Moses Supposes Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Yes, I did know that, but there's something contradictory in what you're saying. McLeod is to be pilloried for overseeing such witless performances from such a strong squad, yet he's somehow also to be pilloried for pointing to said strength of squad. Very well. Then, just for the record I will state I believe it was perfectly reasonable for MacLeod to talk about the strength of his squad. It was not perfectly reasonable to bum them up as potential world champions and at the same time indulge the players, media (not that they needed much encouraging) and much of the nation in a feeding frenzy of unrealistic expectations and general nonsense that preceded the campaign rather than getting those players focused and tempered for the task ahead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Moses Supposes said: Very well. Then, just for the record I will state I believe it was perfectly reasonable for MacLeod to talk about the strength of his squad. It was not perfectly reasonable to bum them up as potential world champions and at the same time indulge the players, media (not that they needed much encouraging) and much of the nation in a feeding frenzy of unrealistic expectations and general nonsense that preceded the campaign rather than getting those players focused and tempered for the task ahead. Genuine question: Do you remember it all? I do, but as a primary school kid. There was actually lots to be said for how exciting it all was. There's no doubt with hindsight, that it set us up for the fall to be bloody steep when it all went wrong. We did have a real chance to do well in that tournament though. While the frenzy may now look a bit unbecoming, I'd maintain that it wasn't unrealistic. Did it contribute to the failure? I'm not sure to be honest. Willie Harkness and Lou Macari probably did make such contributions though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said: Genuine question: Do you remember it all? I do, but as a primary school kid. There was actually lots to be said for how exciting it all was. There's no doubt with hindsight, that it set us up for the fall to be bloody steep when it all went wrong. We did have a real chance to do well in that tournament though. While the frenzy may now look a bit unbecoming, I'd maintain that it wasn't unrealistic. Did it contribute to the failure? I'm not sure to be honest. Willie Harkness and Lou Macari probably did make such contributions though. I think he was totally unprepared for the football or the media reaction to a few throw away remarks. Attention was also heightened by England not qualifying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Just now, Sergeant Wilson said: I think he was totally unprepared for the football or the media reaction to a few throw away remarks. Attention was also heightened by England not qualifying. It was hugely heightened by that. As alluded to in McLeod's own report, papers sent news journalists as opposed to sports ones. He fell out with Trevor McDonald as news of Willie Johnston's failed drug test started to emerge. I'd still be inclined to defend him against charges of being a clown though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said: It was hugely heightened by that. As alluded to in McLeod's own report, papers sent news journalists as opposed to sports ones. He fell out with Trevor McDonald as news of Willie Johnston's failed drug test started to emerge. I'd still be inclined to defend him against charges of being a clown though. Probably, but he did enjoy and play up to it, never realising the consequences when the press turn . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Probably, but he did enjoy and play up to it, never realising the consequences when the press turn . True, but if it hadn't gone so disastrously wrong, they wouldn't have turned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 For a thread titled “A Photographic History Of Scottish Football” there’s been a dearth of photographs in the last few pages. I would like to contribute some, but don’t have the technological knowhow to help out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, kingjoey said: For a thread titled “A Photographic History Of Scottish Football” there’s been a dearth of photographs in the last few pages. I would like to contribute some, but don’t have the technological knowhow to help out. Here you go. Given there is snow behind the goals this could be the New Years day Aberdeen v Dundee game from 1963. Looking through "They Wore The Dark Blue" makes me sure it is. That's Ian Ure challenging and Bert Slater in goal and think the other Dundee player is George Ryden with the great Charlie Cooke, a Dundee player the following season. to his right. Finished 1-0 Aberdeen (Winchester) in front of 15,000 fans. Dons no. 11 is Lewis Thom according to the line-up on AFC Heritage site, he also followed the road and the miles the next season but to United. No idea who the player beside Ian Ure is. Happy New Year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddie Holly Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 was looking for a pic of ian in a saints strip but he wasnt there long enough to say cheese.st mirren paid a small fee for ure to save him the embarrassment of getting a free transfer. ures actuall name is john francombe ure.not a lot of people know that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resk Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Here you go. Given there is snow behind the goals this could be the New Years day Aberdeen v Dundee game from 1963. Looking through "They Wore The Dark Blue" makes me sure it is. That's Ian Ure challenging and Bert Slater in goal and think the other Dundee player is George Ryden with the great Charlie Cooke, a Dundee player