A Photographic History Of Scottish Football

[Eednud]

6 minutes ago, Hawkeye the Gnu said:

Thanks for that.

Does that mean the goalie had to stay within the boobies and a penalty could be given if the offence happened at a corner flag? Or am I reading that wrong?

No idea although this says the goalie had to be at least 6 yards from the ball. One of the players on the goal line in the photo is probably the goalie as they used two wear the same coloured shirts back then.

Why was the rule enforced?

The penalty kick was invented in the year, 1890 by an Irish footballer by the name of William McGann. McGann was a goalkeeper himself, who played for Milford FC in the very first season of the Irish league.

However, it was a member of the Irish Football Association who was pivotal in making the idea of a penalty kick one of the laws of the game. Defenders were finding it easy to stop oncoming attackers from scoring a goal by fouling them close to the goal – the 12-yard area which we now know as the penalty box. The proposition to make the penalty kick a law was to prevent this very dirty trick used by defenders. The proposition was accepted, and it became a part of the rules as Rule number 13. in 1891. The law read:

“If any player shall intentionally trip or hold an opposing player, or deliberately handle the ball within twelve yards from his own goal line, the referee shall, on appeal, award the opposing side a penalty kick, to be taken from any point 12 yards from the goal line, under the following conditions: All players, with the exception of the player taking the penalty kick and the goalkeeper, shall stand behind the ball and at least six yards from it; the ball shall be in play when the kick is taken. A goal may be scored from a penalty kick.”

[Hawkeye the Gnu]

Still clear as mud isn’t it. The goalie can’t come out of the boobies and needs to stay 6 yards from the ball, which must have been difficult as his opponents are going to be firing the ball towards him.

was the penalty line 12 yards out or 18 yards as mentioned earlier?

And we think the offside law’s complicated.  

 

[parsforlife]

My understanding, The tits were the 6 yard box, used the same as today for where you could take a goal kick from but the measurements were taken from each post. 

The 12 yard line was for taking penalty’s from(and where penalty’s could be given) the 18 being where everyone else had to stay behind whilst it was took.  The keeper was to stay within 6 yards of the line.    Practically I would think that would mean most penalty’s would be taken in the middle of the pitch with the keeper standing just outside the middle of the tits.

When that was adapted to the modern pitch the 18 yard line became where penaltys could be conceded, a concession for a bigger distance based on that no longer would the full width be a possible penalty, it was also stupid to keep a full line when everyone took from the same spot, so just mark that spot.  And I guess the tits were seen to be needlessly annoying to mark when in practice the curve didn’t change much, so they just squared it off

[Bully Wee Villa]

I think 18 yards marks the penalty area and 12 yards where the penalty gets taken from (in the same way that a modern penalty spot is inside the area, not on the edge).

[Hawkeye the Gnu]

Makes sense. Trust the Irish to make it complicated.

[kingjoey]

On 06/04/2023 at 16:08, Raidernation said:

Duncan Davidson?

Definitely. 

[Salvo Montalbano]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye the Gnu said:

Still clear as mud isn’t it. The goalie can’t come out of the boobies and needs to stay 6 yards from the ball, which must have been difficult as his opponents are going to be firing the ball towards him.

was the penalty line 12 yards out or 18 yards as mentioned earlier?

And we think the offside law’s complicated.  

 

The goalkeeper could come out the boobies and in fact for a few years were able to handle the ball anywhere in their own half if I remember right. They had to call a "mark" in the same way they do in rugby (or a "fair catch" in American Football).

[VincentGuerin]

11 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

The goalkeeper could come out the boobies and in fact for a few years were able to handle the ball anywhere in their own half if I remember right. They had to call a "mark" in the same way they do in rugby (or a "fair catch" in American Football).

I believe keepers could handle anywhere in their own half until 1912.

[Bully Wee Villa]

Defenders were allowed to catch it and call "mark" for a while. Not sure when they got rid of that.

[Bully Wee Villa]

Oh I see Salvo has already mentioned that, should try reading the thread before posting. 

Edited April 7 by Bully Wee Villa

[Hawkeye the Gnu]

3 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

Defenders were allowed to catch it and call "mark" for a while. Not sure when they got rid of that.

Im sure that’s what Considine of St Johnstone tried against us a few weeks ago. Ref thought it was ok apparently.

Edited April 7 by Hawkeye the Gnu

[kingjoey]

On 06/04/2023 at 15:45, AyrshireTon said:

Aberdeen v Morton in the Quarter Final of the Scottish Cup in 1978.

