A Photographic History Of Scottish Football

[TxRover]

On 20/12/2022 at 05:24, Jacksgranda said:

After the war the Scottish League was reorganised, and reduced in size from the prewar divisions, leading to a number of clubs being excluded. These clubs were accommodated in a third division along with some reserve sides of bigger clubs.

However, memories of the didastrous third division of the late 1920s still lingered, so the division were named A, B & C,  rather than 1, 2 & 3, and no, they are not "conferences".

The C division cratered in 1955 when the reserve sides were withdrawn. They promoted the top 5 C division teams, and for 1956 renamed it to Divisions 1 and 2.

[Jacksgranda]

2 minutes ago, TxRover said:

The C division cratered in 1955 when the reserve sides were withdrawn. They promoted the top 5 C division teams, and for 1956 renamed it to Divisions 1 and 2.

They weren't withdrawn, the league was reorganised - again - the 5 non reserve sides still playing i.e. no Leith Athletic, returned to the fold in an extended Division Two. Division One increased to 18 from 16, Division Two had 19 (16 - 2, promoted to Division One = 14, + 5 = 19.)

[Jacksgranda]

http://www.neilbrown.newcastlefans.com/CDivision.html

This explains all the shenanigins in some detail.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

1 hour ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Photographs from the boys' publication 'Pals Magazine', season 1922-23, 100 years ago.

Like these one colour jerseys much better than many of today's styles. Dundee finished that season with a tour of Spain, beating Real Madrid before losing to Barcelona.

Celtic won the Scottish Cup in 1922-23. Willie Crilly had signed from Alloa Athletic at the end of the previous season, having scored an incredible 49 goals to help the Wasps to promotion. But he quickly returned to the Recs, moving back to Alloa in September the same year. He then left for the USA, and played for a large number of clubs well into the 1930s.

The Bairns signed Syd Puddefoot for a world record transfer fee from West Ham United in February 1922, and he helped them to a very creditable 4th place in 1922-23. He'd previously played for Falkirk during the Great War, as he was stationed near Stirling. Also a very good cricketer, turing out for Essex, after his playing career ended he coached Fenerbache and Galatasaray in Turkey. 

Sporting a gold and black outfit, Aberdeen ended in fifth place 100 years ago, with John Miller, who was signed from Liverpool, scoring 25 league goals. The AFC Heritage site has that as a record for a Dons player in a single season. Surprised to read that, always thought wee Joe Harper would be that man.

I've been helping out the Falkirk Football Heritage Trust guys with some transcription, and I've been working on the years 1920 to 1928 so far. The club minutes surrounding the Puddefoot transfer (and believe me, a multitude of other topics) are absolutely amazing reading. A real glimpse into another world. They will be published online soonish, and I thoroughly recommend them to anyone with an interest in the history of the game, which is of course most of us regular dwellers on this thread.

Tommy Townsley in that photo was a great servant to the club as a ball playing centre half, and deserved a presumably much better paid move to Leeds in 1926 or so. He came back up the road a few years later and ended up managing Peterhead.

Aptly for the "Pals" series, William Moore (outside left from NI) was nicknamed "Pal".

I love wee Smith's dainty wee crossed legs. That Aberdeen team seems a happy bunch.

[Jacksgranda]

13 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

I've been helping out the Falkirk Football Heritage Trust guys with some transcription, and I've been working on the years 1920 to 1928 so far. The club minutes surrounding the Puddefoot transfer (and believe me, a multitude of other topics) are absolutely amazing reading. A real glimpse into another world. They will be published online soonish, and I thoroughly recommend them to anyone with an interest in the history of the game, which is of course most of us regular dwellers on this thread.

Tommy Townsley in that photo was a great servant to the club as a ball playing centre half, and deserved a presumably much better paid move to Leeds in 1926 or so. He came back up the road a few years later and ended up managing Peterhead.

Aptly for the "Pals" series, William Moore (outside left from NI) was nicknamed "Pal".

I love wee Smith's dainty wee crossed legs. That Aberdeen team seems a happy bunch.

