What's the most "Tin Pot" thing you've seen in the SPFL

[invergowrie arab]

No more of a con than asking fans to pay money to watch and enjoy Ryan Porteus 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

4 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

No more of a con than asking fans to pay money to watch and enjoy Ryan Porteus 

With enough HIB$ tokens they might get the once in a lifetime experience of a "meet and greet" with Ryan Porteous
 

ETA: I choose not to specify in which sense the word "greet" is being used.

Edited October 21, 2021 by topcat(The most tip top)

[DiegoDiego]

This whole fan token thing feels like another way to con fans out of money.

I don't really see how it's a con unless they fail to deliver what they promise. Nobody has to buy the thing.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

8 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

58 minutes ago, NorthernLights said:

This whole fan token thing feels like another way to con fans out of money.

I don't really see how it's a con unless they fail to deliver what they promise. Nobody has to buy the thing.

It not being easy to see if it's a con is a surprisingly common feature of cons.

 

[DiegoDiego]

It not being easy to see if it's a con is a surprisingly common feature of cons.

 

Why are so many people claiming it's a con then? What are they basing that on?

[NorthernLights]

27 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

1 hour ago, NorthernLights said:

This whole fan token thing feels like another way to con fans out of money.

I don't really see how it's a con unless they fail to deliver what they promise. Nobody has to buy the thing.

It looks very much like a "pump and dump" scheme.

https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/investing/cryptocurrency-pump-and-dump-schemes-everything-you-should-know-about-these-scams/

It would seem from what I have read earlier then this Sportemon Go have been selling these "tokens" to people who are members of their Telegram groups well in advanced of the sale to fans. You only have to look at the Hibs annoucement and the amount of Twitter accounts that are clearly hyping this up.

Sure the fans might get something for their tokens from the club but there are people in the background hoping to make a quick buck off the back of these fans.

Some people might not see a problem with it but ethically I wouldn't be comfortable with my club getting involved with something like this but I wouldn't rule out our current board pulling such a move.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Pump and dump eh?

Sounds familiar.

[Alan_G]

15 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

30 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

It not being easy to see if it's a con is a surprisingly common feature of cons.

 

Why are so many people claiming it's a con then? What are they basing that on?

hey buy this thing you can get it super cheap and it's guaranteed* to be worth more later, but you must act today

Also yes, pump and dump is the usual term for this nonsense, not to even go near the whole cryptosporidiumcurrency /NFT type aspect of this trash.

* lol

[topcat(The most tip top)]

7 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

22 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

It not being easy to see if it's a con is a surprisingly common feature of cons.

 

Why are so many people claiming it's a con then? What are they basing that on?

 

The luring of small time investors into an unregulated and opaque market is something that usually leads to tears

 

 

[DiegoDiego]

hey buy this thing you can get it super cheap and it's guaranteed* to be worth more later, but you must act today
Also yes, pump and dump is the usual term for this nonsense, not to even go near the whole cryptosporidiumcurrency /NFT type aspect of this trash.
* lol

Aye, but they're not saying you're guaranteed to make money from it. Pump and dump in itself isn't a con.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

3 minutes ago, Alan_G said:

hey buy this thing you can get it super cheap and it's guaranteed* to be worth more later, but you must act today

They've been a little bit more subtle in their publicity than that, but not much

The idea that they "never expire" is a bit weird as well. "Never" is a big word

Are Hibs seriously committed to providing the occasional signed jersey/stadium tour/say in the colour of the awaykit to token holders till the end of time without receiving any more money than this one off issue.

Hypothetically would Oldco Ranger$ tokens be honoured in the Sevco era? Would Duff/Grey Hib$ tokens be valid today?

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

18 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

Pump and dump in itself isn't a con.

There may be some interpretation of that sentence where it's true but it's not immediately apparent

However, Rather than getting into a boring semantic debate about precisely what the word "con" means (in English as opposed to French) I'll post this article from the FT 

https://www.ft.com/content/16247284-e1a7-40d9-a3b8-4200f4762d19

Quote

 

Consumers need to be protected from dubious crypto investments being promoted online, with vulnerable people at risk of jeopardising their financial futures, the Financial Conduct Authority’s chair has warned.

Charles Randell, the FCA chair, said urgent action was needed to stop risky or fraudulent crypto investments from luring investors — including via social media influencers who “pump and dump” new coins.

“It’s difficult for regulators around the world to stand by and watch people, sometimes very vulnerable people, putting their financial futures in jeopardy, based on disinformation and fear of missing out,” Randell said in a speech on Monday.

He mentioned US celebrity Kim Kardashian, who recently encouraged her social media followers to speculate in cryptocurrencies.

Kardashian disclosed that her Instagram post was an advertisement but did not have to disclose that the token she promoted was “created a month before by unknown developers — one of hundreds of such tokens that fill the crypto-exchanges”, he said. “Of course, I can’t say whether this particular token is a scam.”

His comments came as the UK Treasury considers a proposal to give the FCA a larger role in controlling the promotion of crypto assets under tougher standards that at present apply to marketing traditional financial products.