the following season. to his right. Finished 1-0 Aberdeen (Winchester) in front of 15,000 fans. Dons no. 11 is Lewis Thom according to the line-up on AFC Heritage site, he also followed the road and the miles the next season but to United. No idea who the player beside Ian Ure is. Happy New Year.Great pic. Looks like Dundee defending a corner as there's a player on the post and the ref is standing on the goal line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moses Supposes Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 17 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Genuine question: Do you remember it all? I do, but as a primary school kid. There was actually lots to be said for how exciting it all was. There's no doubt with hindsight, that it set us up for the fall to be bloody steep when it all went wrong. We did have a real chance to do well in that tournament though. While the frenzy may now look a bit unbecoming, I'd maintain that it wasn't unrealistic. Did it contribute to the failure? I'm not sure to be honest. Willie Harkness and Lou Macari probably did make such contributions though. It's a fair question. And, of course, I don't remember it all by any means -- and I'm evidently a little older than you as I was at secondary school. It was a highly complex set of events and I have to acknowledge that my position on MacLeod and on the whole sorry affair as it is now has been completely coloured by what actually happened in Argentina and what came out in the wash after. MacLeod wasn't the only culprit but he was the principal one if only because he was swept up by the whole thing and just didn't have the facility to control events when they got out of hand. However, as someone else said this is a photography thread so I will close with a pic of Ally in happier times. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbrucerick Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 34 minutes ago, Moses Supposes said: It's a fair question. And, of course, I don't remember it all by any means -- and I'm evidently a little older than you as I was at secondary school. It was a highly complex set of events and I have to acknowledge that my position on MacLeod and on the whole sorry affair as it is now has been completely coloured by what actually happened in Argentina and what came out in the wash after. MacLeod wasn't the only culprit but he was the principal one if only because he was swept up by the whole thing and just didn't have the facility to control events when they got out of hand. However, as someone else said this is a photography thread so I will close with a pic of Ally in happier times. Here's another, during his third, and final spell at Ayr. Up until now my favourite time supporting Ayr. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I think with a wee bit of luck, that Scotland team could've went very deep in the tournament. But the early mistakes were so severe, and we paid the price. The Holland performance just shows how capable they were. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEd Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) Ally has a similar World Cup Finals record to Stein, a better record than Ferguson , Roxburgh and Brown. Hardly a clown. And what's wrong with a bit of hype and excitement? We could do with more characters like him these days. It should also remembered that Peru were the reigning Copa America champions at the time. Edited January 1, 2019 by RedEd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daydream Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 It should also remembered that Peru were the reigning Copa America champions at the time.How anybody thought we could ever beat the Copa America champions is beyond me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Daydream said: How anybody thought we could ever beat the Copa America champions is beyond me. Well we'd qualified by beating the European ones. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Didn't Scotland not bother scouting Peru? Our attitude seemed to just be arrogance, assuming that we were through before we had kicked a ball. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Didn't Scotland not bother scouting Peru? Our attitude seemed to just be arrogance, assuming that we were through before we had kicked a ball. Aye, I'm sure McLeod said something like "Culibas (sp?) is past it" thinking he was about 35 but he was actually only 29? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said: Didn't Scotland not bother scouting Peru? Our attitude seemed to just be arrogance, assuming that we were through before we had kicked a ball. Aye. It was noted in the documentary that they never bothered to scout them or Iran. Below is particularly telling (taken from a Telegraph article); How wide of the mark this assumption proved to be was signalled in a contemporary interview with MacLeod when he was asked why he had not personally watched any of Scotland’s group opponents, Peru, Iran or the Netherlands. The manager replied: “Basically, what I’ve decided to do is try and win the World Cup by preparing my own team to perfection.” The absence of awareness – or even interest – in opposition menace was flagged when the Scots’ goalkeeper, Alan Rough, asked MacLeod who took Peru’s free-kicks. “I’ve not noticed anybody,” was the response. This was ignorance at its most wilful and exposed the Scots to Teofilo Cubillas, the set-piece specialist of Peru's 1970 World Cup quarter-finalists and 1975 Copa America winners. Edited January 1, 2019 by DA Baracus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Also just noticed that the aforementioned BBC documentary on it all is now on Youtube. It's great and well worth a watch; 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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