Thought that myself. Obviously didn't watch last night's match...

[HibeeJibee]

5 hours ago, Piquet said:

Don't you just love the Thistle v Alexandra report?  "one goal to the Thistle against a disputed goal to the Alexandra" 

Absolutely - it also gives us some echoes for 2 forgotten aspects of the sport.

Firstly until 1881 there was no referee, but instead 2 umpires... 1 from each club... who had to agree on decisions. (These became the linesmen when neutral referees were introduced).

Secondly in the earliest years there was was the concept of a 'rouge' or near-miss: a scoreline might be '2 goals & 1 rouge to 2 goals', rather like conversions & tries, with the 'rouges' effectively tiebreaking a draw.

Edited December 21, 2022 by HibeeJibee

[tamthebam]

3 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Absolutely - it also gives us some echoes for 2 forgotten aspects of the sport.

Firstly until 1881 there was no referee, but instead 2 umpires... 1 from each club... who had to agree on decisions. (These became the linesmen when neutral referees were introduced).

Secondly in the earliest years there was was the concept of a 'rouge' or near-miss: a scoreline might be '2 goals & 1 rouge to 2 goals', rather like conversions & tries, with the 'rouges' effectively tiebreaking a draw.

Bring it back to even up the next Edinburgh derby: Hibs 1 goal & 17 Rouges, Hearts 4 goals. Hibs win...

[tamthebam]

On 20/12/2022 at 21:05, HibeeJibee said:

Edinburgh Accies and Merchistonians being egg chasers rather than proper football clubs. However before Scottish clubs were banned an FA Cup tie between Queens Park and Nottingham Forest took place at Merchiston Castle School (roughly where Napier College in Colinton Road is now)

[shuggz]

In the Celtic pic, I notice a Crilly....Father Teds granda?

[Nowhereman]

22 hours ago, Specky Ginger said:

Found this on Pinterest.

All the best on your 150th anniversary this weekend.

Odd how I could easily name every player in that line up without the benefit of the note underneath the picture but I would struggle to name even twenty percent of players who have played for us over the last five years

[The Mantis]

Firs Park, 1992

[O'Kelly Isley III]

On 22/12/2022 at 14:19, Nowhereman said:

Odd how I could easily name every player in that line up without the benefit of the note underneath the picture but I would struggle to name even twenty percent of players who have played for us over the last five years

Aye, and I still find it amazing that the Second Division winning squad of the following season comprised something like 15 players in total at a time when our own and other pitches were in worse nick than today.

And I'm pretty sure that around the same time Leeds won the English League using only 14 players in total.

[Dundee Hibernian]

8 hours ago, The Mantis said:

Firs Park, 1992

I'm unsure what state the ground is in today, but not long after the 'Shire vacated the ground I visited. 

Pretty sad state it was in too.

Turnstile

Terrace

Main Stand

[Sergeant Wilson]

15 hours ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

I'm unsure what state the ground is in today, but not long after the 'Shire vacated the ground I visited. 

Pretty sad state it was in too.

Turnstile

Terrace

Main Stand

You should let Clyde know that's available.

[bluearmyfaction]

On 21/12/2022 at 20:32, HibeeJibee said:

Secondly in the earliest years there was was the concept of a 'rouge' or near-miss: a scoreline might be '2 goals & 1 rouge to 2 goals', rather like conversions & tries, with the 'rouges' effectively tiebreaking a draw.

The rouge was from the Eton Field Game, and adopted into the Sheffield rules in 1863; those had a 4 yards wide goal and flags a further 4 yards either side.   Very Aussie Rules.  (The cross-tape was 9 feet above the middle goals.)

 

Association had a touchdown rule as a tie-breaker for a brief period in 1866.   Evidently that was the set of rules Queen's Park had as they beat Hamilton Gymnasium in 1869 "by four goals and nine touches down".  They couldn't call them tries because they did not give the right to a shot at goal.  Until 1867 a rouge required a touchdown as well; for 1867-68 the ball just had to be within the rouge flags and below 9 feet; and then Sheffield abolished the rouge.  One reason why we play association rather than Sheffield is that Sheffield was changing the laws of the code far more than the FA did.

