyramid system has diminished the potential of that disaster. East Kilbride could be hosting league football next year without having to kill off anybody else to make room. Glenrothes' road to the top is longer but at least it exists.

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The move to Livingston also had an aspect of councils trading their asset as the football club went from Edinburgh council that'd been housing it at Meadowbank stadium to West Lothian council who decided they wanted it and so built a stadium. That should further show you the move was not some Americanised, profit-making venture.

Sorry, but that's exactly how these things happen in US sport.
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2 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The introduction of the pyramid system has diminished the potential of that disaster. East Kilbride could be hosting league football next year without having to kill off anybody else to make room. Glenrothes' road to the top is longer but at least it exists.

Killed off suggests one club taking over another*, and killing it off, Airdrie/Clydebank scenario, Meadowbank moved and changed its name, same as it did changing name from Ferranti to Meadowbank, nobody seemed bothered by that though, so the crux seems to be relocating outside of Edinburgh, i can understand the Meadowbank fans not liking it, but strange a Hearts fan has so much ire about it, and is making shit up to justify his weird obsession with Meadowbank/Livi (not you BTW, the other fella). 

*Livingston didn't exist as an SFL club till Meadowbank relocated here and changed names.

Edited by LIVIFOREVER
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19 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I can't believe some of the nonsense I'm reading on this thread. Meadowbank Thistle being stolen, renamed and moved to another town 20 miles away is not the same as Falkirk, for example, moving to a new ground, mostly with the consent of their support.

Yes, Meadowbank was a small and poorly supported club, which wasn't really missed by many people, and may not have survived much longer anyway, but that doesn't make their murder any less distasteful. Any major change like this should require consent from the supporters, this should be something that's enshrined in law for major community assets such as football clubs. That goes for the risible "FC Edinburgh" name change too. These aren't commodities that one individual should be able to buy and do what they want with.

I don't blame the current Livi fans who have grown up with the club essentially always existing in the town, but they shouldn't be able to handwave away what the club is.

Behave.

22 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

Relocating, aye?

So, do all the Livi fans sit in the pub pre and post-match reminiscing about the old Meadowbank days?

Afterall, it's the same club and they just 'relocated'.

No because most of us didn't support Livingston in its former Meadowbank guise, and became Livi supporters when they relocated to Livingston. I've met some Livi supporters who supported us when we were Meadowbank though, so maybe they reminisce about those days.

22 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

This is o e of the most risible posts ever made on this forum.

What utter shite.

Changing the name from a works name to one that represents where the club plays is in no way comparable to the outrage that took place in 1995, and for you to even attempt the comparison shows just how indefensible your 'club's' existence is.

As for the second part, f**k me that's just the most laughable load of shite it's possible to type on this topic.

ETA: As mentioned above, however, you can't be a Franchise supporter without viewing it the way you do. You have no choice but to do your mental gymnastics, so good luck to you. Like an Old Firm supporter who has to switch off their brain to what their clubs really are to enjoy the fitba.

 

Irony alert.

 

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33 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Killed off suggests one club taking over another*, and killing it off, Airdrie/Clydebank scenario, Meadowbank moved and changed its name, same as it did changing name from Ferranti to Meadowbank, nobody seemed bothered by that though, so the crux seems to be relocating outside of Edinburgh, i can understand the Meadowbank fans not liking it, but strange a Hearts fan has so much ire about it, and is making shit up to justify his weird obsession with Meadowbank/Livi (not you BTW, the other fella). 

*Livingston didn't exist as an SFL club till Meadowbank relocated here and changed names.

This'll be good. Do go on.

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42 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Killed off suggests one club taking over another*, and killing it off, Airdrie/Clydebank scenario, Meadowbank moved and changed its name, same as it did changing name from Ferranti to Meadowbank, nobody seemed bothered by that though, so the crux seems to be relocating outside of Edinburgh, i can understand the Meadowbank fans not liking it, but strange a Hearts fan has so much ire about it, and is making shit up to justify his weird obsession with Meadowbank/Livi (not you BTW, the other fella). 

*Livingston didn't exist as an SFL club till Meadowbank relocated here and changed names.

"Killed off" is figurative language so you're really taking issue with me for an overdramatic metaphor as opposed to a point of fact. I can respect and understand that criticism but must assert that I'm due some literary license in this context.

The underlying point was not about how dirty the events of 1995 were, or weren't, but rather that should East Kilbride hosting league football next season it will be a lot cleaner

Edited by topcat(The most tip top)
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24 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

This'll be good. Do go on.