Randell’s speech echoes calls from Gary Gensler, chair of the US Securities and Exchange Commission, for Congress to give his agency more powers to protect investors in “Wild West” cryptocurrency markets that he said were “rife with fraud, scams and abuse”.

Randell singled out influencers, as well as paid online advertising, as key venues for questionable messaging targeting consumers. He said online platforms — including Facebook, Microsoft, Twitter and TikTok — needed to step up their efforts to curtail misleading content.

“Social media influencers are routinely paid by scammers to help them pump and dump new tokens on the back of pure speculation. Some influencers promote coins that turn out simply not to exist at all,” he said.

The challenge facing national regulators from offshore crypto players was underscored last month when the FCA said it was “not capable” of properly supervising the international crypto exchange Binance despite the “significant risk” posed by its products.

The FCA said Binance’s UK affiliate had “failed to” respond to some of its basic queries, making it impossible to oversee the sprawling group, which has no fixed headquarters and offers services around the world.

About 2.3m people in the UK own digital assets, according to the FCA’s research. Although the regulator has repeatedly warned that investors in cryptocurrencies should be “prepared to lose all their money”, fewer than one in 10 potential crypto buyers are aware of those warnings. About 12 per cent of crypto owners wrongly believe that they enjoy regulatory protection and potential compensation for losses.

Social media is particularly influential with younger people, who have piled into crypto. More than 80 per cent of 18- to 23-year-old investors said social media had influenced their investment decisions, according to research by F & C Investment Trust.

The FCA chair said he hoped to see a “consistent collaborative effort” among leading regulators to take action against “businesses which choose not to bring themselves within the reach of an effective national regulator”.

“The tide of regulation is turning all over the world, and online platforms should expect a future where regulation addresses the significant risks they pose in the same way as other businesses,” said Randell. “Same risk, same regulation.”

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by topcat(The most tip top)

[Busta Nut]

defo a con.

[NorthernLights]

Quote

Is this a way of monetising fan engagement?

No. The Club’s Fan Engagement team will continue to deliver their highly regarded campaigns and activities across the season with the wider fanbase, separate from this partnership. However, the fan experiences and opportunities created by this partnership come from the rights Sportemon Go have acquired as a partner of Hibernian FC. They have chosen to tailor their access to player appearances, match tickets and other elements of their partnership inventory to create new fan experiences, that would otherwise have not been possible. Hibernian FC and Sportemon Go will be working with fans, fan groups and HIB$ Fan Token holders to help shape the money-can’t-buy fan experiences on offer.

Am I the only one who thinks the above is a load of bollocks?

When Everton launched their own Fan Token in the summer this was the view of the FSA.

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by NorthernLights

[DiegoDiego]

 However, Rather than getting into a boring semantic debate about precisely what the word "con" means

Yeah, I think you've got a different definition to me.

I don't have any sympathy for folk who sink money they can't afford to lose into something they don't understand.

[NorthernLights]

Quote

 

Is this a way of monetising fan engagement?

No.

 

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/hib-fan-token-on-pre-sale

Quote

 

"We are pleased to be partnering with Sportemon Go. It’s a great opportunity to work in collaboration with them to develop market leading products and services that engage our existing fan base, with the opportunity to grow a new audience, whilst generating significant revenue for the club in the process"

Murray Milligen, Commercial Manager at Hibernian FC

 

https://www.sportemongo.com/hibernian-announce-significant-partnership-with-sportemon-go/

That sure does sound like ""monetising fan engagement" to me.

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Yeah, I think you've got a different definition to me.

I don't have any sympathy for folk who sink money they can't afford to lose into something they don't understand.

If you really want us to have a discourse about the ethics of deception in an uncertain universe then that could happen








It’s just one of the experiences available if you buy enough Top Cat Tokens ($TCT) to become an official “intellectual close friend” you also get to call me TC*

Be warned the quality of my jokes may go down




* subject to terms and conditions**





** the principle condition being “providing it’s with dignity”

[resk]

Fair play to Hibs Fitba Club Club, beating Davie "Herbalife" Cormack's Aberdeen to become the first Scottish club to start its very own pyramid scheme.  

[Theyellowbox]

1 hour ago, NorthernLights said:

Am I the only one who thinks the above is a load of bollocks?

When Everton launched their own Fan Token in the summer this was the view of the FSA.

 

This whole thing is a massive money making con. It's the 21st century equivalent of clubcall. Basically pay a premium for info you can get elsewhere, but feel somehow like a superior super fans by getting fleeced by a 3rd party and your club gets pittance.

You'd have to ask, if someone external to the club does this, it is to make a profit and given the clubs already put info out, what more fo you really get that you wouldn't if these didn't exist 

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

I don't have any sympathy for folk who sink money they can't afford to lose into something they don't understand.

There's plenty of vulnerable people out there who love their football club and will trust them.

Sadly there will be people who invest in what's virtually a pyramid scheme, that cements fans to the bottom, and lose a lot of money through it, simply because the club have endorsed it.