[cowdenbeath]

On 19/12/2022 at 00:56, HibeeJibee said:

Garry Kenneth got capped.

Twice.

Mind boggles.

He was on loan to us in 2007 and pretty crap amazing he won the Scottish Cup and played for Scotland a few years later.

[Eednud]

Football used to be played on Christmas Day and this is from one of 2 games played on this day in 1976 (2-2 att: 7,675). The other Alloa 2 Cowdenbeath 1 (731). Think this has been posted before but never mind as it’s a good way to wish all a Merry Christmas.

[SlipperyP]

going back a page, about cup finals played at a home pitch.

Were Celtic not using Hampden Park season 94-95, when they reached both the League Cup and Scottish Cup Final?

[Molotov]

6 hours ago, Eednud said:

Football used to be played on Christmas Day and this is from one of 2 games played on this day in 1976 (2-2 att: 7,675). The other Alloa 2 Cowdenbeath 1 (731). Think this has been posted before but never mind as it’s a good way to wish all a Merry Christmas.

I was at that game. It should really have been played on Boxing Day giving the amount of fighting between the supporters that day on the terraces.  

The Trouble
---
“It was a white Christmas with black stripes in Clydebank as seven thousand pilgrims from Paisley invaded the town to see their team St Mirren play the Bankies in the top of the table clash at Kilbowie.

Unfortunately not all the visitors brought festive good cheer with them. Trouble began half an hour before kick-off when hundreds of Saints fans charged like enraged bulls at the greatly outnumbered home supporters.

Several cans and bottles, not all of them empty, were thrown. Peace was restored relatively quickly and Clydebank Director Jack Steedman pleaded with the fans to behave themselves.

He said, “We have deliberately kept the police presence to a minimum, but if there is another hint of trouble we shall have to call in reinforcements."

Regrettably, the trouble flared up again during the match. After 25 minutes, Clydebank took the lead through Mike Larnach, and as the Bankies' fans celebrated, they were showered with bottles and cans thrown by the Paisley supporters,

As they scattered, the home fans were again chased by a wave of about 200 drink-crazed youths,

Running fights broke out, and fathers had to throw their young sons over the barrier and on to the playing surface to avoid the danger.

Referee Eddie Thomson, of Edinburgh, held up play for six minutes as order was restored, and extra police brought in from Glasgow's support unit.

Eleven arrests were made, and at least one youngster was carried from the arena on a stretcher. Clydebank's first aid boys were run off their feet tending to the many with cuts and bruises.

Again Jack Steedman pleaded over the loudspeaker for order to be restored. He said: “This is the first trouble we have had in 11 years of Senior football, and it's spoiling what should be a great occasion.”

Although there were a few more minor scuffles, no more major incidents occurred, and the match ended in a 2-2 draw,

Luckily the hooligans did not interrupt the pre-match festivities. Santa Claus led both sides on to the pitch and each player sported a giant letter above his head which all went together to spell "MERRY CHRISTMAS."

Each team manager, the linesmen and the referee were presented with gifts, and the players distributed plastic footballs among young boys in the crowd.

Most people had a great afternoon.

Nine of those arrested appeared at Dumbarton Sheriff Court on Monday charged with causing a breach of the peace. Six pleaded not guilty and will appear again for trial.”

I don’t believe the official attendance. It was jam packed.

From the Herald : 

"I was 15 at the time and still remember the game well," said Stevie McAneney, a Clydebank historian and now a director of the re-launched club. "The crowd was given as 10,000 but there were easily between 12,000 to 14,000 there.”

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13194710.recalling-christmas-day-football-clydebank-fergie-berating-linesman/

Match Report

This top of the table clash never reached its expected lofty heights. True, the pitch was treacherous as any you’ll see, but add to that the apparent look of disinterest of certain players and you don’t come up with a winning formula.

