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A Photographic History Of Scottish Football


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On 22/11/2021 at 16:10, HibeeJibee said:

Monday 2nd January 1950
...
Across both divisions over 370,00 people attended games i.e. about 1 in every 14 people (men women & children) in the whole nation. It could have been more had the Old Firm derby been at Ibrox and bear in mind Aberdeen were at Dundee, Raith were at East Fife plus Hamilton/Motherwell and Morton/St Mirren were in different divisions, so played each other not their derby. Allow for those parts of the north and south beyond reach of a game and it's astonishing. Plus most would be men & boys.

A Division
65,840     Hibs v Hearts
65,000     Celtic v Rangers
35,000     St Mirren v Motherwell
32,000     Dundee v Aberdeen
30,000     Partick v Clyde
22,515     East Fife v Raith
15,000     Falkirk v Stirling Albion
15,000     Third Lanark v Queen of the South

B Division
23,520     Kilmarnock v Ayr
18,000     Hamilton v Morton
12,000     St Johnstone v Dundee United
11,000     Airdrie v Albion Rovers
10,000     Dunfermline v Cowdenbeath
   7,000     Forfar v Arbroath
   6,000     Dumbarton v Queen's Park
   4,000     Alloa v Stenhousemuir

C Division
unknown     Aberdeen B v Montrose

Those were the New Year derby crowds of Monday 2nd January 1950, that may well have been the or certainly among the best attended ever - indeed Hibs and East Fife set all-time record attendances.

Here are the crowds from 70yrs ago Thursday 1st January 1953 i.e. 3yrs later. Notable how much they had dropped:

A Division
73,000     Rangers v Celtic                 
Celtic v Rangers in 1950 = 65,000
41,085     Hearts v Hibs                       Hibs v Hearts in 1950 = 65,840
21,000     Aberdeen v Dundee        Dundee v Aberdeen in 1950 = 32,000
20,000     Raith v East Fife                 East Fife v Raith in 1950 = 22,515
19,000     Motherwell v Airdrie
14,000     Clyde v Partick                   
Partick v Clyde in 1950 = 30,000
10,000     Falkirk v Third Lanark
10,000     Queen of the South v St Mirren

B Division
18,500     Ayr v Kilmarnock                                
Kilmarnock v Ayr in 1950 = 23,520
   8,000     Dundee Utd v St Johnstone         St Johnstone v Dundee Utd in 1950 = 12,000
   6,000     Morton v Stirling Albion
   5,000     Dunfermline v Cowdenbeath     
same fixture in 1950 = 10,000
   4,886     Queen's Park v Dumbarton         Dumbarton v Queen's Park in 1950 = 6,000
   4,000     Albion Rovers v Hamilton
   2,500     Alloa v Stenhousemuir                   
Stenhousemuir v Alloa in 1950 = 4,000
   2,500     Forfar v Arbroath                              same fixture in 1950 = 7,000

C Division
unknown     Berwick v Dunfermline B
unknown     Brechin v Montrose
unknown     St Mirren B v Queen of the South B

Edited by HibeeJibee
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13 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

These stadiums are products of their time: move to all seaters after disasters, and visions for 10k rule from 1990 that was formalised in 1994 then codified by SPL in 1998.

e.g. a
part from open ends at Forthbank, did anybody incorporate terraces into new or substantially rebuilt grounds?

Can’t think of any in Scotland as you say it was a sign of the era that most of them were seated.

Don’t know if the story is true but I heard that the terrace at Stirling was added after it was deemed too small a capacity to get a grant,

Down south Chester City built a ground similar to Stirling (same architect as Stirling and Livingston).

Its a bit better as they have covered terrace behind both goals.

Also down south Exeter rebuilt  their home end terrace.

Although you have to go further down the pyramid for more examples.

You get a better mix of seats and standing at the new build Rugby League grounds.

 

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15 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It's not just location though is it, although that's a huge part of it?

I know that it's facile to eulogise about appalling toilets and crumbling steps, but the fact is that grounds were distinct then, they catered for their numbers, they gave supporters choice and they were indeed better located in the main.

I know that finances -that God to whom we must bow regarding simply everything - meant that selling up and moving made sense.  However, measuring what s been lost against what's been gained must feel sobering.

Some have sold up but have yet to replace.

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15 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

These stadiums are products of their time: move to all seaters after disasters, and visions for 10k rule from 1990 that was formalised in 1994 then codified by SPL in 1998.

e.g. a
part from open ends at Forthbank, did anybody incorporate terraces into new or substantially rebuilt grounds?

ICT and County surely? ICT had terracing on 3 sides in a newbuild between 1996 and 2005, and the away end at County was very similar to Forthbank.