Just go back and read all your posts on the Meadowbank/Livi subject.

 

Tell you what i find really amusing though, is how you wetting your knickers about Livingston acknowledging our history with Ferranti & Meadowbank being a part of it, but then accuse Livingston of killing off Meadowbank, you can't have it both ways. 

I dare say you'd have something to say if Livingston just wiped Meadowbank's history out altogether too though, and not have it up there as part of our previous guise.

Edited by LIVIFOREVER
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7 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

"Killed off" is figurative language so you're really taking issue with me for an overdramatic metaphor as opposed to a point of fact. I can respect and understand that criticism but must assert that I'm due some literary license in this context.

The underlying point was not about how dirty the events of 1995 were, or weren't, but rather that should East Kilbride hosting league football next season it will be a lot cleaner

I can accept the controversy over the Meadowbank owners decision to relocate to Livingston, do a deal with the Council and move into a new stadium, then change their name to Livingston FC, but killing, murdering, and all that bollocks, nope not having it. And for a Hearts fan to keep banging on about it in some moral crusade is just weird, and a bit dickish (again not you). 

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16 hours ago, Hoose Rice said:

Have to agree.  They are only good for pumping Hearts in the Scottish cup about 100 times in the 90s.  Even John Martin was a scab ***. 

I'd happily greenie that bit about Martin, the c**t, but you ruined it by reminding me of those cup semi-final defeats...

As for Livi - it's that horrible fucking pitch that's the problem.

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14 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

Is it weird to have a problem with football clubs being stolen from their communities?

Some of the reactions on this thread underline my point. It's utterly weird how passive and accepting Scottish football has been of this.

What would your view have been of Motherwell at peak financial crisis in 2002 being moved to EK (bigger population, not that far away, no team in the system at that point), renamed EK FC, and having that club lay claim to your history. All fine, aye?

My guess is you'd have been rattling buckets, attending rallies, writing letters to politicians, signing petitions, calling phone-ins etc railing against the theft of your community asset. That's what Livi is, but it seems we're all fine with it.

Just out of interest do you hate Airdrie as well because what they did was far worse than Livingston

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4 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Just out of interest do you hate Airdrie as well because what they did was far worse than Livingston

Everybody hates Airdrie.

Livi seem to get some kind of free pass.

What Livi did wasn't any 'less bad', people just pretend it is. It amounts to the same thing.

Anyway, anyone who wants to carry this on can join the Livi thread, where I have asked @LIVIFOREVERto back up his claim of me making stuff up.

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50 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

I can accept the controversy over the Meadowbank owners decision to relocate to Livingston, do a deal with the Council and move into a new stadium, then change their name to Livingston FC, but killing, murdering, and all that bollocks, nope not having it. And for a Hearts fan to keep banging on about it in some moral crusade is just weird, and a bit dickish (again not you). 

Are we entitled to bang on about Rangers?

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1 hour ago, DiegoDiego said:


 


Sorry, but that's exactly how these things happen in US sport.

The US model has generating profit for owners and shareholders as the only aim. The franchises are companies and spectators are mere customers. Everything is done with remaining profitable as the sole motive, player salary caps and the rest. The problem with that coming to Europe is that local people would be putting a portion of their hard-earned wages into their local football clubs then would see profit being extracted from that by a parasitic ownership class, as now happens at eg. Man Utd and Liverpool. The traditional European model is where the money is reinvested back into the club or local community (via things like subsidised kids' football sessions).  Edinburgh council and West Lothian council were not interested in making profit, obviously, but in providing amenities to the local populations they govern for. That's why the Commonwealth games were bid for then hosted in Edinburgh and Meadowbank Stadium built in the first place. It's what West Lothian council were doing with the stadium they then built. As I put in a previous comment, it's my belief Bill Hunter was in it for a profit (although he'd deny that). He probably pushed for the move to Livingston as he thought he could create something valuable to then sell on. So I do think there were capitalist opportunists involved. However, other parties involved such as the John Bain clique and local government were definitely not in it for those reasons. My comment you quote from there was a reply to Vincent Guerin saying Livingston are "just below the Old Firm in being vectors of the American model" (I'm paraphrasing). That's very inaccurate. While Livi aren't collectively-owned like Motherwell or St Mirren, which would be the ideal, the current owners are actively promoting the "50 + 1" German-style model to Livi fans as the long term target.

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