tamthebam Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 6 hours ago, G51 said: I can't quite believe folk are talking about hypothetical gate-sharing when the clubs are about to vote through a terrible TV deal negotiated by the worst chief executive in all of sports. If we want to talk about revenue issues, start right there. How have we ended up in a situation where we've negotiated a worse TV deal than the one we already had? Are the clubs really that scared of Sky? Are Doncaster and McLennan really that incompetent? Don't know about the man known as Cockwomble but if you'd read Private Eye over the years when "Doddery Murdoch McLennan" was in charge at the Telegraph Group then the answer is "yes". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 7 hours ago, G51 said: I can't quite believe folk are talking about hypothetical gate-sharing when the clubs are about to vote through a terrible TV deal negotiated by the worst chief executive in all of sports. If we want to talk about revenue issues, start right there. How have we ended up in a situation where we've negotiated a worse TV deal than the one we already had? Are the clubs really that scared of Sky? Are Doncaster and McLennan really that incompetent? Didn't we once get a decent tv deal but Celtic and Sevco decided they could do better on their own, then when that fell through we had to go back cap in hand asking for the old tv deal and got offered a lower one, seem to remember something like that happened. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 3 hours ago, G51 said: 1/42nd of f**k all is still f**k all. But that's not the case. I'd actually prefer very tiny resources that are pooled, to what currently happens. Worrying about the overall size of such income is to completely miss the point, and is the thinking that led to the creation of the disastrous SPL. I'm much more interested in a more egalitarian game than a wealthier one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 12 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said: I have no fcuking idea how Doncaster still remains at the top job. He is absolutely fcuking hopeless and out of touch. The deals brokered during his time have been appalling. Does he have photographic and video evidence of the chairmen of all the league clubs indulging in drug fuelled orgies? Get that cnut tae fcuk! Because he fills the role exactly as his employers want. His job is to stand at the front and take the flak for carrying out their inept instructions. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 16 hours ago, stu92 said: How would splitting gates work when a large proportion of most teams’ attendances will be made up of season tickets that are paid up front at the beginning of the season? Presume this wasn’t an obstacle in the 80s and earlier? I'm not sure if there were proportionally more or less season ticket holders in the 1980s but attendance figures include the number of season ticket holders regardless of their attending or not (I think) plus "pay at the gate" customers to get the overall attendance - this would be the basis for splitting the gate I'd imagine. What complicates things is how much season ticket holders actually paid for their season ticket taking into account discounts etc etc but it's not an insurmountable problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 2 hours ago, hk blues said: I'm not sure if there were proportionally more or less season ticket holders in the 1980s but attendance figures include the number of season ticket holders regardless of their attending or not (I think) plus "pay at the gate" customers to get the overall attendance - this would be the basis for splitting the gate I'd imagine. What complicates things is how much season ticket holders actually paid for their season ticket taking into account discounts etc etc but it's not an insurmountable problem. I think we can safely assume that far, far more people have season tickets now than was the case in the 80s. It's one of the changes in consumer behaviour that has exacerbated the inequality. Back then, gates used to really fluctuate for teams, particularly the bigger ones. I think the huge increase in ST sales is understandable, particularly in all seated grounds, but it's also regrettable. Clubs now get the custom upfront and the customer is denied the right to effectively withhold that custom as a season unfolds. Other than with the biggest clubs, I don't know why so many fans buy season tickets these days. I want my custom to be conditional. Anyway, that's a separate argument in the context of gate sharing because, as you say, the current situation would not present insurmountable difficulties in that regard. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said: I think we can safely assume that far, far more people have season tickets now than was the case in the 80s. It's one of the changes in consumer behaviour that has exacerbated the inequality. Back then, gates used to really fluctuate for teams, particularly the bigger ones. I think the huge increase in ST sales is understandable, particularly in all seated grounds, but it's also regrettable. Clubs now get the custom upfront and the customer is denied the right to effectively withhold that custom as a season unfolds. Other than with the biggest clubs, I don't know why so many fans buy season tickets these days. I want my custom to be conditional. Anyway, that's a separate argument in the context of gate sharing because, as you say, the current situation would not present insurmountable difficulties in that regard. In the short term you're right but at the end of the season your financial commitment is over and you can choose whether to sign up for the next season or not if that's your way of thinking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Does the BBC leaving two cameras unmanned at the start and end of each half because they don’t have enough operators to cover both the game and the studio count as tin pot? