A Photographic History Of Scottish Football

[bluearmyfaction]

On 07/03/2023 at 12:35, House Bartender said:

Very Glasgow. Corporation Transport had to feature both Green and Orange so both sets of supporters could happily use the service.

And the football team had green shirts, white shorts, and orange socks.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

A pre-match scene from Boghead Park in season 1971/72 with a healthy-looking crowd reflecting our (successful) Division Two title challenge (note however the minks climbing over the Silverton End fence in the background).  The structure in the background to the right was the DFC Social Club, which was previously the workers' canteen during the construction of the Forth Road Bridge.  It was spotted lying in a field by our enterprising Chairman Robert Robertson and was picked up for a song, as it should have been as it was basically reworked railway carriages.  Happy days. 

[Ewanandmoreagain]

On 07/03/2023 at 23:11, Dundee Hibernian said:

Billy Liddell.

Born just north of Dunfermline in Townhill, Liddell signed for Liverpool aged 16 in 1938. He had been recommended to the Anfield club by Matt Busby, and only played for that one senior team for his entire career. Excluding an excellent wartime record, he scored 228 goals in 534 matches for his club.

He also netted 8 International goals for Scotland, 11 including wartime.

After a long career, he retired in 1961.

 

LFC became Liddellpool.

because he was so good for them

 

 

 

 

 

[Piquet]

The Scottish team that beat England 1-0 at Old Trafford in 1926. 

 

Credit:  From the League Magazine 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Piquet
Added photo, removed link.

[Boghead ranter]

10 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

A pre-match scene from Boghead Park in season 1971/72 with a healthy-looking crowd reflecting our (successful) Division Two title challenge (note however the minks climbing over the Silverton End fence in the background).  The structure in the background to the right was the DFC Social Club, which was previously the workers' canteen during the construction of the Forth Road Bridge.  It was spotted lying in a field by our enterprising Chairman Robert Robertson and was picked up for a song, as it should have been as it was basically reworked railway carriages.  Happy days. 

Poor @Silverton End

[Dundee Hibernian]

On 08/03/2023 at 08:40, jagfox said:

Ranger in a strange land...also sacrificed a goat before a game over in Turkey, i think?

Didn't he have to shag a goat to get into Ibrox?

[Dundee Hibernian]

Just under 40 years ago, Dundee United scored two late goals, bith from Paul Sturrock, to beat Rangers 3-1 at Tannadice.

Before the match I watched in amazement as several away fans queued wearing full kit, socks and all, to get in to the match.

And this photograph shows some of these adults behind the goal as Sturrock celebrates a goal. Credit to them, this was a cold April day with a strong whirl of wind continuously threatening patterns of play.

The Girvan Lighthouse watches the ball in the net, while Dave McKinnon waits to congratulate Davie Dodds on his part in the goal.

[Silverton End]

3 hours ago, Boghead ranter said:

Poor @Silverton End

 

[jagfox]

Not always where i would like them to go though...

[Specky Ginger]

2 hours ago, jagfox said:

Not always where i would like them to go though...

McKechnie the butcher is still on the go yet, albeit they merged to create McKechnie Jess a good few years ago.

[jagfox]

The Dandy Dons with the 1976 League Cup. I love those old Admiral strips.

[Dirty Sanchez]

There's a nondescript patch of grass behind the away end at St Mirren Park that wasn't touched when the stadium was built.

This was because it contains human remains, namely those of the former landowner James Logan, who lived in a long demolished mansion on the site, that predates any other building in the area by donkey's years.

The nondescript patch of grass was once a memorial garden to Logan, who died in the 1840s, featuring a fenced off monument incorporating his lead coffin. The mansion and gardens originally backed on to woodland, and it was only in the 1930s, when the council bought the land, that the housing estate was built up around the gardens. It was in Logan's will that the gardens should be maintained and accessible.

I have a relative who claims to have been an eyewitness to some coffin material being brought up while local street urchins were...erm...'playing' on the monument in the 1960s, which caused a bit of consternation at the time. I've had that story corroborated elsewhere, and it was stuff like that which lead to the demise of the gardens and monument. There's only a slab still remaining where the monument used to be, but Logan's body was never removed.

The two entrances to the car park are the entrances to the two streets that were formerly there, the bottom one being Logan Drive, named after our man. The footprint of Logan Drive runs right down the centre of the pitch, from end to end.

[RawB93]

On 07/03/2023 at 12:35, House Bartender said:

Very Glasgow. Corporation Transport had to feature both Green and Orange so both sets of supporters could happily use the service.

 

On 07/03/2023 at 16:52, Otis Blue said:

... but ... isn't the livery Green, White and Gold ...?  Can't imagine the "Teddies" getting on one of those.

I thought this as well, especially after considering they switched to full Proddy Orange thereafter.

But apparently it's all a mix up...

An urban myth has even arisen that the shifting colour schemes were the result of the city's buses changing hands from Catholic to Protestant ownership. This notion, however, is unfounded.

In the 1985 book, Strathclyde (British Transport Executives), author Alan Millar writes that the decision to label the new orange and black livery Strathclyde Red was indeed "to allay sectarian suspicion".

But, while there was awareness that the colour change could prove controversial, a former coach builder claims it had been chosen in part to avoid using recognised Glasgow football colours, such as green or blue, whilst also matching the livery of the subway trains, which were already orange-red.

George Colvan served at Larkfield bus works as a coach builder at the time of the colour change.

He told us that the managers of the buses at that time were English and there had been an element of naivety on their part when deciding which colours to go with.

However, he doesn't think there was any sectarian motive behind their decision.

He said: "I was fortunate to work on some of the buses when they were testing the new livery.