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15 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

These stadiums are products of their time: move to all seaters after disasters, and visions for 10k rule from 1990 that was formalised in 1994 then codified by SPL in 1998.

e.g. a
part from open ends at Forthbank, did anybody incorporate terraces into new or substantially rebuilt grounds?

technically Spartans with that grass banking....

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59 minutes ago, The Mantis said:

ICT and County surely? ICT had terracing on 3 sides in a newbuild between 1996 and 2005, and the away end at County was very similar to Forthbank.

ICT granted: forgot they'd some terrace where they later installed seats/put up end stands.

RC: was that open end done in 1990s?

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32 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

ICT granted: forgot they'd some terrace where they later installed seats/put up end stands.

RC: was that open end done in 1990s?

It was. I was there in their first SFL season.

Back then it consisted of the main stand (shorter than it is now), the covered and stepped Jail End which remained the same for many years.

The side opposite the stand was an earth banking which was eventually replaced with a new stand, while the far end was also earth banking before it was stepped.

They done a lot of work in a short time.

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5 minutes ago, Dirty Sanchez said:

I remember going to pre-season friendlies on back-to-back Saturdays at Inverness and Dingwall prior to the first SFL season.

Inverness were still at Telford Street and away fans at Dingwall stood on a grass slope, opposite the main stand, towards the jail end.

That rings a bell. 

When Rovers played Ross County in the league cup in 1994, the away end terrace was newly built.

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15 hours ago, Flybhoy said:

Has to be a fake surely.... no one can be that fucking thick? 🤦‍♂️😂

Campbell was asked about this recently on his podcast.

He said he couldn't remember it, but wasn't full of denials either.

 

To be honest, despite being a bit wacky, it doesn't strike me as the worst idea.  He recognises the roles of the two clubs in fostering festering sectarianism.

  That asking them to make positive moves in the opposite direction meets such immediate scorn is perhaps disappointing, but also realistic.  As if those clubs would actively support steps towards eradicating a malignancy that serves them so well.

Edited by Monkey Tennis
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On 28/12/2022 at 23:05, Monkey Tennis said:

It's not just location though is it, although that's a huge part of it?

I know that it's facile to eulogise about appalling toilets and crumbling steps, but the fact is that grounds were distinct then, they catered for their numbers, they gave supporters choice and they were indeed better located in the main.

I know that finances -that God to whom we must bow regarding simply everything - meant that selling up and moving made sense.  However, measuring what s been lost against what's been gained must feel sobering.

While a lot of the old grounds had character, what was also true is that most were completely crumbling after decades of neglect and at best, could have limped on for a few years, before becoming Cliftonhill esque. Brockville, Muirton, Bayview and Boghead had all become deathtraps. Folk bang on (rightly) about Somerset having old school characther etc, but don't forget it had a main stand expansion at around the same time a lot of these ground were being closed and has had some work done over the years.

What is a crime is how badly new stadiums have been built. No originality whatsoever in most, but generally half arsed and cheap. Look all over Europe and you see high quality stadiums for clubs the size of many of ours, but we are left with relics and crumbling new builds.

We all have nostalgia about the old grounds now lost and moan about soulless out of town grounds, but almost all grounds were built on the edge of town before the town grows around them. The 'new' ones will do the same. McDiarmid park being a prime example. When built, it was right on the edge of Perth. In last 5-10 years, the edge of Perth has grown way beyond where it is, to the extent, it is now as close to the edge as Muirton was in its heyday.

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On 30/11/2022 at 19:12, buchan30 said:

 


It is strange to think of replays being played during the day, on weekdays. Especially considering that it was started as a sport for people who worked a half day on a Saturday and probably worked 9-5 during the week. I remember my dad telling me about bunking off school to go to a midweek, during the day replay between Raith and possibly Morton.

 

1974.

Finished 2-2 at Starks Park on Sunday 29th January, 0-0 (after extra time) at Cappielow on the Tuesday and Morton won 1-0 at Tynecastle on Sunday February 3rd, with both clubs having played league games on Saturday 2nd.

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11 minutes ago, AyrshireTon said:

1974.

Finished 2-2 at Starks Park on Sunday 29th January, 0-0 (after extra time) at Cappielow on the Tuesday and Morton won 1-0 at Tynecastle on Sunday February 3rd, with both clubs having played league games on Saturday 2nd.

Due to Three Day Week.

Sunday matches during state of emergency:

image.png.83c0a866e5e4bc0f3151cf754246984a.png

image.png.0d9f35023c8bb9e40d22338b4109073c.png
Morton and Raith played league games on Saturday 2nd February

image.png.0f25879115d401a5c63dcc4ac869a6dd.png

image.png.0509cdc46e9b4cf288fefc67e7a11930.png

image.png.2bf579f9d80047a253ae90ca128b1990.png

image.png.12b80696b70ae98cb197f6043b648156.png

image.png.7951229e91fdc0e898dec8c3d34c90e2.png

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