What's the most "Tin Pot" thing you've seen in the SPFL

[topcat(The most tip top)]

13 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

When it's so mind-bendingly obvious, yes.

A football club is not something you 'relocate'. It is something you murder.

Livingston's utter brass neck (and crassness) in claiming Meadowbank's achievements is the most tin-pot thing in Scottish football. It's patently absurd.

Are you also cool with Wimbledon's 'relocation' to Milton Keynes? They even kept the same name for a year!

 

I think that, to some extent, what we're seeing is a difference in geographic perspective. 

If you ask people from Zone 2 London to meet you at Kings Cross they'll grumble about having to change at Bank but I've heard people from Fort William talk about "popping up the road" to Inverness. 

People from Livingston seem to feel as if they're on the outskirts of Edinburgh. Edinburghers think that anything past Newbridge might as well be fucking Narnia. 

To a Rangers fan that lives 40 miles from Ibrox a 20 mile "relocation" will hardly register as a "relocation" at all 

I suggest that is why you can't understand each other

[Stag Nation]

3 minutes ago, AJF said:

I just simply don't understand why it causes you so much anger. I can appreciate what you are saying, I just don't think I can find any feeling about it other than apathy. The same goes for Wimbledon and MK Dons despite some differences between the two scenarios given Meadowbank's was a much shorter distance.

I'd imagine many teams across the country are now playing miles away from their initial founding place.

You wouldn't expect a fan of a 10-year-old club to understand ...

[VincentGuerin]

3 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

I think that, to some extent, what we're seeing is a difference in geographic perspective. 

If you ask people from Zone 2 London to meet you at Kings Cross they'll grumble about having to change at Bank but I've heard people from Fort William talk about "popping up the road" to Inverness. 

People from Livingston seem to feel as if they're on the outskirts of Edinburgh. Edinburghers think that anything past Newbridge might as well be fucking Narnia. 

To a Rangers fan that lives 40 miles from Ibrox a 20 mile "relocation" will hardly register as a "relocation" at all 

I suggest that is why you can't understand each other

I think even our 40-mile distant Ranger would baulk at Rangers being moved to East Kilbride and renamed East Kilbride FC.

'Relocation', indeed.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

10 minutes ago, AJF said:

I'd imagine many teams across the country are now playing miles away from their initial founding place.

Spurs fans still moan about Woolwich Arsenal moving into North London and that was over a hundred years ago so I don't expect Livingston  or MK Dons to be let off the hook in my lifetime

[stressball]

1 minute ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Spurs fans still moan about Woolwich Arsenal moving into North London and that was over a hundred years ago so I don't expect Livingston  or MK Dons to be let off the hook in my lifetime

Plus MK Dons and the other Wimbledon team are both trying to claim the originals history.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

9 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I think even our 40-mile distant Ranger would baulk at Rangers being moved to East Kilbride and renamed East Kilbride FC.

'Relocation', indeed.

On reflection I should have said "one of the reasons" you don't understand each other

 

[coprolite]

Pretty sure some of those  on the Livi honours page actually belong to Ferranti Thistle, who didn’t play at Meadowbank either. NFA FC

[VincentGuerin]

4 minutes ago, stressball said:

Plus MK Dons and the other Wimbledon team are both trying to claim the originals history.

MK Dons have walked this back a bit.

They no longer openly try to claim the FA Cup, for example, and they returned the replica trophy to Merton Council, but I believe they still dispute the new Wimbledon club's claim to it. 100% wronguns, mind.

I find it strange how differently the two clubs are treated. I live down south, and MK Dons are a pariah. It's perfectly standard behaviour for regular home and away fans of other clubs never to have set foot in their stadium. MK isn't all that far from me, and I know plenty of fans of EFL clubs who have never been there and who never would go.

The magnificent When Saturday Comes even still excludes them from its annual fan survey.

Yet, in Scotland apathy seems to reign and we have no problem with normalising a dreadful precedent.

I find it quite dis-heartening how many people just accept them and treat them like a normal club. They're dugshite.

[VincentGuerin]

6 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Pretty sure some of those  on the Livi honours page actually belong to Ferranti Thistle, who didn’t play at Meadowbank either. NFA FC

The reasons for and circumstances around the change from Ferranti to Meadowbank are in no way similar to the formation of Livingston.

[LiviLion]

I just think Vincent doesn't like roundabouts

[coprolite]

11 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

The reasons for and circumstances around the change from Ferranti to Meadowbank are in no way similar to the formation of Livingston.

They moved and changed name didn't they? 

[VincentGuerin]

9 minutes ago, coprolite said:

They moved and changed name didn't they? 

Yes. Because they got into the SFL and their ground didn't meet league standards and it was considered off to be named after a company.

So, they moved to a suitable stadium (very nearby) and changed the name away from a commercial one to one that reflected where they played (I believe after a vote?). I've certainly never heard of any mass objections to this change.

Not quite the same as taking that club to a different town against the wishes of its fans and renaming it after that town, against the wishes of its fans. Then continuing to act as if the new club is just some natural continuation of the old one, including claiming its honours.