"There were English managers. When it was mentioned not to use green or blue, a few members of the committee were unaware of the potential controversy surrounding the colour orange.

"This was the irony, I don't believe there was any sectarian undertones, just that the people making the decision did not fully understand it."

 

So it was just to match the Subway. Though I can't find any info on why the Subway changed to orange during 1970s modernisation, having been much more red until then - 

[RawB93]

40 minutes ago, Dirty Sanchez said:

There's a nondescript patch of grass behind the away end at St Mirren Park that wasn't touched when the stadium was built.

This was because it contains human remains, namely those of the former landowner James Logan, who lived in a long demolished mansion on the site, that predates any other building in the area by donkey's years.

The nondescript patch of grass was once a memorial garden to Logan, who died in the 1840s, featuring a fenced off monument incorporating his lead coffin. The mansion and gardens originally backed on to woodland, and it was only in the 1930s, when the council bought the land, that the housing estate was built up around the gardens. It was in Logan's will that the gardens should be maintained and accessible.

I have a relative who claims to have been an eyewitness to some coffin material being brought up while local street urchins were...erm...'playing' on the monument in the 1960s, which caused a bit of consternation at the time. I've had that story corroborated elsewhere, and it was stuff like that which lead to the demise of the gardens and monument. There's only a slab still remaining where the monument used to be, but Logan's body was never removed.

The two entrances to the car park are the entrances to the two streets that were formerly there, the bottom one being Logan Drive, named after our man. The footprint of Logan Drive runs right down the centre of the pitch, from end to end.

I've looked on old OS maps but the mansion and indeed his death seem to predate any I can find. Annoyingly, it seems to be just outwith the boundaries of relevance in the one detailed map from near that time I did find - 

Basically I was trying to work out how there were houses built on this land and then knocked down, with the burial preserved? So I thought you must have meant the monument in the landscaped garden in the background, but that seems to be something else altogether. As a side note - shame that's gone too! Mansion Park has a nice ring to it and would have made a fine Main Stand facade/directors entrance.

[Otis Blue]

6 minutes ago, RawB93 said:

 

I thought this as well, especially after considering they switched to full Proddy Orange thereafter.

But apparently it's all a mix up...

An urban myth has even arisen that the shifting colour schemes were the result of the city's buses changing hands from Catholic to Protestant ownership. This notion, however, is unfounded.

In the 1985 book, Strathclyde (British Transport Executives), author Alan Millar writes that the decision to label the new orange and black livery Strathclyde Red was indeed "to allay sectarian suspicion".

But, while there was awareness that the colour change could prove controversial, a former coach builder claims it had been chosen in part to avoid using recognised Glasgow football colours, such as green or blue, whilst also matching the livery of the subway trains, which were already orange-red.

George Colvan served at Larkfield bus works as a coach builder at the time of the colour change.

He told us that the managers of the buses at that time were English and there had been an element of naivety on their part when deciding which colours to go with.

However, he doesn't think there was any sectarian motive behind their decision.

He said: "I was fortunate to work on some of the buses when they were testing the new livery.

"There were English managers. When it was mentioned not to use green or blue, a few members of the committee were unaware of the potential controversy surrounding the colour orange.

"This was the irony, I don't believe there was any sectarian undertones, just that the people making the decision did not fully understand it."

 

So it was just to match the Subway. Though I can't find any info on why the Subway changed to orange during 1970s modernisation, having been much more red until then - 

Interesting detail there @RawB93, cheers.

I had been sure that the Glasgow buses during my student days in the 70s were green, white and gold (not orange), but my memory is rubbish tbf.

You would have thought that if some of the corporation management were not local (eg English) at the time of the colour changes then there would have been plenty of locals around to advise on the potential pitfalls of the proposed colour schemes ... after all Weegies are not known for being shy with their views!

[Dirty Sanchez]

19 minutes ago, RawB93 said:

I've looked on old OS maps but the mansion and indeed his death seem to predate any I can find. Annoyingly, it seems to be just outwith the boundaries of relevance in the one detailed map from near that time I did find - 

Basically I was trying to work out how there were houses built on this land and then knocked down, with the burial preserved? So I thought you must have meant the monument in the landscaped garden in the background, but that seems to be something else altogether. As a side note - shame that's gone too! Mansion Park has a nice ring to it and would have made a fine Main Stand facade/directors entrance.

 

Yes, the Logan burial is at the monument in the background. Here's the mansion and monument superimposed on the current view.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Dirty Sanchez

[Dundee Hibernian]

7 hours ago, Dirty Sanchez said:

The nondescript patch of grass was once a memorial garden to Logan, who died in the 1840s, featuring a fenced off monument incorporating his lead coffin.

Great information, I love stories such as this.

That lead coffin sound slike a mortsafe, there's a fine example in the National Museum of Scotland inscribed 'Airth 1831'. These were utilised to deter body snatchers.

[Oscar P]

Firs Park

 

[LongTimeLurker]

Any idea what year that was? The first division season in the early 60s maybe? Think by the mid-60s there was a small enclosure at the far end from the Firs Street turnstiles from a video clip I have seen of the first game back after the ES Clydebank season. Is that the social club behind the enclosure? Doesn't look like how I remember it but it's been a while. Vaguely remember there being old turnstiles beside that in the late 70s but that part of the ground was all overgrown and out of use by then.

[casinobay]

Not sure whether these are of interest but I have a couple of my great, great papas Motherwell player match letters from 1901. Don't know much about him, but from the MotherWELLnet site it looks like he played with Motherwell 4 times. 

Got a few more of these from his time with Hibs too around 1902/03, as well as the contracts he signed with them and his official player ID card. Let me know if you'd like them posted.