Not sure who the airborne Dons player is, but the others are George Anderson, Drew Jarvie and Tommy Veitch.

Both Andy Ritchie and John Goldthorp scored in injury time to give us a 2-2 draw and a replay at Cappielow.

This is from that replay, which the Dons won 2-1. No breathing space in the Cowshed.

This was the first Morton game which my dad and I attended and we were hooked from that moment.

We'd go on to win the 1st division at the end of that season.

The replay is one of my most "memorable" matches. I was working in Lochee at the time and had worked out how to get into the centre of Dundee, get a train to Glasgow and catch a train to Cartsdyke to make the kick off. Then I had to meet my mate in the ground and stay with him overnight and catch the first train to Dundee in the morning. Got to the station, found out the train was about 20 minutes late, had to decide whether it was worth getting on the late train and stupidly did. Ended up at Cappielow 30 minutes after kick off and despite banging on every door I could find couldn't find anyone to let me in. Hung about, got in with 15 minutes left when they opened the gates and I think I missed all of the goals. 200 mile or so round trip to see 15 minutes of football. At least I got in for nothing.

[tamthebam]

8 hours ago, Eednud said:

No idea although this says the goalie had to be at least 6 yards from the ball. One of the players on the goal line in the photo is probably the goalie as they used two wear the same coloured shirts back then.

Why was the rule enforced?

The penalty kick was invented in the year, 1890 by an Irish footballer by the name of William McGann. McGann was a goalkeeper himself, who played for Milford FC in the very first season of the Irish league.

However, it was a member of the Irish Football Association who was pivotal in making the idea of a penalty kick one of the laws of the game. Defenders were finding it easy to stop oncoming attackers from scoring a goal by fouling them close to the goal – the 12-yard area which we now know as the penalty box. The proposition to make the penalty kick a law was to prevent this very dirty trick used by defenders. The proposition was accepted, and it became a part of the rules as Rule number 13. in 1891. The law read:

“If any player shall intentionally trip or hold an opposing player, or deliberately handle the ball within twelve yards from his own goal line, the referee shall, on appeal, award the opposing side a penalty kick, to be taken from any point 12 yards from the goal line, under the following conditions: All players, with the exception of the player taking the penalty kick and the goalkeeper, shall stand behind the ball and at least six yards from it; the ball shall be in play when the kick is taken. A goal may be scored from a penalty kick.”

I've got an old Sunday Post cutting from c.1990 that says the first penalty kick in Scotland was scored at Bank Park, Leith Athletic's ground (roughly where the present Leith Academy is now). However I've read elsewhere that this is bollocks. 

Oh my, isn't it awffy? If you can't trust the Sunday Post who can you trust? 

[Otis Blue]

14 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

I believe keepers could handle anywhere in their own half until 1912.

... but ... most evening games don't start until 19:45 ...

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

... but ... most evening games don't start until 19:45 ...

Not back in 19oatcake, no lights.

[Jacksgranda]

13 hours ago, tamthebam said:

I've got an old Sunday Post cutting from c.1990 that says the first penalty kick in Scotland was scored at Bank Park, Leith Athletic's ground (roughly where the present Leith Academy is now). However I've read elsewhere that this is bollocks. 

Oh my, isn't it awffy? If you can't trust the Sunday Post who can you trust? 

You certainly didn't read that in the Sunday Post...

[bluearmyfaction]

23 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

Defenders were allowed to catch it and call "mark" for a while. Not sure when they got rid of that.

February 1866.  Almost certainly to make the game more different from rugby.

Although they went a bit far and banned ANY use of hands.  The goalkeeper was only allowed to handle the ball in 1871.

[Eednud]

Fife born Joe Watson in action for Sydney City Hakoah possibly in the old NSL against Marconi Fairfield. Joe started at Nottingham Forest then moved to Dundee United in 1970 playing 8 first team games up to 1973 then moved to Forfar Athletic the same year playing 33 games and scoring 4 goals. Busy year as he then moved to Sydney and from 1973 to 1986 played for Sydney Hakoah/Eastern Suburbs/Sydney City (all the same team which still exists as Maccabi Hakoah Sydney City East). He was capped 17 times (2 goals) for the Socceroos including the first leg of the WC play-off against Scotland at Hampden in 1985. He sadly was only 48 when he died of liver cancer in 2000.

 

[Specky Ginger]

The last Cowdenbeath team, resplendent in their away strips, to play in the top flight of Scottish football.

[Specky Ginger]

Meadowbank Thistle (either 86/87 or 87/88 given Darren Jackson is in the photo).