But then, you probably know that.

Edited October 3, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[VincentGuerin]

24 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

I just think Vincent doesn't like roundabouts

Football is dull of performative concern for the good of the game. People get all excited about Superleague, or petrodollars, or VAR, or inequality, or youth set-ups loaded to favour big clubs, or any other number of things.

Yet, your club has been allowed to slither in as a precedent that we accept that it's basically fine for an owner to shaft an entire fanbase and just take their club elsewhere and call it something else while laying claim to its history.

That's something that should horrify football fans. As a fan of a club (and Scottish fitba is full of them) that has experienced extreme financial difficulties, the precedent that we're all just cool with the predatory theft/murder of fitba clubs is quite concerning.

Livingston and Scottish football's blithe acceptance of them are a stain on Scottish football and your club's birth should be as much a concern to fitba fans as any of the things I listed above.

Edited October 3, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[The Wrong Car]

2 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

As a fan of a club (and Scottish fitba is full of them) that has experienced extreme financial difficulties, the precedent that we're all just cool with the predatory theft/murder of fitba clubs is quite concerning.

Incidentally, were you concerned with the "predatory theft" of bank funds Romanov undertook to fund Hearts, ultimately putting them into "extreme financial difficulties"? Most football fans, and I very much include Livi in this, tend to ignore their own clubs' role in creating their own problems.

As stated, I don't think the issue of Livi moving to Meadowbank is going to resolve itself any time soon, as it happened about 50 years after everyone else stopped relocating clubs and was followed by a period of reckless spending through the leagues 

[VincentGuerin]

9 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said:

1) Incidentally, were you concerned with the "predatory theft" of bank funds Romanov undertook to fund Hearts, ultimately putting them into "extreme financial difficulties"? Most football fans, and I very much include Livi in this, tend to ignore their own clubs' role in creating their own problems.

2) As stated, I don't think the issue of Livi moving to Meadowbank is going to resolve itself any time soon, as it happened about 50 years after everyone else stopped relocating clubs and was followed by a period of reckless spending through the leagues 

As usual, we get non-responses from Livi fans, as there's no alternative for them.

1) I'll politely indulge you, even though it's nothing to do with this discussion. Yes, I was concerned about Romanov from the beginning. The whole procerss never made sense to me. Enjoyed a good team, but always had doubts about him and his motives and methods.

2) It won't resolve itself. The deed is done and can't be wound back. But your franchise is fucking shite, and should be viewed by Scottish football for what it is. Your claiming of a history of another club is the most tinpot thing that exists.

Edited October 3, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[topcat(The most tip top)]

47 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

I just think Vincent doesn't like roundabouts

In the context of Scottish football club crests Rampant Lions and Thistles may be patriotic but they are  now overused  to the point of cliché.

The better crests like Falkirk, Dunfermline, Hearts, Morton etc..  have some kind of iconography of the place they represent, they communicate a clear message about the clubs identity.  With a change of colour palette Livingston badge could be any team in Scotland 

Even Kilmarnock have the Squirrels from the town crest. I don't know if there's a lot of Squirrels in Ayrshire but at least it's not another bloody lion. 

This is why Livingston really should have a highway code roundabout symbol on their jersey

Because you people love a roundabout don't you

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by topcat(The most tip top)

[The Wrong Car]

Plenty of fans, including Livi and non-Livi fans, have responded. It seems more like you don't like the responses, hence the use of "fucking shite" instead etc.

It's absolutely fine to dislike clubs for a multitude of reasons, but I'd suggest expecting everyone to follow your reasons isn't likely. The reason I mentioned Romanov was to highlight every club has periods of on-park success facilitated by off-field shenanigans. 

Anyway, lets talk about that Celtic pizza!

[DiegoDiego]

The Livingston shenanigans was extremely distasteful at the time and I still have an inherent dislike of them, and to a lesser degree ICTFC, due to their founding.

If Livingston was a better away day then I'd cut them some slack, instead it's one of the easier boycotts to adhere to.

[craigkillie]

I can't believe some of the nonsense I'm reading on this thread. Meadowbank Thistle being stolen, renamed and moved to another town 20 miles away is not the same as Falkirk, for example, moving to a new ground, mostly with the consent of their support.

Yes, Meadowbank was a small and poorly supported club, which wasn't really missed by many people, and may not have survived much longer anyway, but that doesn't make their murder any less distasteful. Any major change like this should require consent from the supporters, this should be something that's enshrined in law for major community assets such as football clubs. That goes for the risible "FC Edinburgh" name change too. These aren't commodities that one individual should be able to buy and do what they want with.

I don't blame the current Livi fans who have grown up with the club essentially always existing in the town, but they shouldn't be able to handwave away what the club is.

Edited October 3, 2022 by craigkillie

[Shandon Par]

6 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The "Pars" nickname would become slightly more fitting

That took me about 5 hours to get. Dozy Fife c**t that I am.