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Just now, hk blues said: In the short term you're right but at the end of the season your financial commitment is over and you can choose whether to sign up for the next season or not if that's your way of thinking. Well yes, obviously but the point stands regarding the financial outlay in one go. Season tickets were fairly rare in bygone days, mainly the preserve of older, main stand types (like me now I suppose). Now they've become a badge of loyalty. I think it's unnecessary. Keep the buggers on their toes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Just now, Monkey Tennis said: Well yes, obviously but the point stands regarding the financial outlay in one go. Season tickets were fairly rare in bygone days, mainly the preserve of older, main stand types (like me now I suppose). Now they've become a badge of loyalty. I think it's unnecessary. Keep the buggers on their toes. My old man and I were both regulars at Dens and neither of us had a season ticket so you're probably right that it wasn't so common then. There are arguments for and against season tickets but I can see the attraction for both clubs and fans in having them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrobell Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Didn't we once get a decent tv deal but Celtic and Sevco decided they could do better on their own, then when that fell through we had to go back cap in hand asking for the old tv deal and got offered a lower one, seem to remember something like that happened. Got that the other way round mate Celtic and rangers back in 99/2000 said take the deal of 120 mill over 4-5 seasons …. Same deal setanta had before they went bust other clubs knocked it back and brought up spl tv rangers Celtic voted against that went back to sky and they took deal off table Sky have treated Scottish football like shit since we are 22 years on and tv deal is on par with what they offered all this years ago just wonder where we would be if the chairman were not so greedy back then and tried to compare our deal with the English 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squonk Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 19 hours ago, G51 said: the clubs are about to vote through a terrible TV deal negotiated by the worst chief executive in all of sports. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Squonk said: Music forum for that pish, my learned friend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squonk Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 https://www.scotsman.com/sport/richard-bath-most-successful-era-when-gate-receipts-were-split-equitably-2474456 A decent article from a decade ago on the subject of shared gate receipts and unfair voting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Does the BBC leaving two cameras unmanned at the start and end of each half because they don’t have enough operators to cover both the game and the studio count as tin pot? No. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 25 minutes ago, craigkillie said: No. I think it does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, Squonk said: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/richard-bath-most-successful-era-when-gate-receipts-were-split-equitably-2474456 A decent article from a decade ago on the subject of shared gate receipts and unfair voting. That is a good piece, but also bloody depressing in that the chance was missed and none of the possible improvements were made. I like the link made at the end with taxation. I always like to see 'Socialist' Celtic fans on here squirming about this, saying that "competitive" sport - they sometimes actually use the word unironically - is totally different and that it's a context in which unfettered capitalism is somehow a good thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 13 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: But that's not the case. I'd actually prefer very tiny resources that are pooled, to what currently happens. Worrying about the overall size of such income is to completely miss the point, and is the thinking that led to the creation of the disastrous SPL. I'm much more interested in a more egalitarian game than a wealthier one. Correct and it’s worth remembering what a bigger tv deal actually achieves other than a slightly bigger top line for individual clubs. The goal is to make the league more competitive relative to other European leagues, which in turn allows our clubs to better compete in European competition. And who does most of the competing in European competition? It also serves to increase the brand value of the league relative to other European leagues. And again, how does the league prefer to market this brand to the world? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Good fucking christ: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02HG2wZcpYRHYKuMVyUWct4zUMaeYALXe8CChGEbb9JLztgsb81fPfJ4N7s4wWv4fl&id=107773565268319&sfnsn=scwspmo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Good fucking christ: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02HG2wZcpYRHYKuMVyUWct4zUMaeYALXe8CChGEbb9JLztgsb81fPfJ4N7s4wWv4fl&id=107773565268319&sfnsn=scwspmo Not for me 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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