A Photographic History Of Scottish Football

[Tibbermoresaint]

41 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Scotland wasn't bound by law to do so. We played a couple of seasons in the top division with terracing and only changed the stadium because of the new SPL and it's daft all seater rule.

Pretty sure other clubs used terracing in the top division before 1998 as well. Did Hibs not still have a stand that was terracing in 94? Falkirk and Partick still had terracing until they were relegated the following season. Raith had terracing until the end of 95/96. Pretty sure Motherwell played all of 94 with some terracing as well.

The clubs with terracing had it because of the exemptions I mentioned above.

Hibs and Hearts put bench seats on the terracing before building new stands.

[Monkey Tennis]

8 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

The clubs with terracing had it because of the exemptions I mentioned above.

Hibs and Hearts put bench seats on the terracing before building new stands.

Did Hearts and Hibs, not have daft wee bucket seats on poles, rather than benches?  Ponchos were also distributed in the rain I think.

[Brother Blades]

The Taylor report included a series of recommendations many of which came down to Taylor's personal opinions and preference. He states "It is obvious that sitting for the duration of the match is more comfortable than standing". Loads would disagree with that.
Even then it concluded that standing was not unsafe but recommended that grounds be all seater, claiming to have some stats that showed 'two thirds support' for this. Given how many folk stand at games even in all seater grounds I doubt the validity.
The Football Spectators Act was pushed through in 1989 and said all football grounds should be all seated. This was nothing to do with 'safety' given that the Taylor Report said standing wasn't unsafe but all to do with the ongoing assault on the working class from the Tories. It was relaxed in 1992 for the tiers below Tier 2 in England. The law never covered Scotland. It has never been a legal requirement in Scotland to have all seater grounds for football games.
The Taylor Report should have been laughed out of the conversation. It was a massive overraction in the most part to Hillsborough. No doubt some changes were needed, like limiting capacity, removing fences and ensuring there are sufficient exits for supporters. But the Taylor Report went way over the top and football jumped on it as they knew they could rip fans off for it.
The Taylor Report said some sensible things, but also a load of fucking garbage. The all seater recommendation was the worst, but other suggestions showed how little he understood football, such as;
- family sections were fans of both clubs sit together 
- painting all concourses and gangways yellow
- have stewards give a pre-match demonstration of where the exits are, similar to what air stewards do before a plane takes off 
- asks that clubs consider having moats in front of stands to stop fans getting on to the pitch
- fans must sign up to be part of a scheme to be able to get a ticket to an away game
 
The report was mostly a bag of shite. The government played on the public emotion over Hillsborough to try and attack the working class and the footballing authorities were on board as they saw the profits they could make. 
But it was never law in Scotland, and the 'profits' would never materialise due to our fan distribution, not to mention the ludicrous insistence of the 10k seater rule. Where did they pull that bullshit figure from? It was never feasible for the vast majority of clubs.
 
Ultimately we have all seater grounds because one guy who wrote a report prefers to sit.
This is why the term 'safe standing' really annoys me, and why I'm amazed so many folk don't question it. It's a nonsense term, because the report literally states that standing isn't unsafe. 'Safe standing' is another con, no doubt brought to you by the same folk who pushed for all seater stadia. 

Whilst I agree with most of what you say, there are a couple of points I’d like to raise.

1. It would be fucking hilarious watching the jumped up arseholes (in the main), who are stewards trying to demonstrate the escape routes. Especially funny if clubs had adopted the moat suggestion & the stewards also had to demonstrate the donning of life jackets in the event of an emergency.
2. You deride the report as stating it “should have been laughed out of the conversation” then use the report to back up your claim that standing is safe. There are plenty other examples of standing at huge events being pretty safe?

[Tibbermoresaint]

8 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Did Hearts and Hibs, not have daft wee bucket seats on poles, rather than benches?  Ponchos were also distributed in the rain I think.

Yes, I was paraphrasing. 

Easter Road. Doesn't that look like fun?

Edited December 9, 2018 by Tibbermoresaint
Add pic

[Monkey Tennis]

12 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

12 hours ago, IrishBhoy said:

After Hillsborough and the new stadium regulations, how long did clubs have to get their stadiums up to the new standards? Did any Scottish clubs struggle by spending money on seats/new stands to the detriment of the team? 
My first Scottish game was 95 so I have been to Brockville, Kilbowie, Methil and a few other stadiums that aren’t here any more, but most of the bigger stadiums were all seater by that point. 

I'm pretty sure the Taylor Report only applied to the English clubs. Pittodrie and Kilbowie were already all-seated (albeit using bench seats/bleachers) and Ibrox was getting modernised by Murray with his Steel company using it as a prestige project and to generate more income but there was no need to go all-seated until the SPL brought in their own 10,000 seat rule. Celtic and Rangers in particular would have needed to have made changes for European games but not til by the turn of the century or thereabouts. St Johnstone built the first new ground of the post Hillsborough era but they could have had terracing had they wanted to until the advent of the SPL.

The timeline is a bit mangled here.

As pointed out, the rebuilding of Ibrox in terms of providing seats, long predated Hillsborough, Taylor or Murray.

The enclosure in front of the main stand would need seats, but that's all.  The rest was all in place already.  The changes involving the club deck and corners were voluntary and relatively minor.

It's also misleading to see McDiarmid as post-Hillsborough.  In terms of when it opened, yes it came soon after the Hillsborough disaster.  It certainly wasn't built in response to it though.  Indeed a feature on the new ground and the advanced stage of the building work, was on Saint and Greavsie just a couple of hours before the disaster unfolded.