The teams were too scared of each other to play much positive football. It was very much cat and mouse stuff in the opening quarter, with the visitors having territorial advantage without threatening deputy keeper Roddy McKenzie.

A McDowell header from a Beckett free-kick flashed over the bar and a Hyslop effort from a Richardson cross slid just wide. Saints continued to look the better side, especially in midfield as Bankies surprisingly looked reluctant to come forward. Beckett and McDowell carved open a chance for McGarvey, but the winger shot into the side netting.

The home fans were growing restless as Bankies struggled to reach Hunter, but they were given hop in the 20th minute when Mike Larnach broke on the left. His cross was played on by Jim Fallon to Joe McCallan whose lob over Hunter looked a scorer all the way but faded just past.

In the 25th minute, however, it was smiles all the way on the Bankies' fans faces as the homesters took a shock lead. In their first sustained burst of pressure Callaghan moved the ball across the penalty area to Billy McColl, but when Johnston robbed the midfield man it seemed the danger was cleared. However, the full-back slipped the ball back to Hunter and Mike Larnach was there in a flash. Dragging the ball round the despairing keeper, Mike fired into the empty net to bring a sea of red and white to the terracing.

Before the shocked visitors had time to recover, Mike Larnach laid on a chance for Joe McCallan who shot only a fraction wide.

Then came the trouble as fans invaded the park to escape bottles and cans and the game was held up for six minutes.

On the restart some of the impetus had gone, with St. Mirren's early aggression now evaporating and just before the interval Bankies almost increased their lead. Davie Cooper beat two men and his shot from 20 yards was blocked by Hunter, who could not hold the ball. However, as Joe McCallan raced in for the kill, the keeper bravely dived at his feet to save his side.

Five minutes into the second half Bankies incredibly found themselves two goals up.

Cooper sent Lumsden clear on the right, but his cross beat everyone and looked to be going out of play. Joe McCallan had other ideas, however, and raced after the ball, caught it on the line and returned it into the middle. As the Buddies' defence hesitated, Kilbowie went wild as Billy McColl popped up from nowhere to stab the ball into the net.

St. Mirren probably couldn't believe that they had been so much on top and yet were two goals adrift, but a master stroke by Alex Ferguson had them back in the game within seven minutes.

His substitution of Torrance for McDowell was not too popular with some of the vast travelling support. However, with his first kick of the ball, the sub pulled one back. The home defence got themselves into a terrible tangle as McGarvey and Torrance ran at them and when the winger slipped the ball through, the sub, hammered a shot from 12 yards well out of McKenzie's reach.

This gave the Buddies new heart and they came at Bankies time and time again. It was surprising to see Bankies defending in depth and passing back to the keeper so often, one got the impression that they were giving the visitors just a little too much respect

St. Mirren did not need any favours, however, for, in the 72nd minute, they deservedly equalised. Richardson won a corner on the left and when the ball came over it was cleared only as far as Stark, standing 25 yards out. The big midfield man steadied himself, took a few paces forward, then, as half the Bankies team charged at him, he cracked the ball past the despairing McKenzie into the corner of the net.

Surprisingly after this, Bankies had the best chances to win, with Mike Larnach twice firing just wide, but in the dying seconds Hyslop broke through and it took two brilliant tackles by Norrie Hall and finally a finger-tip save by Roddy McKenzie to keep the ball out.

A draw was a fair result in a game that was exciting in patches, but never really lived up to expectations. It was disappointing that Bankies adopted such a defensive attitude, but a credit to St. Mirren that they forced the pace for much of the game.

[Specky Ginger]

2 hours ago, SlipperyP said:

going back a page, about cup finals played at a home pitch.

Were Celtic not using Hampden Park season 94-95, when they reached both the League Cup and Scottish Cup Final?

That's right.

When we played them in the League Cup Final it was moved to Ibrox, but when Airdrie played them in the Scottish Cup Final it was at Hampden.

I'm sure the authorities had some bizarre explanation along the lines of - because the league season had finished by the time of the Scottish Cup Final, it was no longer a home game for Celtic.