[Monkey Tennis]

11 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Yes, I was paraphrasing. 

Easter Road. Doesn't that look like fun?

These wee seats do seem to be mounted on bench type things right enough.  Was it Tynecastle that had individual poles for each seat, or have I made that up?

[DA Baracus]

22 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:

Whilst I agree with most of what you say, there are a couple of points I’d like to raise.

1. It would be fucking hilarious watching the jumped up arseholes (in the main), who are stewards trying to demonstrate the escape routes. Especially funny if clubs had adopted the moat suggestion & the stewards also had to demonstrate the donning of life jackets in the event of an emergency.
2. You deride the report as stating it “should have been laughed out of the conversation” then use the report to back up your claim that standing is safe. There are plenty other examples of standing at huge events being pretty safe?

Re point 2, I suppose you do have a point. But I feel it's worth pointing out that the report itself stated that standing isn't unsafe (as if such a thing needed pointed out!). Hillsborough was always going to happen due to the police attitudes to fans and the clubs' shite ground design features. But banning terracing and insisting on all seater grounds was a massive over reaction and not the answer.

11 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The timeline is a bit mangled here.

As pointed out, the rebuilding of Ibrox in terms of providing seats, long predated Hillsborough, Taylor or Murray.

The enclosure in front of the main stand would need seats, but that's all.  The rest was all in place already.  The changes involving the club deck and corners were voluntary and relatively minor.

It's also misleading to see McDiarmid as post-Hillsborough.  In terms of when it opened, yes it came soon after the Hillsborough disaster.  It certainly wasn't built in response to it though.  Indeed a feature on the new ground and the advanced stage of the building work, was on Saint and Greavsie just a couple of hours before the disaster unfolded.

The Taylor Report even has a section on McDiarmid as it uses that ground as an example.

[Old Pack]

Saints v Hearts at Muirton , I think it’s 1983.

Sandy Jardine on the left , John Brogan on the right.

Who’s the Saints player in the middle ?

Could it be Alex Caldwell ?

 

[7-2]

I can't remember the exact situation but Saints had to have that space between the pitch and stands so that an ambulance could drive round it which would surely have been Taylor Report enforced.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

Yes, I was paraphrasing. 
Easter Road. Doesn't that look like fun?

Falkirk visiting that day.

[7-2]

1 minute ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

On 09/12/2018 at 13:15, Tibbermoresaint said:

Yes, I was paraphrasing. 
Easter Road. Doesn't that look like fun?

Falkirk visiting that day.

I see Hibs were ahead of their time and issued the away plastic macs in the same colours as the  team's strip. 

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 hour ago, Old Pack said:

Saints v Hearts at Muirton , I think it’s 1983.

Sandy Jardine on the left , John Brogan on the right.

Who’s the Saints player in the middle ?

Could it be Alex Caldwell ?

 

Ray Blair?

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 hour ago, 7-2 said:

I can't remember the exact situation but Saints had to have that space between the pitch and stands so that an ambulance could drive round it which would surely have been Taylor Report enforced.

No, the Taylor Report wasn't published until after McDiarmid opened.

What people forget now is that McD was designed in the wake of the Bradford fire. One of the lessons from that tragedy was that having access for emergency vehicles into the ground was vital. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Tibbermoresaint
Grammar

[7-2]

1 hour ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

No, the Taylor Report wasn't published until after McDiarmid opened.

What people forget now is that McD was designed in the wake of the Bradford fire. One of the lessons from that tragedy was that having access for emergency vehicles into the ground was vital. 

Ah, of course.

[The Mantis]

Are there actually any stadiums where there isn't some kind of access, even just for tractors etc to maintain the pitch?

[Flybhoy]

Hearts squad, sometime in the 1970's running round the pitch at Tynecastle in their full strips, as you do.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

4 minutes ago, Flybhoy said:

Hearts squad, sometime in the 1970's running round the pitch at Tynecastle in their full strips, as you do.

One of my heroes, Malcolm Robertson with the moustache.

[Flybhoy]

1 minute ago, Tynierose said:

And an advert in the background for the pink news, as a boy I used to be desperate to get my copy on a Saturday night to find out all the scores from around the country.  Changed days.

My dad used to bring home the early edition of the Evening Times Pink  from the pub sometimes on a Saturday night, the match reports were clearly phoned in bit by bit, you would have about 400 words on the first half and about one paragraph on the second, usually a brief description of any goals scored and the goalscorer and time, in the days before the internet, streams, mass live matches etc this was the first information available about that days big matches and newspapers were clearly desperate to get some sort of publication out on the streets on a Saturday night. 

 

Being a Glasgow based paper it heavily focused on Rangers and Celtic , the first one I recall and kept was after we clinched the title v Dundee in the 1988 centenary season. 

[Jacksgranda]

22 minutes ago, Tynierose said:

And an advert in the background for the pink news, as a boy I used to be desperate to get my copy on a Saturday night to find out all the scores from around the country.  Changed days.

The Green Final for me.

[Eednud]

Sporting Post for me. Part of my paper round was delivering the final edition of the Post on Saturday nights. Had to be at the newsagents for about quarter past six from memory but sometimes they didn’t turn up until 7pm. Even had to deliver them one Christmas Day.

There was another Glasgow paper which was green and a broadsheet. Was it called the Citizen?